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Old Oct 31, 2012, 01:36 PM   #26
Object-X
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Os xi

This is such a significant seed change. For all the complaints Siri and Maps get, one thing that seems to be absent is how significant both these technologies are to Apple's future. I think it was well understood by management that neither would be ready for prime time and both need to be used before they will become better; so I find the idea that Forstall was removed for not signing an apology interesting. It may well have been a strategical move by Tim Cook to get rid of him. But Cue is the guy, because Siri and Maps are services, like iCloud, iTunes, and App Store.

So, along those lines, Johnathan Ive is not just going to standardize OS X UI, he's going to reinvent OS X. OS 11 (or is it OS XI?) will be the OS re-imagined. Tim needed to get Forstall out of the way if they were successfully going to collaborate to produce the next generation OS. A common refrain lately is what will be Tim Cook's first innovate contribution post-Jobs. I think we just witnessed the beginning of it. OS XI will be Apple's next big thing. It will be a tight synthesis of hardware, software, and services.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 01:36 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by east85 View Post
The company didn't fall behind the curb and managed to implement a cloud that was more useful for the average person and geared towards convenience. Just look at how iOS and OS X have integrated the cloud to make your life that much easier. Whether that's genius to you or not, that's your own call. I'm pretty impressed personally.
fair enough.

i hope he does well with siri and maps because both are awful from my experience.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 01:37 PM   #28
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thanks. now i get it



into what exactly?

i see the disaster that was mobileme but the not the huge success of icloud
You need to look into iCloud more. Try breaking your iPad sometime. Go to the Apple Store, pick up a new one, and it's "your iPad" again in less than the time it takes to drive home.

You don't hear much about it being a "huge success" because it is designed to stay in the background and "just work". It goes unnoticed - after awhile you just think "Well, of *course* that document I was working on is instantly accessible on everything else I own"
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 01:47 PM   #29
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You might say Eddy forstalled the collapsed between Apple and music corps with an approach that was on cue.. :sorry:
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Ive never seen such terrible puns in my life.
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Ive got to agree with you.
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well done! Glad he got those deals worked out, or his goose would have been Cooked.
The deals worked out so well, they gave him more Jobs!
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 01:47 PM   #30
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Kind of off topic, but I've never understood the hyphenation of people whose parents are from "ethnic" countries. Nobody is ever described as a British-American. Or even an Australian-American.
Old habits die hard.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 01:51 PM   #31
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"He's the kind of person who is happy to be in the engine room making sure that everything is clicking along."

Kind of reminds me Severous Snape.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 01:56 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by highdough View Post
Kind of off topic, but I've never understood the hyphenation of people whose parents are from "ethnic" countries. Nobody is ever described as a British-American. Or even an Australian-American.
Maybe not British-American, but I've seen plenty others: Irish-American, Italian-American, Ukrainian-American, etc.

However, the issue here is that, given American history, it is of note that a minority member has been appointed as one of the top executives in one of the world's most powerful companies.

Regardless, the mention of an individual's ethnic background in situations like these is meant to serve as a positive, role-model-like influence not only on those of a similar ethnic background but to all Americans as a sign that the opportunities are there for all of us, regardless of where we (or our parents) come from. After all, unless an individual is a Native (American), the "hyphenated ethnic identifier" applies to all Americans in one form or another.

I find it both interesting and amusing that you felt strongly enough about this to tune in to that one thing in the article, although for an individual from outside the United States this may not be obvious. If you are from the US, then perhaps a little less Fox News and a little more History Channel might be helpful.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:06 PM   #33
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He seems like a sharp guy, and I like his type of leadership. Not looking for all the glory.

I mean no disrespect, but every time I see his pic I think "Vote for Pedro".
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:07 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Object-X View Post
This is such a significant seed change. For all the complaints Siri and Maps get, one thing that seems to be absent is how significant both these technologies are to Apple's future. I think it was well understood by management that neither would be ready for prime time and both need to be used before they will become better; so I find the idea that Forstall was removed for not signing an apology interesting. It may well have been a strategical move by Tim Cook to get rid of him. But Cue is the guy, because Siri and Maps are services, like iCloud, iTunes, and App Store.

So, along those lines, Johnathan Ive is not just going to standardize OS X UI, he's going to reinvent OS X. OS 11 (or is it OS XI?) will be the OS re-imagined. Tim needed to get Forstall out of the way if they were successfully going to collaborate to produce the next generation OS. A common refrain lately is what will be Tim Cook's first innovate contribution post-Jobs. I think we just witnessed the beginning of it. OS XI will be Apple's next big thing. It will be a tight synthesis of hardware, software, and services.
I feel (sort of) the same way! As much as I love all of my Apple products, there's no denying that the quality of software has been degrading each year. Not only that, but not much is really changing. While that's fine, and I love all of the new things iOS6 brings, as well as OS X 10.8, it just doesn't seem to be as much as Apple COULD do.

I feel like maybe Forstall was stuck on the old way of doing iOS, unable to re-imagine it or make drastic changes. That, or perhaps he had good ideas, but instead of putting them into play, he just knew he could milk small features into an update and everyone would still buy it. Either way, I didn't really think those were what Apple represented. I'm really glad Tim Cook offed the two people that he did.

In short, I really have big hope that Cue will improve Siri drastically, even though I already think Siri is pretty darn awesome! I also think with Ive on software, his ideals of not changing things unless there's a better way to do it will work well in iOS. I love the current iOS, but there HAS to be some sort of innovative solution that would make the home-screen much more alive. With Mansfield working on "innovative ideas", I think that'll allow Apple to push products out that nobody can imagine, at a pace that's far ahead of the industry.

As much as I wanted to ignore it, it looked as though Apple was going on the wrong path. As of now though, my hope in a brighter tomorrow is back
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:09 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by highdough View Post
Kind of off topic, but I've never understood the hyphenation of people whose parents are from "ethnic" countries. Nobody is ever described as a British-American. Or even an Australian-American.
Haha, yeah. It annoys me when people go "what about the ethnic groups?" haha, EVERYONE is in an ethnic group. The way some people use that word is like... "Well there's us, and then there's the ethnic people."

Holy crap, we're all human.

Instead of someone saying "Hey let's make an ethnic version." why can't they say "Let's make a [insert language here] version."

Anyway back on topic... I have a good feeling with where Apple is headed with these management changes.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:11 PM   #36
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However, the issue here is that, given American history, it is of note that a minority member has been appointed as one of the top executives in one of the world's most powerful companies.
And how long do we need to keep harping on that? Aren't there enough successful minorities that we can get past the condescending applause every time a minority accomplishes something?

Quote:
Regardless, the mention of an individual's ethnic background in situations like these is meant to serve as a positive, role-model-like influence not only on those of a similar ethnic background but to all Americans as a sign that the opportunities are there for all of us, regardless of where we (or our parents) come from.
Again, can't we get past this? Can't we just have role models that inspire us for substantive reasons? Or should black inventors only look at other black inventors and ignore, say, Edison?

Quote:
Fox News and a little more History Channel might be helpful.
Ahh, Fox News. So I guess that means if you *really* think everyone of everyone of every race should be treated the same, you're a racist bigot. Nothing new there, I guess.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:11 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Object-X View Post
This is such a significant seed change. For all the complaints Siri and Maps get, one thing that seems to be absent is how significant both these technologies are to Apple's future. I think it was well understood by management that neither would be ready for prime time and both need to be used before they will become better; so I find the idea that Forstall was removed for not signing an apology interesting. It may well have been a strategical move by Tim Cook to get rid of him. But Cue is the guy, because Siri and Maps are services, like iCloud, iTunes, and App Store.

So, along those lines, Johnathan Ive is not just going to standardize OS X UI, he's going to reinvent OS X. OS 11 (or is it OS XI?) will be the OS re-imagined. Tim needed to get Forstall out of the way if they were successfully going to collaborate to produce the next generation OS. A common refrain lately is what will be Tim Cook's first innovate contribution post-Jobs. I think we just witnessed the beginning of it. OS XI will be Apple's next big thing. It will be a tight synthesis of hardware, software, and services.
Very interesting analysis. I agree that the significance of this restructuring by Tim Cook has been somewhat downplayed, and it should not be. This is major, major stuff and the future of Apple is, if anything, going to be interesting as hell. I cannot wait to see what they do. This move brought back some of the mystery that's been missing since all these leak sites have popped up..

As far as OS X(I), I believe that iOS is it. I think that just as we had "back to the Mac", we'll have a growing integration of features from both OS until they become one. Whether or not that will be a good thing can (and will) spark GREAT debate here and elsewhere.

For my part, I'd love if iOS was more Mac-like: I love the row of icons, but would rather see it implemented the way it is in Mountain Lion. Four-finger pinch, and the icons are there. Do the four-finger spread and they go away. When I'm on my iMac (and using the excellent Magic-Trackpad) I RARELY use the dock. I also would like to see swiping between apps, just like you do with multiple desktops on the Mac. And finally, SEPARATE FRICKIN' ACCOUNTS!!! iPads are great family devices, but I hate having to sift through all the apps my kids put on it...
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:17 PM   #38
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Kind of off topic, but I've never understood the hyphenation of people whose parents are from "ethnic" countries. Nobody is ever described as a British-American. Or even an Australian-American.
QFT

From now on I will describe Steve Jobs as Assyrian-American. That'll hit home for people about how silly it is.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:22 PM   #39
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So he is Scotty and The Fixer all in one. Steve loved all in one.



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Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:24 PM   #40
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The Best Team Ever

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Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:33 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by WestonHarvey1 View Post
And how long do we need to keep harping on that? Aren't there enough successful minorities that we can get past the condescending applause every time a minority accomplishes something?
1) It's not condescending to recognize the successes of historically marginalized or underrepresented people
2) Success is still skewed according to racial prejudice to a significant degree. In other words, there aren't enough successful minorities - there would be far more if the world were actually meritocratic and based on 'hard work' or whatever you think it is.

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Originally Posted by WestonHarvey1 View Post
Again, can't we get past this? Can't we just have role models that inspire us for substantive reasons? Or should black inventors only look at other black inventors and ignore, say, Edison?
Nobody said that people's role models have to match their demographic background perfectly.

It's funny how fast popular sentiment in the 20th century went from "there is no problem, clearly some people are lesser people" to "can't we just ignore the problem, what's the big deal, everything is solved". (It's also usually people who are come from relatively privileged demographics who express this attitude, I wonder why.)

I wonder what your opinion would be if all of your ancestors and a large number of your current extended family were treated unfairly simply because of your last name, but one of them happened to do a good job and be successful. How quickly would they 'get past it'?

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Originally Posted by WestonHarvey1 View Post
Ahh, Fox News. So I guess that means if you *really* think everyone of everyone of every race should be treated the same, you're a racist bigot. Nothing new there, I guess.
More like, if you think ignoring racism makes it go away or if you express tired-out reactionary opinions, your sources of information probably reaffirm a terrible worldview.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:41 PM   #42
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"If you were going to be successful with Steve you couldn't compete for oxygen," [former Warner Music executive Paul] Vidich said. "You had to allow him to be him and shine in the greater glory that Steve sought for himself, and Eddy had this calm demeanor. He never said: 'Hey look at me,' to anyone. He just did a great job."

"Eddy doesn't care about those other guys, the flashy executives who want the spotlight," said an executive who has negotiated with Cue. "He's the kind of person who is happy to be in the engine room making sure that everything is clicking along."
Wow, if that doesn't make Steve Jobs sound like a complete dick, I don't know what does.

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Man, Jony looks like he could rip Forstall's head off right there.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:41 PM   #43
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A photo with Rupert Murdoch usually makes people look like corporate slime,
but not Eddy!
He looks more like the dog whisperer here. Eddy really is the brains behind Apples rise.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:47 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by WestonHarvey1 View Post
And how long do we need to keep harping on that? Aren't there enough successful minorities that we can get past the condescending applause every time a minority accomplishes something?



Again, can't we get past this? Can't we just have role models that inspire us for substantive reasons? Or should black inventors only look at other black inventors and ignore, say, Edison?



Ahh, Fox News. So I guess that means if you *really* think everyone of everyone of every race should be treated the same, you're a racist bigot. Nothing new there, I guess.
Wow. I'm sorry my post made you so angry. That was not my intent.

Yes, in an ideal world, we should be past this by now. But clearly, this is not the case in the America we live in. We all need role-models. However, it is a bit disingenuous to ignore America's history of bigotry when it comes to said role models. This matters. Until recently, many Americans BELIEVED there would never be an African-American President. Why? Because American culture taught this to them. We have to take responsibility for the consequences of our culture, both good and bad. And then we should promote and condemn, as necessary, said consequences.

To this day, ethnic groups in America segregate themselves. I see plenty of little-Italy, chinatown, koreatown, little odessa, etc. As a military member I've lived in every corner of the US (and the world), and have experienced a great amount of cultural influences as I've interacted with individuals at home and abroad. However, I for one do not see the separation as a weakness.

In my post, I was alluding to the fact that ALL Americans can be inspired by the achievement of minorities (we still use that term after all). That is not to diminish the accomplishments of any and all individuals from the human race. I was trying to explain the reason for the article's use of Mr. Cue's ethnic background in the spirit of unity, not division.

Perhaps you are not a minority member and this does not matter to you, and that is okay. But as someone who is a member of several ethnic groups, it does matter to me and my children. When my 8 year old daughter comes home from school crying because she was being teased about her hair not being straight (and therefore ugly), we have work to do. When my 10-year old son complains that he cannot dress like any superhero other than Spider-Man (his favorite character) on Halloween because he'd otherwise "look stupid", we have work to do. However, I counter: "it's okay son, we'll get you a suit, a flag pin, and some gray paint on your temples and you can be The President of the United States".

So no, I'm not a racist. If I were, I'd have to hate my ENTIRE family. If the quip about Fox News offended you, I take it back.

Now, how about we talk about some Apple stuff, huh?

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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
QFT

From now on I will describe Steve Jobs as Assyrian-American. That'll hit home for people about how silly it is.
That is interesting. I read somewhere that people were surprised and elated that he is of such descent...

It is not silly at all. It's okay man, you can be proud too! He was also white!!

We're all brothers, dude. Join the celebration.

Why does something so harmless make people so angry?!

On another note, I love how Apple products come in black and white.
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Last edited by melendezest; Oct 31, 2012 at 02:49 PM. Reason: Adding text
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 02:53 PM   #45
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You might say Eddy forstalled the collapsed between Apple and music corps with an approach that was on cue.. :sorry:
He's just doing his Jobs.

...oh.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 03:04 PM   #46
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Damn, look at Ive's biceps. Too much pressure, guess he stopped working out. Wouldn't mess with him still. JACKED.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 03:15 PM   #47
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Competence trumps ego.
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Much respect for Eddy, that's for sure.
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Originally Posted by Small White Car View Post
I never knew much about Cue which I took as a sign that he was a good guy. No news is good news for this kind of thing.
Looks like that was the actual case.
Agreed. EDDY is by all accounts an invaluable member of the team who, perhaps because of his relatively low profile, doesn't receive enough credit. Nice to see a very talented guy, with a slightly smaller ego, rise to the top.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 03:28 PM   #48
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Kind of off topic, but I've never understood the hyphenation of people whose parents are from "ethnic" countries. Nobody is ever described as a British-American. Or even an Australian-American.
Or maybe it's just too much of a pain to explain that you are (IrishEnglishScottishNorwegianGerman)-American.
Nobody except my family would notice or even care.
To everyone else I'm either White, American, or White American.
Sometimes, I wish I had the opportunity to check-mark forms
to indicate and honor my ancestry, especially since there have been some
huge differences between each of those countries, but I only have the option to
say I'm white as if they were all the same.

It's probably not even politically correct to write any of this.
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 03:55 PM   #49
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on Cue, as always.
So Forstall basically lost his Job because of the loss of Jobs?
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Old Oct 31, 2012, 03:55 PM   #50
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaJp6...e_gdata_player

Apple's direction now reminds me of its past! I hope the innovation doesn't stop from here on in.
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