Macbook Air 2012 - LG vs Samsung LCD

I have a Samsung display in my MBP, i will be buying my wife a MBA in january for our anniversary (she is still using an Inspiron laptop with a pentium processor) I really hope hers has a samsung display. I agree 100% with the OP, Samsung makes the best displays that is why every LCD television i have ever owned has been made by Samsung.

I think this thread is verification that:

a) display 'quality' is subjective
b) placebo effect is real

I have (as stated earlier) and AU Optronics display. Just lined it up with my friend's 2011 MacBook Pro. The display on my MacBook Air is significantly crisper and defined. That's my best of way of explaining it. We all have different perceptions, and I consider this display to be solid.

bizack said:

I think this thread is verification that:

a) display 'quality' is subjective
b) placebo effect is real

I have (as stated earlier) and AU Optronics display. Just lined it up with my friend's 2011 MacBook Pro. The display on my MacBook Air is significantly crisper and defined. That's my best of way of explaining it. We all have different perceptions, and I consider this display to be solid.

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good point. my point was even if you want a samsung display and return a LG or AU there is no guarantee that the next one will be a samsung. how can it be worth taking that chance?

I disagree about it being subjective -- There's no doubt about it, the Macbook Air does not have a wide gamut screen, and photo quality will look worse than a Macbook Pro, or iMac or Cinema display.

The screen has a very high ppi compared to all other mac products except the new retina MBP, which would make it look "sharp", but even the best samsung screens still have a gamut much smaller than sRGB.

If you are using it for surfing the web, playing some simple games, or writing emails -- it's fine. If you are trying to look at high resolution photos, or do any sort of editing ... MB Air simply isn't for you.

That said, it's still my favorite machine for MOST tasks.

winterny said:

I disagree about it being subjective -- There's no doubt about it, the Macbook Air does not have a wide gamut screen, and photo quality will look worse than a Macbook Pro, or iMac or Cinema display.

The screen has a very high ppi compared to all other mac products except the new retina MBP, which would make it look "sharp", but even the best samsung screens still have a gamut much smaller than sRGB.

If you are using it for surfing the web, playing some simple games, or writing emails -- it's fine. If you are trying to look at high resolution photos, or do any sort of editing ... MB Air simply isn't for you.

That said, it's still my favorite machine for MOST tasks.

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I agree that the quality difference between the MBA's and MBP's screens is obvious, the difference between the MBA screens? Not so much.

bizack said:

I think this thread is verification that:

a) display 'quality' is subjective
b) placebo effect is real

I have (as stated earlier) and AU Optronics display. Just lined it up with my friend's 2011 MacBook Pro. The display on my MacBook Air is significantly crisper and defined. That's my best of way of explaining it. We all have different perceptions, and I consider this display to be solid.

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I don't think it is subjective as you think. That is, I believe there is consistency among humans eyesight. Then; given these consistent parameters, there does exist (from majority agreement) a "better" display.

We could also take a colorimeter and measure the gamut on these panels. From the images taken alone here, I could about bet that the samsung does have a higher gamut. This of course means that the panel can display more colors, and from that, there are more accurate colors when it comes to what we are capable of seeing ourselves in the real world. I would imagine that anyone right in their mind would prefer to get as much of those colors on a screen - not have them stripped away from their photos, for example. This is again based on my assumption that our eyesight is consistent. Or more specifically, that the colors we are capable of viewing is similar. But even with variance among our eyesight, a screen can still look better than another with consistency given just the property that "they", who ever it is, will still perceive more color - if they are capable of seeing it.

Also, when you say crisper, I assume you are referring to pixel density. The Air does have a higher pixel density than the standard Pro screens. But here, I believe we are mainly talking about gamut. At least, a lower gamut would produce the "more washed out" appearance that seems to be the primary discussion.

My AUO screen is not bad, it is just that it angers me a bit to know that getting a slightly better display (by gamut) is a gamble. The default AUO calibration profile that I had, however, was terrible. I believe if the panel factories (or apple) provided better profiles then less would complain, but it definitely does not do much for gamut.

winterny said:

I disagree about it being subjective -- There's no doubt about it, the Macbook Air does not have a wide gamut screen, and photo quality will look worse than a Macbook Pro, or iMac or Cinema display.

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That comes as a bit of surprise to me. I often read that the display of the MBA is better that the one of the 13" MBP. Mostly because the 13" MBA has a higher resolution. Both are TN-panels. Why should the 13" MBP better than the 13" MBA?

mayuka said:

That comes as a bit of surprise to me. I often read that the display of the MBA is better that the one of the 13" MBP. Mostly because the 13" MBA has a higher resolution. Both are TN-panels. Why should the 13" MBP better than the 13" MBA?

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the color accuracy on the pro's make them look better

mayuka said:

That comes as a bit of surprise to me. I often read that the display of the MBA is better that the one of the 13" MBP. Mostly because the 13" MBA has a higher resolution. Both are TN-panels. Why should the 13" MBP better than the 13" MBA?

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The (Samsung) display on my 2012 13" MBA looks sharper and more pleasing in the eye than that on my early-2008 15" MBP, probably due to the higher pixel density (same 1440x900 resolution, but smaller screen), though I understand (from others, I've not noticed, but am not a professional photographer or similar) that the colour accuracy/range is meant to be better on the MBPs

It's always fun to watch people try and answer a subjective question with an objective answer.

mattopotamus said:

the color accuracy on the pro's make them look better

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Do you really think so? I find both displays equally bad in terms of accuracy. Especially when it comes to viewing angle. Maybe people have the impression colors are more pronounced on MBPs because of the MBP's "lossier" screen. Nowhere I found a decent comparison between both Pro and Air series.

Hichisky said:

I don't think it is subjective as you think. That is, I believe there is consistency among humans eyesight.

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Given the fact that about 70 to 75% of the male population is colour blind to some extent and lots of people wear glasses or are even blind it is very safe to say that there is no consistency among humans eyesight. The colour blindness also shows that how something looks can be very subjective as well as the fact that not everybody knows their colours (there are many sorts of greens, blues, etc., which version does one mean)?

We could also take a colorimeter and measure the gamut on these panels.

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That would be the only thing how you can tell. A colorimeter is much better in being consistent than we humans are.

I think I'll be calibrating my display (it's an LG) because a light greenish colour on a website now looks more like light grey with a very very small hint of green in it. See what happens after calibration.

mayuka said:

Nowhere I found a decent comparison between both Pro and Air series.

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Here are two images from a swedish article comparing the 2011 Air and Pro screens (even though it's not english it should be pretty self-explanatory). Measured with both a x-rite eye-one Pro and Klein K10:





As you can see, the Pro matches the sRGB color space a LOT better, and also the deviation from standard colors (bar diagram) shows the Pro to be a lot better than the Air.

This is for 2011 though, and I don't know what screen (samsung / LG), but still I'd assume the Pro screens are better.

bizack said:

I think this thread is verification that:

a) display 'quality' is subjective
b) placebo effect is real

I have (as stated earlier) and AU Optronics display. Just lined it up with my friend's 2011 MacBook Pro. The display on my MacBook Air is significantly crisper and defined. That's my best of way of explaining it. We all have different perceptions, and I consider this display to be solid.

Click to expand...

Except what you viewed would be caused by the higher screen resolution rather than the a "better" screen on the air. Compare air to air.

I have no personal experience against another air, but i think there might be something to what everyone is saying. Perhaps it's like response time on monitors where some people notice ghosting and others don't.

asting said:

Except what you viewed would be caused by the higher screen resolution rather than the a "better" screen on the air. Compare air to air.

I have no personal experience against another air, but i think there might be something to what everyone is saying. Perhaps it's like response time on monitors where some people notice ghosting and others don't.

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it is definitely not a placebo like that other poster said...it is real, and it is noticeable.

B116XW05 V6 <- my screen model

And, there are multiple metrics for a screen good.

Pixel density -- how many pixels there are per square inch.
iPhone 4/4S > iPad 3 > Retina Macbook Pro > MacBook Air 11 > Every other mac

Color Gamut.
This is the range of colors the screen can actually produce.
Cinema Display > Macbook Pro > iPad 3 > everything else apple makes > Macbook Air > iPhone 3GS

Contrast.
This is the ratio of how dark blacks are, and how bright whites are.
Not really sure where the Macbook Air comes off the top of my head on this one, but if you read the 2011 review of the Macbook Air on anandtech, you'll get a pretty good idea.

Basically, Macbook air has the second highest pixel density of any mac screen -- which is very good. It also has the worst gamut of any mac screen -- which is very bad.

Stingray454 said:

Here are two images from a swedish article comparing the 2011 Air and Pro screens (even though it's not english it should be pretty self-explanatory).

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That surprises me because both use TN-panels. Can you provide the link?

Very interesting discussion taking place. I still haven't been to the Apple store with my AUO screen but I'm finding perverse comfort in the talk that all MBA screens aren't that great anyway (in terms of professional image editing).

So is it fair to conclude that MBA screens:

• * Are good compared with other notebook screens
  * Are not great compared with standalone monitors
  * Show some variance between different MBA screen manufacturers
  * To a lesser extent show variance even between screens of the same manufacturer?

Or would anyone go further?

mattopotamus said:

it is definitely not a placebo like that other poster said...it is real, and it is noticeable.

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I'm not suggesting it is. Reread what i said.

asting said:

I'm not suggesting it is. Reread what i said.

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i was referring to the post that you quoted by bizack

mayuka said:

That surprises me because both use TN-panels. Can you provide the link?

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The article is here, though it compares air vs pro overall, so not that deep look onto the screens. But feel free to check it out for more info (you'll probably need google translate if you're not swedish).

dyn said:

Given the fact that about 70 to 75% of the male population is colour blind to some extent and lots of people wear glasses or are even blind it is very safe to say that there is no consistency among humans eyesight. The colour blindness also shows that how something looks can be very subjective as well as the fact that not everybody knows their colours (there are many sorts of greens, blues, etc., which version does one mean)?


That would be the only thing how you can tell. A colorimeter is much better in being consistent than we humans are.

I think I'll be calibrating my display (it's an LG) because a light greenish colour on a website now looks more like light grey with a very very small hint of green in it. See what happens after calibration.

Click to expand...

Given that this is true, I would have to take it into consideration. Thanks. However, what about one display looking better than the other regardless of this variance? That is, doesn't it seem that there is a definite direction to what is better, regardless of this possible variance? I see the variance being important when it comes to attempting to compare what one sees to another, but when it comes to what one sees alone, is not the panel with more colors better? In other words, I am questioning the agreement between eyesight and what a colorimeter would read. To me, it would seem they both point in the same direction. Does that make any sense?

Good luck with the calibration, though I definitely recommend the use of hardware. I have wasted a lot of time with the software in OSX and SuperCal.

kodeman53 said:

It's always fun to watch people try and answer a subjective question with an objective answer.

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Given a survey asking for which screen looks better:
The Macbook Air
The Macbook Pro

Would you expect it to be 50-50? The difference between these two panels is larger, but I think it gets my point through that there are likely defined directions to what makes a better panel.

Foot in mouth. After using the calib file for AUO that was posted, I immediately saw banding on every single piece of scrollable content. Took it to the Apple Store and swapped for a new one. Now have Samsung Display and Samsung SSD.

bizack said:

Foot in mouth. After using the calib file for AUO that was posted, I immediately saw banding on every single piece of scrollable content. Took it to the Apple Store and swapped for a new one. Now have Samsung Display and Samsung SSD.

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Do you notice any immediate difference between the AUO and Samsung panels?

Hichisky said:

However, what about one display looking better than the other regardless of this variance?

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Depends on the person: what they say and whether they like it or not. Some people like more darker pictures while others like brighter ones. Same for colour temperature: some like cool, some like hot (cool can be too blueish, hotter looks more white; the other way around: hot looks yellowish, blue looks more white).

In other words, I am questioning the agreement between eyesight and what a colorimeter would read. To me, it would seem they both point in the same direction. Does that make any sense?

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It is very good to question because there simply is a whole lot more to it. It is about what you see, it's about what you like, it is about the entire production process up to the quality control and it is about the technology used (aka TN). The problem with LCDs is that they are quite complex to create with a consistent quality. Even today there will be noticeable differences in the same batch. That alone makes it quite hard to say a certain brand is better than the other. It can because brands can create panels within the specs that they designed. If they want the panel to have a higher colour temperature they can do so and you'll see it across the board.

What the colorimeter does at least is take out the subjectiveness of the individual. It doesn't favour a particular colour, or colour temperature. It just sees what it sees.

Good luck with the calibration, though I definitely recommend the use of hardware. I have wasted a lot of time with the software in OSX and SuperCal.

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That is why I'm using a colorimeter with its software for this Calibration went ok. Seemed that the colour temperature was a bit too cool as well. The colour on that website is now green, not grey with a greenish tint to it.

Given a survey asking for which screen looks better:
The Macbook Air
The Macbook Pro

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That would be a rather difficult survey because of all the possibilities. With the Pro you have various screen sizes as well as glossy vs antiglare and normal resolution vs high resolution. That is more like comparing every car there is and picking the best one out of the lot.