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Old Mar 30, 2012, 03:12 PM   #26
manu chao
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Originally Posted by androiphone View Post
should have just stuck a '3G' sticker over the '4G' logo and be done with it.

literally no-one in the world would have cared if it was called the 'WiFi+3G' outside north america.
Except that some people outside of North America would have asked themselves whether the US model was a different one since the US model was called WiFi + 4G, whereas the European model was only called WiFi + 3G.

Marketing wireless capabilities is simply a mess, not least because 4G means something different to almost everybody. I am not sure what can be legally called 4G, but if there is enough of a consensus that regulatory bodies (and ultimately the courts), that is what you have to stick to stay clear of trouble.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 03:13 PM   #27
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According to Seeking Alpha. "the new iPad is not compatible with 4G networks in Australia, Europe, and the Middle East". They quote a Wall Street Journal article without a link. Anyone know if this is accurate?
Well if they are having problems in other places then its possible they are not compatible with iPad or each other this is such a fractions technology way to much marketing and no standard.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 03:14 PM   #28
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Wirelessly posted

It's so frustrating to see Americans who have no idea about anything that happens outside of the US talk like they have an idea. Only an American could be stupid enough to believe that the US is the centre of the universe.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 03:15 PM   #29
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Whether "4G" is a proper tech spec or not is trivia for anal-obsessive techies. Most people don't care. It doesn't matter. It's a marketing term.

There's a very simple common sense rule to apply: If the device doesn't work with the local phone networks that are called "4G", don't advertise the device as "4G-compatible" in that country. They don't care if it works with the "4G" network in some other country, because they don't live there. If the Freedonia Phone Company has a wireless network they call "SuperMagic" (also not a rigorously technical term), then don't advertise your device as "SuperMagic-compatible" in Freedonia. It's no different from bragging "used by the Prime Minister" in the advertising for your product in Canada, when the "Prime Minister" who uses it is the one in the UK: it's going to be misunderstood, and it's reckless - perhaps even misleading - marketing.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 03:20 PM   #30
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That's how consumer protection should work.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 03:21 PM   #31
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Before Apple had 4G in their devices:

"Apple sucks, only isheep buy their outdate devices. My Evo's got 4G you noobs are all buying old hardware"

After Apple had 4G in their devices

"Apples full of BS, their 4G only works in certain countries, whats the point of adding it??"

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Old Mar 30, 2012, 03:27 PM   #32
manu chao
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Originally Posted by JAQ View Post
There's a very simple common sense rule to apply: If the device doesn't work with the local phone networks that are called "4G", don't advertise the device as "4G-compatible" in that country.
In Germany, the big telcos just stay clear of the term '4G'. The talk about 3G, 3G+, and LTE or if they are more specific about GSM (which means GRPS), EDGE, UMTS, HSDPA, HSPA+, LTE.

http://netmap.vodafone.de/CoKart/index.html

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Old Mar 30, 2012, 03:33 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by GSPice View Post
Did any US customers in EDGE-only areas sue when the iPhone/iPad was advertised with 3G capability?
No, but there was grousing about the original iPhone's lack of 3G support in those same areas, and there were later complaints from people who didn't learn that there was no 3G service in their area until after they bought a 3G phone. Most people don't really understand that wireless technobabble. They just expect things to work as advertised.

A better analogy in this case would be if in some parts of the US AT&T had their "3G" network on a different frequency, such that the iPhone 3G didn't work there. Damn right there'd be complaints and charges of misleading advertising in those areas.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 03:34 PM   #34
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Apple should just rename the model to "new iPad Wifi + Cellular" and be done with it.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 03:37 PM   #35
JAQ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manu chao View Post
In Germany, the big telcos just stay clear of the term '4G'. The talk about 3G, 3G+, and LTE or if they are more specific about GSM (which means GRPS), EDGE, UMTS, HSDPA, HSPA+, LTE.
So substitute "LTE" in the above comments. Same common sense principle.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 03:48 PM   #36
manu chao
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Originally Posted by JAQ View Post
So substitute "LTE" in the above comments. Same common sense principle.
Yeah, but the funny thing is that if you call something 4G in Germany, nobody can complain because 4G is only applicable to networks labelled as such and in Germany there are none. It is about the same as advertising CDMA capabilities.

Last edited by manu chao; Mar 30, 2012 at 04:16 PM.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 03:49 PM   #37
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the 4Gee is a LIE !!

US networks rebranded their 3G networks as "4Gee"

4G

is 100mbps mobile and 1gbps stationary

only available in SK Telecom and NTTDoCoMo

Apple better fix this ad campaign
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 04:01 PM   #38
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I'm pretty sure that Apple is referring to HSPA+, outside of the US and Canada. I don't see the problem. 4G doesn't really have a definition at this point.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 04:03 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
Much ado about almost nothing. Apple will make the changes to its websites and marketing materials, and move on. For the vast majority of customers outside the US and Canada, lack of LTE is not that big a deal since their 3G HSPA+ networks are very good. It's still a boost from the iPad 2, as well.

Complaints like this occur all the time, and marketing materials are fixed. If it weren't Apple chances are it wouldn't be getting much press.
Too bad that Apple needs to change the model name of their product to comply, changing marketing material is not enough. "iPad 4G (not compatible with your local 4G)".

I'm not Australian, but I've understood that there's no plans to implement 4G on the frequencies the new iPad supports, so the current material is still unacceptable. They should state "not compatible with current or future Australian 4G networks". Now it leaves the impression that there might at some point be compatible 4G network.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 04:09 PM   #40
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Fine, call it 3G+ then and be done with it. The new iPad supports up to LTE 4G in Canada and the US and up to 3G+ elsewhere.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 04:36 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by whis View Post
Wirelessly posted

It's so frustrating to see Americans who have no idea about anything that happens outside of the US talk like they have an idea. Only an American could be stupid enough to believe that the US is the centre of the universe.
Classy.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 04:50 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by whis View Post
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It's so frustrating to see Americans who have no idea about anything that happens outside of the US talk like they have an idea. Only an American could be stupid enough to believe that the US is the centre of the universe.
From a Brit....shut up.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 04:55 PM   #43
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this is good. lesson learned. hopefully.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 04:55 PM   #44
KPOM
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Originally Posted by sjo View Post
I'm not Australian, but I've understood that there's no plans to implement 4G on the frequencies the new iPad supports, so the current material is still unacceptable. They should state "not compatible with current or future Australian 4G networks". Now it leaves the impression that there might at some point be compatible 4G network.
Not necessarily. Phones advertise their world band capabilities, even though they may not be necessary or beneficial to all buyers. I think the regulator in Australia was comfortable with changing the marketing materials. Perhaps Apple could have called it the "iPad Wi-Fi + Wireless." In any case, it is referred to as that only on the website. The back of the product itself just says "iPad" along with the size of the storage.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 04:58 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Core4 View Post
According to Seeking Alpha. "the new iPad is not compatible with 4G networks in Australia, Europe, and the Middle East". They quote a Wall Street Journal article without a link. Anyone know if this is accurate?
The correct definition of the problem would be "the new iPad is only compatible with US and Canadian 4G networks, not with the rest of the world's 4G networks", but that would make Apple look bad, or somethin'.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 05:06 PM   #46
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Wirelessly posted

The crying sissys get their way!!!!
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 05:09 PM   #47
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The crying sissys get their way!!!!
Whats wrong with wanting 4G if it is advertised?
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 05:18 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Dragado View Post
I'm pretty sure that Apple is referring to HSPA+, outside of the US and Canada.
Unfortunately, outside of the US and Canada, HSPA+ is pretty consistently called 3G while 4G almost always means LTE or WiMax. See for example this page from the UK telecoms regulator Ofcom.

Also, Apple doesn't define HSPA+ as 4G: the original wording on the Apple UK website was:

The new iPad supports fast mobile networks around the world.* On a 4G network, you can download content, stream video and browse the web at amazing speeds. And if you’re in a location without a 4G network, you’ll still get access to fast 3G networks including HSPA, HSPA+ and DC-HSDPA.

* 4G coverage is not available in all areas and varies by carrier. See your carrier for details.

... which was what it said on http://www.apple.com/uk/ipad/4g/ until a week or so ago, but it has changed at least twice since (now just refers to ultra-fast mobile networks, which is fair enough).

The problem is/was that 4G LTE networks are being planned in the UK and discussed in the mass media, and already exist in some other EU countries, so "iPad with 4G" sounded like good future-proofing, even where it wasn't yet available. You needed techie knowledge to work out from the Apple ads that it wasn't ever going to be 4G in any country that didn't play World Series Baseball.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 05:45 PM   #49
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Bollocks

People should be smart enough to know what services are available in their communities. Regardless of branding, this is just nonsense to hit Apple. If you're dumb enough to buy something without clearly knowing your areas capabilities, then it's on you. If you're also dumb enough to buy a 4G device knowing there is no 4G in your service area (yet or ever) then how is that Apples fault? 4G is a marketing ploy for every company using it and cell providers are piranhas, nobody is making them force truth in advertising. I wouldn't change the branding, I would pull the sales of the iPad in those counties and tell them to piss off. I'd be out of business and obviously that's why I don't own a multi-billion dollar company, but whatever, it's my opinion eh. Soon as they fix this, another series of BS will crop up and continue to spread like wildfire. Give them an inch, they'll take whatever they can get.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus-k View Post
Whats wrong with wanting 4G if it is advertised?
Apple has a 4G capable device. If you're in a 4G market, you get 4G on your capable device. Apple never said that if you buy the new iPad, you will magically get 4G on your carrier regardless what their cellular product is. Now, if they had said "Buy this and your crap service turns into gold..." then yea, I'm with you. I never had any expectation that my iPad was going to be blazing fast on my POS Verizon network. It's not that much better for day to day activities than 3G was, but that's not Apples fault. It's like buying a Ferrari and blaming the company because the local municipality won't raise the speed limit.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 06:15 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Sardonick007 View Post
Apple has a 4G capable device. If you're in a 4G market, you get 4G on your capable device.
Except you won't ever get 4G on your 4G Apple capable device outside of North America. Which is what the problem is and the reason Apple are getting bitch slapped left, right and centre.
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