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Old Nov 5, 2012, 04:36 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry&Foolish View Post
And another thing -

I read some time ago Jonathan Ive was the project leader for SL. Just goes to show you - put someone brilliant in charge and you get a brilliant product.

Put a committee in charge and you get Lion and Mountain Lion.
No. Bertrand Serlet was the one in charge of OSX Snow Leopard. Craig Federighi is the guy who goofed Lion and ML.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 05:48 PM   #27
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No. Bertrand Serlet was the one in charge of OSX Snow Leopard. Craig Federighi is the guy who goofed Lion and ML.
Whoever is in charge, I think they seriously need some visionary. Someone who is at least technical minded, can think through scenarios.

Look here for an example of their problem going forward. They are stuck.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1417731

They also have serious performance problems. It is like the NeXT debacle, with the slow writable optical drives trying to replace harddrives. Right now they have serious cache problems, trying to make mountain lion behave like an iOS device (caching ALL apps with gigabytes of memory in main memory and harddrive? WTF! You will run out of memory and cause thrashing!). message-passing objective-c, garbage collection, just-in-time compilation, llvm, all are roadblocks. No native-code mode from metal to app, with OS being the bottleneck because of language choice and technical direction. Why do games run faster on Windows? Why don't people buy games on Mac? Without performance, no matter how you sprinkle marketing words, the glaring problems will appear. Just like Google trying to sell non-native app chromebooks. Just not going to work. Just like trying to run games on the server and the client a dumb display. Not gonna work (latency, and performance). The wi-fi is only part of the problem.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 10:01 PM   #28
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The engineers also confirmed the school's WiFi is set correctly, so the issue is on Lion/ Mountain Lion's end.
Just because they checked the configuration does not mean it's not the access points. Unless they were doing very low level checks...

This doesn't explain why it only happens at your school then.

You've clearly got two variables here, OS version AND WiFi infrastructure.

Let me give you an example....because I want you to draw the parallel:

Often, people who write webpages are a bit sloppy with their code. If the browser displaying the website is permissive of these errors, the webpage will show but maybe things are a bit off.

Then imagine I upgrade the web browser, but the developers have made it so the browser is much more strict when it receives code which is not formatted correctly. If the coding bug is in a critical spot, rather than displaying the web page with errors, it falls over.

You see this stuff all throughout IT and computer science. Very common with compilers and coding. You can see this situation basically anywhere there are strict standards or protocols.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hungry&Foolish View Post
I read some time ago Jonathan Ive was the project leader for SL. Just goes to show you - put someone brilliant in charge and you get a brilliant product.
I'm pretty sure this is not correct. Developing an OS is an extremely technical project and well outside the scope of Ive's genius. He may have had input into the UI but I highly doubt much more than that.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 10:08 PM   #29
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I see your analogy. In response however, I should point out that Windows XP, Windows 7, Mac OSX 10.4.11 (Tiger) OSX 10.5.8, 10.6.8, iOS, and even Android... They work fine on the network. None of them drop the connection. Only Lion and Mountain Lion do.

I should also add my brother's Late 2008 Aluminum MacBook was on Snow Leopard and worked fine on campus (Umass Amherst) After upgrading to Mountain Lion, he has the same issues. So are his classmates using Mountain Lion and Lion.

So while it is something to do with the router (home is fine) it also has to do with OSX as 10.6.8 and below work like magic on the network.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 10:20 PM   #30
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Also, Text Replacement is broken in Safari.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...8#post16237698

Why Apple messes with things that are fine... I wonder.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 10:21 PM   #31
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So while it is something to do with the router (home is fine) it also has to do with OSX as 10.6.8 and below work like magic on the network.
I prefer 10.6.8 of all the versions I've used. So much, that I've got my entire personal network and several of my Macs centered on it.

While I have ML on my newest machines, there's nothing about it that appeals to me. Worse the visual reminders of iOS are particularly annoying.

I've turned off or eliminated as many elements of iOS as possible, yet nothing beats the speed, stability, and reliability of my highly optimized SL 10.6.8.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 10:30 PM   #32
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It is quite unfortunate that the Mac is fading. I know we are in a "Post PC Era", but coming out with a new version of OSX each year, adding more buggy features with out fixing the buggy features from last year is dumb. I don't have a problem with unifying iOS and OSX, but I do have a problem when my computer isn't reliable, or becomes slow, buggy, and no longer a joy to use.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 11:00 PM   #33
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I prefer 10.6.8 of all the versions I've used. So much, that I've got my entire personal network and several of my Macs centered on it.
That's a nice "symbolic" protest but it really doesn't make much sense. If any one of those machines craps out there isn't a replacement that will ever run SL again.

I'm on 10.6.8 myself but even I know this is backing the wrong horse in the long run.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 11:42 PM   #34
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That's a nice "symbolic" protest but it really doesn't make much sense. If any one of those machines craps out there isn't a replacement that will ever run SL again.

I'm on 10.6.8 myself but even I know this is backing the wrong horse in the long run.
Your assumptions are... well you know what they say about the word assume.

It's not a protest, it's a choice.

The 2010 17" & 15" BTO MBP's as well as the Mac Pro I have as the main machines on the network are easily repairable, and I have both the skill level & depth of experience to do any required repairs myself.

That's not to say I expect to use 10.6.8 for another decade, but for an undetermined amount of time I'm fine.

By the time ML is debugged & refined to version 10.8.5 or so, Apple history suggests it will be much better than it is today. I revisit my configurations & setups on an ongoing basis. If I didn't, I'd still be running System 7.

In fact that's one of the specific reasons I have 11" & 13" 2012 MBA's as well as 13" & 15" MBPr's. As an engineer & technologist I enjoy using most all of Apple's latest models, for fun & to stay current. The best choice is an informed choice based on personal experience.

For all mission critical personal & professional work I rely on my ultra stable, fast & reliable SL setup. It's as simple as that.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 03:03 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by ouimetnick View Post
It is quite unfortunate that the Mac is fading. I know we are in a "Post PC Era", but coming out with a new version of OSX each year, adding more buggy features with out fixing the buggy features from last year is dumb. I don't have a problem with unifying iOS and OSX, but I do have a problem when my computer isn't reliable, or becomes slow, buggy, and no longer a joy to use.
Apple need to focus on fixing up Mountain Lion in their future maintenance updates instead of introducing more buggy features... Something which I don't think Craig Ferengi (he is a Ferengi isn't he...? Bloody greedy-lobed bastard) and his team can handle... I guess they've lost the ingenuity of Bertrand Serlet, and as a result a stable and functional Mac OS X died-ed with him.

EDIT:
Look what I found on Mountain Lion... They introduced Facebook integration on 10.8.2, and yet the same piece of crappy feature doesn't work on Notification Center... This is despite Repairing Disk Permission and twice the clean installation of Mountain Lion. All I get is error on the Console Log that some nasty process has crashed:

Quote:
11/6/12 1:26:16.022 PM xpcd[236]: (null): have symlinks: (
)
11/6/12 1:26:17.672 PM com.apple.ShareKitHelper[476]: An uncaught exception was raised
11/6/12 1:26:17.673 PM com.apple.ShareKitHelper[476]: Unexpected error on SLFacebookSession connection: Error Domain=XPCObjectsErrorDomain Code=1 "The operation couldn’t be completed. (XPCObjectsErrorDomain error 1.)"
11/6/12 1:26:17.673 PM com.apple.ShareKitHelper[476]: (
0 CoreFoundation 0x00007fff8b7170a6 __exceptionPreprocess + 198
1 libobjc.A.dylib 0x00007fff8ec033f0 objc_exception_throw + 43
2 CoreFoundation 0x00007fff8b716e7c +[NSException raise:format:] + 204
3 Social 0x00007fff86a1f4d7 __27-[SLProxy _setupConnection]_block_invoke_0 + 115
4 XPCObjects 0x00007fff8bf6eea7 __block_global_0 + 147
5 libdispatch.dylib 0x00007fff9144ef01 _dispatch_call_block_and_release + 15
6 libdispatch.dylib 0x00007fff9144b0b6 _dispatch_client_callout + 8
7 libdispatch.dylib 0x00007fff9144c47f _dispatch_queue_drain + 235
8 libdispatch.dylib 0x00007fff9144c2f1 _dispatch_queue_invoke + 52
9 libdispatch.dylib 0x00007fff9144c1c3 _dispatch_worker_thread2 + 249
10 libsystem_c.dylib 0x00007fff84d1bcab _pthread_wqthread + 404
11 libsystem_c.dylib 0x00007fff84d06171 start_wqthread + 13
)
11/6/12 1:26:17.674 PM com.apple.ShareKitHelper[476]: *** Terminating app due to uncaught exception 'NSInternalInconsistencyException', reason: 'Unexpected error on SLFacebookSession connection: Error Domain=XPCObjectsErrorDomain Code=1 "The operation couldn’t be completed. (XPCObjectsErrorDomain error 1.)"'
*** First throw call stack:
(
0 CoreFoundation 0x00007fff8b7170a6 __exceptionPreprocess + 198
1 libobjc.A.dylib 0x00007fff8ec033f0 objc_exception_throw + 43
2 CoreFoundation 0x00007fff8b716e7c +[NSException raise:format:] + 204
3 Social 0x00007fff86a1f4d7 __27-[SLProxy _setupConnection]_block_invoke_0 + 115
4 XPCObjects 0x00007fff8bf6eea7 __block_global_0 + 147
5 libdispatch.dylib 0x00007fff9144ef01 _dispatch_call_block_and_release + 15
6 libdispatch.dylib 0x00007fff9144b0b6 _dispatch_client_callout + 8
7 libdispatch.dylib 0x00007fff9144c47f _dispatch_queue_drain + 235
8 libdispatch.dylib 0x00007fff9144c2f1 _dispatch_queue_invoke + 52
9 libdispatch.dylib 0x00007fff9144c1c3 _dispatch_worker_thread2 + 249
10 libsystem_c.dylib 0x00007fff84d1bcab _pthread_wqthread + 404
11 libsystem_c.dylib 0x00007fff84d06171 start_wqthread + 13
)
11/6/12 1:26:17.956 PM ReportCrash[478]: DebugSymbols was unable to start a spotlight query: spotlight is not responding or disabled.
11/6/12 1:26:17.967 PM sandboxd[477]: ([476]) com.apple.ShareK(476) deny mach-lookup com.apple.sociald.server
11/6/12 1:26:18.000 PM kernel[0]: Sandbox: sandboxd(477) deny mach-lookup com.apple.coresymbolicationd
11/6/12 1:26:18.258 PM ReportCrash[478]: failed looking up LS service ( scCreateSystemService returned MACH_PORT_NULL, called from SetupCoreApplicationServicesCommunicationPort, so using client-side NULL calls.
11/6/12 1:26:18.258 PM ReportCrash[478]: LaunchServices/5123589: Unable to lookup coreservices session port for session 0x186a0 uid=0 euid=0
11/6/12 1:26:18.258 PM ReportCrash[478]: failed looking up LS service ( scCreateSystemService returned MACH_PORT_NULL, called from SetupCoreApplicationServicesCommunicationPort, so using client-side NULL calls.
11/6/12 1:26:18.258 PM ReportCrash[478]: LaunchServices/5123589: Unable to lookup coreservices session port for session 0x186a0 uid=0 euid=0
11/6/12 1:26:18.258 PM ReportCrash[478]: failed looking up LS service ( scCreateSystemService returned MACH_PORT_NULL, called from SetupCoreApplicationServicesCommunicationPort, so using client-side NULL calls.
11/6/12 1:26:18.259 PM ReportCrash[478]: LaunchServices/5123589: Unable to lookup coreservices session port for session 0x186a0 uid=0 euid=0
11/6/12 1:26:18.259 PM ReportCrash[478]: failed looking up LS service ( scCreateSystemService returned MACH_PORT_NULL, called from SetupCoreApplicationServicesCommunicationPort, so using client-side NULL calls.
11/6/12 1:26:18.259 PM ReportCrash[478]: LaunchServices/5123589: Unable to lookup coreservices session port for session 0x186a0 uid=0 euid=0
11/6/12 1:26:18.259 PM ReportCrash[478]: failed looking up LS service ( scCreateSystemService returned MACH_PORT_NULL, called from SetupCoreApplicationServicesCommunicationPort, so using client-side NULL calls.
11/6/12 1:26:18.259 PM ReportCrash[478]: LaunchServices/5123589: Unable to lookup coreservices session port for session 0x186a0 uid=0 euid=0
11/6/12 1:26:18.336 PM NotificationCenter[473]: --error: [ShareKit-XPC] XPC Error: Connection interrupted
11/6/12 1:26:18.338 PM com.apple.launchd[1]: (com.apple.ShareKitHelper[476]) Job appears to have crashed: Abort trap: 6
11/6/12 1:26:18.527 PM ReportCrash[478]: Saved crash report for com.apple.ShareKitHelper[476] version 1.0 (119.8) to /Library/Logs/DiagnosticReports/com.apple.ShareKitHelper_2012-11-06-132618_Ethan-Lims-MacBook-Pro.crash
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Last edited by Eithanius; Nov 6, 2012 at 03:13 AM.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:36 AM   #36
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I am a new mac0s user, but i have better than 25 years experience with computer operating systems. really what is wrong with ML and Lion. they seem pretty good, in fact i would much rather use it over win8 to me going back to 2 versions previous is like the people went from win7 to xp.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:43 AM   #37
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I am a new mac0s user, but i have better than 25 years experience with computer operating systems. really what is wrong with ML and Lion. they seem pretty good, in fact i would much rather use it over win8 to me going back to 2 versions previous is like the people went from win7 to xp.
25 years with a non-Apple OS? Since you've never used Snow Leopard you probably aren't qualified to criticize those of us that still use it. I can certainly see why a new OSX user would be satisfied with ML. You simply don't have anything to compare it to.

It's really that simple.

And I don't know anyone that went from Win7 to XP... I think you mean "Vista".
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 12:01 PM   #38
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25 years with a non-Apple OS? Since you've never used Snow Leopard you probably aren't qualified to criticize those of us that still use it. I can certainly see why a new OSX user would be satisfied with ML. You simply don't have anything to compare it to.

It's really that simple.

And I don't know anyone that went from Win7 to XP... I think you mean "Vista".
i highly doubt ML is anything like vista...which I had no issues with vista, but I perfer win7 to it. and yes some tards downgraded from 7 to xp, if they couldve got win98 they would run that too. I will give you that, I probably dont have much room to critize. but you gave me no reason. With what the OP stated couldnt it simply be his hardware or the schools hardware?
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 12:23 PM   #39
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I probably dont have much room to critize. but you gave me no reason.
Never using SL, would you even know what I was talking about?

Quote:
and yes some tards downgraded from 7 to xp,
"tards"?

I guess this ends the adult interaction. Bye.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 12:24 PM   #40
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i highly doubt ML is anything like vista...which I had no issues with vista, but I perfer win7 to it. and yes some tards downgraded from 7 to xp, if they couldve got win98 they would run that too. I will give you that, I probably dont have much room to critize. but you gave me no reason. With what the OP stated couldnt it simply be his hardware or the schools hardware?
Let's put your analogy to perspective, shall we...?

If you look at those people that have been using Macs for 5 years or more, Mountain Lion is like Win 7, while Lion is far worse, kinda like Apple's version of Win Vista... Old farts (tards in your perspective) like us who came from Snow Leopard and Leopard/Tiger (hence Windows XP and Windows 98/95 respectively) would find Lion distasteful... Mountain Lion...? Well a bit better than Lion, but still nowhere near the ever-rocking steady Snow Leopard... So here you are, tards like use would go back to Snow Leopard aka Win XP...

I guess Apple has alienated old Mac users by welcoming new users who are accustomed to Lion/Mountain Lion farce, just like the PowerPC/Intel camps during that transitional period...
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 12:31 PM   #41
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Let's put your analogy to perspective, shall we...?

If you look at those people that have been using Macs for 5 years or more, Mountain Lion is like Win 7, while Lion is far worse, kinda like Apple's version of Win Vista... Old farts (tards in your perspective) like us who came from Snow Leopard and Leopard/Tiger (hence Windows XP and Windows 98/95 respectively) would find Lion distasteful... Mountain Lion...? Well a bit better than Lion, but still nowhere near the ever-rocking steady Snow Leopard... So here you are, tards like use would go back to Snow Leopard aka Win XP...

I guess Apple has alienated old Mac users by welcoming new users who are accustomed to Lion/Mountain Lion farce, just like the PowerPC/Intel camps during that transitional period...
thanks for clearing it up
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 03:56 PM   #42
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I would say Snow Leopard is to Windows 7. Lion and Mountain Lion= Vista and Windows ME

Windows 7 was a slightly UI changed Vista. But this new "Vista" had a much better engine under the hood. Rock solid and a joy to use. (I use OSX and Windows)

Simply put. My favorite OSX version is Snow Leopard (10.6). My favorite windows OS is Windows 7.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 04:40 AM   #43
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Uhh... Why are you emailing Apple execs with this when the problem is obviously with the building's Wifi?

If you're saying your laptop is fine at home, and not at work, and other mac's are suffering the same issue at work, then its pretty damn obvious it's a problem with the particular wifi network!
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 07:22 AM   #44
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It is not the building. It is how Lion and ML handle the building's WiFi settings. It would be damn obvious it is the building if all WiFi devices disconnected.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 08:51 AM   #45
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No. Bertrand Serlet was the one in charge of OSX Snow Leopard. Craig Federighi is the guy who goofed Lion and ML.
Bertrand, please come back!!!
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 05:38 AM   #46
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Just curious, what kind of access point does your school use? I don't seem to see that mentioned here. Could it be a Netgear?

I disagree that Apple us getting crappy lately. You visibly never endured the Performa 5200/5300 series.

Lastly, you seem to have found a very good workaround (sl kext). Just post the procedure on your school's BB and you will be everyone's hero.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 01:23 PM   #47
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I was going to order a new hard drive and upgrade from snow leopard to mountain lion this weekend. After reading this post, I'm not going to upgrade. I thought notification center and icloud would be cool. But with crippled wifi (snow leopard is bad, but apparently mountain lion is far worse), I won'd do the upgrade.
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Old Nov 10, 2012, 01:33 PM   #48
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If you take the .kext from SL, and delete Lion or ML's kext, and put SL's kext in place, then the issue is solved. But when there is a 10.8.x update, it breaks it, and things go downhill.
Put a SL kext in some hidden place, make it "read-only" to prevent the accidental deletion,
write a small script that overwrites the kext installed in the system with your SL kext, and put the script in startup.
This way, after every minor update of OS, it would be enough to just restart a computer to fix the things.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 06:52 PM   #49
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Uhh... Why are you emailing Apple execs with this when the problem is obviously with the building's Wifi?

Because it obviously ISN'T the building's WIFI.

If it works with previous OS X and other machines, then there is some sort of issue with the OS X wireless networking software.

I haven't seen any issues like this, but I only have Cisco and Apple wireless gear.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 05:09 AM   #50
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Excellent thread. I think you all are nailing it, the last couple of OSX versions lacks direction and downright sensibility to what are necessary and useful features, and the kind of "features" that diminish the OS X experience.
The current trend is to make nonsensical changes in the OSX just for the sake of change.
I'm always about trying out the newest, and getting the newest OS etc., but for the first time I'm sticking with the older OS, Snow Leopard. I have no plans to upgrade any of my older macs, but when I get a new one I guess I'm forced to upgrade.

I really hope that Apple wises up, and figures this out. Disappointing to see Apple changing a successful formula, and going away from the brilliance that was Snow Leopard. Autosave, resume, versions, reminders, notification center, launchpad, Facebook integration etc..etc., give me a break! What about an improved Finder, better graphics support, optimizing the increasingly RAM- and CPU-hungry code in Lion and Mountain Lion. And of course, FIX THE BUGS.
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