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Old Apr 24, 2012, 03:52 PM   #126
jlnr
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If anyone is looking for client-side encryption for at least _some_ files, I like the combo of Dropbox & BoxProtect (free) - it's pretty much an encrypted file system in your Dropbox, not sure how it handles sync problems though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yadmonkey View Post
1. Ten years from now, if all of your passwords are still the same, then you deserve to be hacked.

2. Do you really think somebody is going to devote all of those resources over a 10+ year period to hack your database? Seems to me they'd have to have a REALLY good reason.
That is not how it works, computers get faster. In 10 years, if I find some old encrypted data of yours, it might just take me a minute to decrypt it. The contents may still be current enough to sabotage whatever career you're going after.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 03:52 PM   #127
tonytiger13
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As much as I use Google, it does sometimes freak me out in this capitalist country that a company seems to offer so many great services for free. Maybe just paranoia or maybe they'll one day pull the rug out from under us all.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 03:53 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yadmonkey View Post
1. Ten years from now, if all of your passwords are still the same, then you deserve to be hacked.
You make a good point here. That's one of the benefits of having a password manager - frequently changing passwords should be a simple exercise (since you don't have to remember them anyway).

Quote:
Originally Posted by yadmonkey View Post
2. Do you really think somebody is going to devote all of those resources over a 10+ year period to hack your database? Seems to me they'd have to have a REALLY good reason.
That's actually not what I'm saying. My point is processing technology can conceivably (and most likely will) outstrip even the strongest of encryption methods over time - so what takes a century to break now could be done in hours or maybe even minutes or less say a decade from now. Granted this is all hypothetical but not beyond the realm of possibility.

Ergo, there's no excuse for sloppy systems.

I think it makes sense to implement security at every level possible. What business does one app have being able to read the contents of another without permission from that app or the user? It's a flaw.

Lastly, DropBox has had security issues in the past. No reason to say they won't get hacked in the future.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 03:54 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesr19 View Post
LOL - According to the terms, Google owns and reserves the right to use EVERYTHING on your Google Drive!

http://cl.ly/1W2h1A163p0W2A3C0M0q


Have fun having your info taken


via @sydlawrence
I normally don't care a whole lot about my privacy online, but that is just too far.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 03:55 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
That's absolutely ridiculous; "evil" does not even come close to what Google determines through these open-ended "permissions"...to create "derivative works" out of my OWN FILES? Are they effing crazy?
That's from Google's general TOS, not a policy specific to Google Drive. I would assume it's for things that are publicly published like Youtube, Google+, or discussion groups (I assume a similar policy is in place here), but they really need to clarify with specific GD TOS so people know exactly what's going on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Xultar View Post
How can it be Dropbox be crap or it is their fault that the people you let share the folder don't know shared drive etiquette and to copy the file instead of dragging it?
If dropbox doesn't have the option to give specific people read only access to a file or folder, I'd say that's a big problem that they need to fix.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 03:56 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iapplelove View Post
F google
Quote:
Originally Posted by wikus View Post
Why?
Pavlovian reflex to anything not Apple.
What would you expect from iapplelovers? Magic.
And scary.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 03:57 PM   #132
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Wow, offline access to files is really the worse around.

You need to use Chrome (it stores the files somewhere deep in the browser - great) and then it only offers offline viewing (not editing).

Even then viewing only works for those documents you recently edited and only documents and spreadsheets (not presentations, etc).

Ony works for one account too.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 03:57 PM   #133
tonytiger13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heart Break Kid View Post
Hmm. Im seriously considering it. My iPhoto library is getting to be around 60gb. That's 1/2 my SSD HD space. This may offer a reasonable solution, and make the need for frequent backups irrelevant
I meant to say No access during internet outage.

Anyways, if you don't mind your iPhoto library to be local, buy a NAS (Network Attached Storage). Buy one that has RAID for faster access speeds. Seeing how you have an SSD, you might hate going back to the slow norm.

You can access NAS's from off-site using VPN or similar (Apple's Airports allow such access), but again, it's going to be slow unless you have 20Mb/s + internet on both ends, and even then it'll slow down considerably.

Sorry to the rest of the MacRumors posters for being off topic here!
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 04:01 PM   #134
cammonro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesr19 View Post
LOL - According to the terms, Google owns and reserves the right to use EVERYTHING on your Google Drive!

http://cl.ly/1W2h1A163p0W2A3C0M0q


Have fun having your info taken


via @sydlawrence
Wow if that's not self-serving legalese I don't know what is. Well at least they're being honest about their intent. No Google Drive for me thank you very much!
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 04:03 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Legalese always makes things sound worse than what it actually is. That's basically a "hey, if someone takes one of the files you've posted online through a Google account, and uses it for some incredibly awkward Sonic The Hedgehog fanfiction, you can't sue us over it" clause.
Sorry but you don't have to lecture me about what a "derivative work" is - I deal with these issues every day as part of my job.

Besides, Google states THEY would have the right to create such works out of your OWN files, which is unacceptable...it has nothing to do with a simple waiver of liability.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 04:04 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesr19 View Post
LOL - According to the terms, Google owns and reserves the right to use EVERYTHING on your Google Drive!

http://cl.ly/1W2h1A163p0W2A3C0M0q


Have fun having your info taken


via @sydlawrence
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmoney468 View Post
This is in the fine print for Google Drive, makes you think twice about it:

Image
Looks familiar...

iCloud TOS
http://www.apple.com/legal/icloud/en/terms.html
Quote:
Except for material we may license to you, Apple does not claim ownership of the materials and/or Content you submit or make available on the Service. However, by submitting or posting such Content on areas of the Service that are accessible by the public or other users with whom you consent to share such Content, you grant Apple a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, publicly perform and publicly display such Content on the Service solely for the purpose for which such Content was submitted or made available, without any compensation or obligation to you.
All storage service providers have similar clauses.

Here are SkyDrive's terms. (Covered under Windows Live TOS.)
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...vice-agreement

Quote:
Except for material that we license to you, we don't claim ownership of the content you provide on the service. Your content remains your content. We also don't control, verify, or endorse the content that you and others make available on the service.
You control who may access your content. If you share content in public areas of the service or in shared areas available to others you've chosen, then you agree that anyone you've shared content with may use that content. When you give others access to your content on the service, you grant them free, nonexclusive permission to use, reproduce, distribute, display, transmit, and communicate to the public the content solely in connection with the service and other products and services made available by Microsoft. If you don't want others to have those rights, don't use the service to share your content.
You understand that Microsoft may need, and you hereby grant Microsoft the right, to use, modify, adapt, reproduce, distribute, and display content posted on the service solely to the extent necessary to provide the service.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 04:06 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadwalrus View Post
and when they create derivative works by indexing / sorting those files -- two of the exact things this service hopes to accomplish.

I'm not saying Google is acting like a choir boy, but your hyperbole is clearly what is ridiculous here.
Sorry, but if you understand a "derivative work" as a mere re-sorting of unchanged files, you definitely need to go back to law school - they are explicitly talking about "translations", "adaptations" and the like, for obvious purposes of privacy snooping and extensive advertising.

In other words, Google's self-appointed rights are nothing short of absurd to any reasonable lawyer...and this is why I WON'T use it. You are free to do as you wish, of course.

Edit: not even Apple's TOS for iCloud are that bad - they would also be able to adapt content submitted to iCloud, but "solely for the purpose for which such Content was submitted or made available" and limited to areas "accessible to the public" or your friends.

Last edited by 50548; Apr 24, 2012 at 04:12 PM.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 04:06 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonytiger13 View Post
As much as I use Google, it does sometimes freak me out in this capitalist country that a company seems to offer so many great services for free. Maybe just paranoia or maybe they'll one day pull the rug out from under us all.
First they gave me a free search engine

And I didn't speak out because because I wanted to find stuff on the internet

Then they offered up a nice email service

And I didn't speak out because I could get my email from anywhere because it was all web based

Then they offered up a nice browser.

And I didn't speak out because it was fast and had a nice, minimalist design.

Then they came for me.

And I couldn't speak out because there was really no reason to considering everyone already knew everything about me because all those nice free services they offered was really a front for marketing analytics so they could target advertise directly to me when they send me to the Google Work Camps.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 04:07 PM   #139
VenusianSky
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A little late to the cloud storage game, but I guess better late then never (not that I will ever use it).

I would like to see FREE cloud services hosting. Give me storage, a VM and a database, for FREE!

I guess cloud services hosting is only Microsoft and Amazon's game, and certainly not free. I wish I could sign up for the 6 month trial of Windows Azure without providing billing information. Obviously, I am joking about the free hosting BTW.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 04:09 PM   #140
milo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
In other words, Google's self-appointed rights are nothing short of absurd to any reasonable lawyer.
And yet, as just pointed out, they're very similar to the terms that MS and Apple use for their cloud services.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 04:09 PM   #141
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Apple should give MobileMeh and iCloud to Dropbox and then buy Dropbox.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 04:10 PM   #142
cammonro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjohnstone View Post
All storage service providers have similar clauses.
No actually it's not the same - the key differentiator in the iCloud TOS being "Content on areas of the Service that are accessible by the public". Google makes no such distinction.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 04:11 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by milo View Post
And yet, as just pointed out, they're very similar to the terms that MS and Apple use for their cloud services.
See my edit above.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 04:14 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by VenusianSky View Post
A little late to the cloud storage game, but I guess better late then never.

I would like to see FREE cloud services hosting. Give me storage, a VM and a database, for FREE!

I guess cloud services hosting is only Microsoft and Amazon's game, and certainly not free. I wish I could sign up for the 6 month trial of Windows Azure without providing billing information.
Nothing is free.
You will pay for it in $$$ or your information.

As for Google being late to the cloud storage party... hardly.
YouTube (cloud for video), Google Docs (cloud for documents), Picasa (cloud for pics).
It's all merging into one service. Although I don't see YouTube going away anytime soon.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 04:14 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Squashy View Post
People used iDisk?
Yup and we enjoyed it too. But I'm not sad anymore to see it go away because there are plenty of better choices now.

---

With all these new cloud services Apple seems to be looking more chintzy every day. Only Drop Box (which I use) comes with less free storage, but it gives you plenty of opportunities to bump up to 5GB and beyond.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 04:17 PM   #146
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Too little too late

It's the Google+ of cloud services, which is fitting since you'll ony be able to share files with Google+ users... (but even that isn't working yet)

Stick to asteroid mining and sci-fi glasses, Google.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 04:19 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjohnstone View Post
Nothing is free.
You will pay for it in $$$ or your information.

As for Google being late to the cloud storage party... hardly.
YouTube (cloud for video), Google Docs (cloud for documents), Picasa (cloud for pics).
It's all merging into one service. Although I don't see YouTube going away anytime soon.
The free I was referring to was about Cloud services hosting (like Windows Azure and Amazon EC2), not Cloud services (iCloud, Live, Youtube, etc). I was also joking about the hosting being free, BTW. That stuff costs serious money on the backend.
The only reason I mention Cloud hosting is because Google is a big company and I wouldn't be surprised if they try to enter that market.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 04:19 PM   #148
milo
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Originally Posted by cammonro View Post
No actually it's not the same - the key differentiator in the iCloud TOS being "Content on areas of the Service that are accessible by the public". Google makes no such distinction.
But you're missing something else - the bit that keeps getting posted over and over is Google's general TOS, not a TOS specifically for GD. And the general TOS also specifically says that individual services can have policies that are different from the general TOS. There's no GD specific TOS yet but I suspect we'll see one soon enough and that it will clarify that GD files aren't available to the public unless the user sets them that way.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 04:19 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by cammonro View Post
No actually it's not the same - the key differentiator in the iCloud TOS being "Content on areas of the Service that are accessible by the public". Google makes no such distinction.
Finish the sentence.... or or other users with whom you consent to share such Content...
Once it's up there, Apple knows you will share it with at least one person.
Once that's done, they assume the additional use.
Quote:
you grant Apple a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, publicly perform and publicly display such Content on the Service solely for the purpose for which such Content was submitted or made available, without any compensation or obligation to you.
The proper use of the word "or" can be a very effective legal term.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 04:21 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by rjohnstone View Post
Finish the sentence.... or or other users with whom you consent to share such Content...
Once it's up there, Apple knows you will share it with at least one person.
Once that's done, they assume the additional use.

The proper use of the word "or" can be a very effective legal term.
AGAIN: "...solely for the purpose for which such Content was submitted or made available."

This is the key provision that makes Apple's TOS way different from Google's.

Besides, it's perfectly possible for anyone to use iCloud WITHOUT sharing it with any other person. I'd definitely be one of them.
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