Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:49 PM   #1
MacRumors
macrumors bot
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Scott Forstall Reportedly Forced Out of Apple




Earlier this evening, Apple announced a major change up in their executive management. Most notably, Apple Senior Vice President of iOS Software Scott Forstall will be leaving. Forstall moved over to an advisory role effective immediately, and will ultimately depart Apple in 2013.

As Senior Vice President of iOS Software, Scott Forstall has been a prominent public figure at Apple. He was originally recruited to NeXT, Inc. after college and came to Apple with Steve Jobs after Apple's acquisition of NeXT in 1996. He has been on stage numerous times during Apple keynotes to demo the latest iOS features. Forstall was even profiled as Apple's CEO-in-Waiting back in January. That article, however, was a not always flattering look at the executive who reportedly had many clashes with others at Apple.

More recently, there was described to be an internal political divide in Apple about the use of skeuomorphism, the inclusion of certain ornamental elements in a product that are carried over from previous tools addressing the same task for which the elements were required for functionality.
Quote:
According to the report, Apple's iOS chief Scott Forstall has long been a proponent of incorporating skeuomorphic features in the company's software, with Steve Jobs having supported and even originated that design direction for Apple's products. But others such as hardware guru Jonathan Ive find the inclusion of such features distasteful, and Apple's designers have reportedly been divided into camps over which direction to take Apple's products.
In light of the shakeup, Jonathan Ive is now taking over Apple's Human Interface teams.

DaringFireball's John Gruber believes that Forstall was forced out of Apple:
Quote:
Forstall is not walking away; he was pushed. Potential factors that worked against Forstall: his design taste, engineering management, abrasive style, and the whole iOS 6 Maps thing. I also wonder how much Forstall was effectively protected by his close relationship with Steve Jobs -- protection which, obviously, no longer exists.
Inside Apple author Adam Lashinsky agrees with that sentiment and also cites the Apple Maps issue as a reason for his demise:
Quote:
I also heard that Forstall refused to sign the letter apologizing for the mapping fiasco, sealing his fate at Apple.
Lashinsky is referring to a public apology posted by Apple CEO Tim Cook about iOS 6's Maps. The Map app in iOS 6 replaced Google Maps with Apple's own proprietary solution. After a significant amount of criticism after iOS 6's launch, Cook wrote an open letter apologizing to customers about not meeting expectations.

Update: The Wall Street Journal confirms a similar story with their sources.
Quote:
In deciding how to manage the crisis, Mr. Forstall argued that the company could address the outcry without apologizing, as Apple had done when it shipped iPhones with faulty antennas a few years ago, one of these people said. Mr. Cook and others disagreed, these people said. Mr. Cook signed his name to the apology instead.
The article also reiterates that Forstall clashed with others at Apple. One source even said he was difficult to work with and "never fit into the culture of Apple".

Update 2: NYTimes also has a similar story:
Quote:
A senior Apple employee who asked not to be named said Mr. Forstall had also incurred the ire of other executives after inserting himself into product development that went beyond his role at the company. One person in touch with Apple executives said the mood of people at the company was largely positive about Mr. Forstall's departure.
Article Link: Scott Forstall Reportedly Forced Out of Apple
MacRumors is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:50 PM   #2
gmanist1000
macrumors 68020
 
gmanist1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Who thinks Google hires him?
gmanist1000 is offline   48 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:51 PM   #3
Zwhaler
macrumors Demi-God
 
Zwhaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
I was pretty shocked by this announcement, but in hindsight it really isn't that surprising, nonetheless I'll be buying an Andriod device after using iPhone for 4 years :S thanks Forstall!
Zwhaler is offline   22 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:52 PM   #4
Pakaku
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Skeumorphism is a good thing: It makes you appreciate good design
Pakaku is offline   39 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:52 PM   #5
hanksmith
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
We won't miss ya!

Sir Ive, we are all excited for what you'll have for us in iOS 7
hanksmith is offline   87 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:52 PM   #6
sbrhwkp3
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lake George, NY
I don't think Steve would have apologized about Maps, either.

I think he would have fiercely defended it and stated why it's way far beyond anything google maps was at its inception and that it's only going to get better.

My guess is Forstall felt the same way.

Either way, I'm looking forward to Ive UIs.

Last edited by sbrhwkp3; Oct 30, 2012 at 12:07 AM.
sbrhwkp3 is offline   79 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:52 PM   #7
ouimetnick
macrumors 68020
 
ouimetnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Beverly, Massachusetts
Send a message via AIM to ouimetnick Send a message via Yahoo to ouimetnick Send a message via Skype™ to ouimetnick
I actually liked his keynotes.

Besides from that, sure he had issues with the UI, but what about the code that us under the UI. Maybe they could keep him for the coding, and have Ive do the UI design? A waste of time was how the volume slider and time slider change reflection when the phone is moved.

He also seemed overly excited about small things too.
__________________
ACMT
MacBook Pro 13" (Mid 2010) 2.4GHz C2D, 4GB RAM, 750GB HD; Mac Pro Mid 2007; various MacBooks; Power Mac G5; iPhone 4s; iPhone 5s
ouimetnick is offline   8 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:52 PM   #8
parapup
macrumors 65816
 
parapup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmanist1000 View Post
Who thinks Google hires him?
Ugh. No. There will be mass exodus from Android after skeumorphic widgets, launcher shelf etc gets released in Android 5.0.
__________________
MBA(2013) ; ThinkPad x220; Galaxy Note II; Note 10.1 2014 Edition
parapup is offline   8 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:54 PM   #9
balamw
Moderator
 
balamw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New England, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmanist1000 View Post
Who thinks Google hires him?
My guess is he still has a non-compete in place that would prevent him from working in the same field for a direct competitor for a while. He'll probably do something more like Tony Fadell. Work on something completely different for a while like Nest.

B
__________________
MBA (13" 1.7 GHz 128GB), UMBP (15" SD 2.8 GHz), UMB (13" 2.4 GHz), iMac (17" Yonah), 32GB iPad 3 WiFi+LTE, 64 GB iPad WiFi, 32 GB iPhone 5, Airport Extreme
balamw is offline   9 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:55 PM   #10
sphoenix
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Steve Jobs would have fired him sooner
sphoenix is offline   8 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:55 PM   #11
reputationZed
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: 34°55′42″N 80°44′41″W (34.928201, -80.744835)
Hopefully skeuomorphism gets kicked to the curb.
__________________
But you and I, we’ve been through that,
And this is not our fate. - Dylan 1968
reputationZed is offline   62 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:57 PM   #12
Bathplug
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Now they can get rid of the crap colour changing status bar in ios 6.
Bathplug is offline   32 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:57 PM   #13
steveOooo
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: (UK) Hampshire / London
Finally, the vomit-tastic mess that is Game Center. / podcasts can be rectified...

Lost count the amount of times I've thought to my self 'wtf is this' when game centre forces itself on you like jimmy s
steveOooo is offline   39 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:58 PM   #14
erhock89
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Hmm.

I am definitely happy that John Browett left. But Forstall, not so much. Yes, I do hate the old fashioned calendar, but how do we know as the public that Forstall hadn't been part of more than just the design of those specific apps?

I feel like forcing someone out for doing a job that Steve Jobs wanted them to do is not something that Apple should do.

Just my thoughts...
erhock89 is offline   40 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:58 PM   #15
The Phazer
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbrhwkp3 View Post
I don't think Steve would have apologized about Maps, either.
He certainly would have tried that. And then he would have apologised after it made things worse.

Just as happened with Antennagate.
The Phazer is offline   9 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:58 PM   #16
Apple...
macrumors 68020
 
Apple...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The United States
Adios! Goodbye! Au revoir!
Apple... is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:58 PM   #17
ouimetnick
macrumors 68020
 
ouimetnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Beverly, Massachusetts
Send a message via AIM to ouimetnick Send a message via Yahoo to ouimetnick Send a message via Skype™ to ouimetnick
Quote:
Originally Posted by sphoenix View Post
Steve Jobs would have fired him sooner
Steve sided with Scott. Steve supported skeuomorphism. If anything, Scott would still have his Job is Steve was here.
__________________
ACMT
MacBook Pro 13" (Mid 2010) 2.4GHz C2D, 4GB RAM, 750GB HD; Mac Pro Mid 2007; various MacBooks; Power Mac G5; iPhone 4s; iPhone 5s
ouimetnick is offline   52 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:59 PM   #18
patientzerobeat
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Today I learned that there's a word for what I absolutely HATED about some computer UI design: Skeuomorphic. That this scourge can be identified by name, and that a large proponent of it at Apple has been fired, gives me great optimism about the future of Apple software.

Like most things, a tiny bit of it is OK (like having a little picture of a metronome in the metronome button in Logic), but it's gotten way out of hand (not so much in Logic though).
patientzerobeat is offline   31 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:59 PM   #19
koban4max
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanksmith View Post
We won't miss ya!

Sir Ive, we are all excited for what you'll have for us in iOS 7
Whhaaatt? you can't be serious. What makes you think Ive can do make a better ios? Did he have any background in that area?
koban4max is offline   20 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:59 PM   #20
jyen
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Let's not forget that Steve Jobs was forced out of Apple before too.

Perhaps we'll see the second coming of Scott Forstall?
jyen is offline   80 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 09:00 PM   #21
lannisters4life
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sydney
Great news. Ive is Apple.
lannisters4life is offline   50 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 09:00 PM   #22
rei101
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Sorry, but the Maps issue is something to blame on a quality control process drive by the Project Managers, not a single person.

There should be quality control points in productions and reports.
rei101 is offline   14 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 09:00 PM   #23
CausticPuppy
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanksmith View Post
We won't miss ya!

Sir Ive, we are all excited for what you'll have for us in iOS 7
Realistically iOS 8 before we see any major changes.
__________________
2011 Mac Mini Server, 16 GB RAM, 256GB Crucial M4 SSD, 500GB HDD + 3TB NAS
Haswell rMBP 13" - i7/512GB
Mac Mini 1.83GHz Core2Duo, 3GB RAM, 60GB SSD
iPad Air/iPhone5S
CausticPuppy is offline   12 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 09:00 PM   #24
appleguy123
macrumors 603
 
appleguy123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: 15 minutes in the future
I actually liked him. He was weird in the keynotes, but you could really tell that he loved the products.
__________________
[Steve Jobs was] brave enough to think differently, bold enough to believe he could change the world, and talented enough to do it. -Barack Obama
appleguy123 is offline   52 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 09:03 PM   #25
RoelJuun
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Netherlands
I think we'll here less 'it is THE best way to…' during the coming keynotes.
RoelJuun is offline   6 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Scott Forstall, CEO of Apple Inc. Fondaparinux Apple, Industry and Internet Discussion 5 Sep 11, 2013 12:57 AM
Should Scott Forstall have stayed at Apple? gadget123 iOS 7 61 Jun 9, 2013 07:51 PM
Bob Mansfield's Return to Apple Reportedly Influenced by Scott Forstall's Departure MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 157 Nov 5, 2012 11:30 AM
Does Apple Have a Scott Forstall a problem? [MERGED] TheReadyPrompt iOS 6 228 Nov 2, 2012 08:11 PM
Scott Forstall is Leaving Apple gmanist1000 iOS 6 11 Oct 29, 2012 05:17 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:58 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC