Handbrake now has an AppleTV 3 preset

[Menneisyys2]

Originally Posted by bwfc0907

I want to turn my 1080p MKV files to m4v to use on my Apple TV 3. Want quality picture. Do I just use the default Apple TV 3 settings from the nightly build, or is it worth any other settings being changed.

If those source MKV files are already of manageable size (meaning they aren't direct, non-reencoded BD rips), a simple remux could be preferable (time, quality) to reencoding the entire thing with HB. Give a try to Subler.

[bwfc0907]

Originally Posted by Menneisyys2

If those source MKV files are already of manageable size (meaning they aren't direct, non-reencoded BD rips), a simple remux could be preferable (time, quality) to reencoding the entire thing with HB. Give a try to Subler.

Is Subler for Windows or Mac? I'm using Windows 7.

The files are quite big in size from my BluRay rips.

Can you point me in the right direction on the settings for Subler.

[Menneisyys2]

Originally Posted by bwfc0907

The files are quite big in size from my BluRay rips.

Then, stick with HB. You'll, by using the default q=20 setting, save about 70-75% of the original storage requirements.

[bwfc0907]

Will q=20 give me same picture quality as current MKV?

[Menneisyys2]

Originally Posted by bwfc0907

Will q=20 give me same picture quality as current MKV?

Slightly worse - as with anything involving reencoding (see "generation loss" - this is why remuxing is always preferred unless you would end up with unmanageable file sizes just like with original BD rips). If you don't mind the slightly bigger filesize (at q=17, the size increase is about 30%), you can slightly decrease it to, say, 18 or 17 to increase the quality. However, IMHO, q=20 is a good compromise - way better than, say, the much higher-compressed Apple iTunes Store.

And remember to prefer the "High profile" preset. It's slightly more than three times slower to encode than the default normal but delivers better quality.

[mic j]

Originally Posted by Menneisyys2

Slightly worse - as with anything involving reencoding (see "generation loss" - this is why remuxing is always preferred unless you would end up with unmanageable file sizes just like with original BD rips). If you don't mind the slightly bigger filesize (at q=17, the size increase is about 30%), you can slightly decrease it to, say, 18 or 17 to increase the quality. However, IMHO, q=20 is a good compromise - way better than, say, the much higher-compressed Apple iTunes Store.

And remember to prefer the "High profile" preset. It's slightly more than three times slower to encode than the default normal but delivers better quality.

Why do you recommend the "High Profile" over the "aTV3" preset?

[Menneisyys2]

Originally Posted by mic j

Why do you recommend the "High Profile" over the "aTV3" preset?

Because the ATV3 preset is like the iPad 3 preset: much faster than the HP one but delivers definitely lower quality: lack of CABAC, optimal adaptive B-frames etc. (see the Advanced tab), defaults to the (low-quality and in no way recommended) fast decombing algorithm (see the "Video" tab) etc and changes the fps from 29.97 to 30. The ATV3 won't have any problems playing back HP (CABAC etc.) videos - it's only over 20-25 Mbps and/or 30 fps that it starts to stutter.

If you do have the time for encoding, High Profile is the best to quickly set up a transcoding, without having to fine-tune the parameters.

[mic j]

Originally Posted by Menneisyys2

Because the ATV3 preset is like the iPad 3 preset: much faster than the HP one but delivers definitely lower quality: lack of CABAC, optimal adaptive B-frames etc. (see the Advanced tab), defaults to the (low-quality and in no way recommended) fast decombing algorithm (see the "Video" tab) etc and changes the fps from 29.97 to 30. The ATV3 won't have any problems playing back HP (CABAC etc.) videos - it's only over 20-25 Mbps and/or 30 fps that it starts to stutter.

If you do have the time for encoding, High Profile is the best to quickly set up a transcoding, without having to fine-tune the parameters.

Sure would like to hear Dynaflash's thoughts on your assertion. For one thing, it does not change the fps from 29.97 to 30. It is still matches source but has a cap of 30fps. And I thought using adaptive B-frames was no longer necessary with the later aTV versions.

[Menneisyys2]

Originally Posted by mic j

For one thing, it does not change the fps from 29.97 to 30.

Yup, my bad - haven't taken into account that the default "30" setting doesn't mean true fps changing, but only capping. The latter can indeed be useful for for example homemade 50p/60p videos, where the ATv3 hardware would stutter. Not so with DVD's, BD discs or DVB / ATSC broadcasts, which are never over 29.97 fps, also counting in that one can't easily make decombing result in bob'ing in HB (see e.g. AviSynth's TempGuassMC_beta()) meaning no 50p/60p videos from interlaced DVB / ATSC broadcasts.

EDIT: BTW, I'll also run some tests with the ATV3 preset to see how it compares to the Normal and HP presets, encoding time-wise.

[dynaflash]

Originally Posted by Menneisyys2

much faster than the HP one but delivers definitely lower quality: lack of CABAC, optimal adaptive B-frames etc. (see the Advanced tab),

Er, Atv3 preset uses both Cabac and badapt=2. In fact when I did the atv3 preset I basically used the Hi Profile options and only removed rc-lookahead (testing showed a speed hit and little to no visual improvement.

Originally Posted by Menneisyys2

defaults to the (low-quality and in no way recommended) fast decombing algorithm

While "Fast" Decomb is not quite as accurate as Default ( internally we call them decomb 2 and decomb 3 ... for *most* sources its awfully accurate. A few more false positives on some frames imo it works for most situations just fine. Its main benefit is that on a truly progressive source there is no tangible speed hit over no decomb. I am not arguing that decomb slower is technically more accurate. Saying it is in no way recommended would be a bit harsh and imo misleading.

Edit: in fact I would submit that the Atv 3 preset is more accurate due to its use of Modulus 2 instead of Modulus 16 for loose anamorphic.

[Menneisyys2]

Originally Posted by dynaflash

Er, Atv3 preset uses both Cabac and badapt=2. In fact when I did the atv3 preset I basically used the Hi Profile options and only removed rc-lookahead (testing showed a speed hit and little to no visual improvement.

Oops, my bad. I have looked at the wrong place in HB (probably I havent noticed the highlighting in the preset list). Of course there is CABAC and optimal B-frames. That is, just ignore my previous post.

A few more false positives on some frames imo it works for most situations just fine. Its main benefit is that on a truly progressive source there is no tangible speed hit over no decomb. I am not arguing that decomb slower is technically more accurate. Saying it is in no way recommended would be a bit harsh and imo misleading.

OIC. I just switch between "No decomb at all" and "Default" after quickly checking out the source (for example, in Europe, some originally 24p movies are broadcast truly interlaced at 50i after truly motion compensating them so you can never be sure a movie is always broadcast progressively at 25p) to see whether any decomb is needed if I know it isn't, say, a newer documentary movie shot with a video camera (meaning almost exclusively interlaced content). Default indeed slows down even truly progressive conversion with, say, 40%. Nevertheless, I tend to stick with it because I need to use it in, say, 25-30% of the cases. (The other cases are just 24/25p movies broadcast without interlacing.)

[dynaflash]

Soo ... all of that said there really is no big reason to use Hi Profile over the ATV 3 preset. And I dunno why you would want to use the Normal preset, its probably gonna go bye bye in the next release.

[mic j]

Thanks for clarifying, Dynaflash. After using the aTV3 preset since release and being total satisfied with the results, I was in a bit of a panic thinking I would see a big improvement using High Profile and have to go back and redo everything. You saved my sanity.

[dynaflash]

Originally Posted by mic j

Thanks for clarifying, Dynaflash. After using the aTV3 preset since release and being total satisfied with the results, I was in a bit of a panic thinking I would see a big improvement using High Profile and have to go back and redo everything. You saved my sanity.

lol. no worries. its easy to get caught up in the minutiae of it all. some of this stuff wouldn't even effect the visually perceived quality (most) but more the same quality at the expense of file size ( one of the benefits of using constant quality encoding).

Enjoy and try not get too caught up in over analyzing the tiny details.

[Menneisyys2]

Originally Posted by dynaflash

Soo ... all of that said there really is no big reason to use Hi Profile over the ATV 3 preset. And I dunno why you would want to use the Normal preset, its probably gonna go bye bye in the next release.

Nope - sorry, I mistook the ATV3 preset to a (much weaker - see the list above) other one. (Sorry, was too tired.)

[kbutler84]

I have been using the ATV3 setting in handbrake and keeping RF at 20 and usually get encodes about 5-8GBs in size. I'm fine with that, but I encoded Temple of Doom yesterday and came out with a 12GB file (Raiders was 10, I believe).

What RF setting are you generally using?

[mic j]

Originally Posted by kbutler84

I have been using the ATV3 setting in handbrake and keeping RF at 20 and usually get encodes about 5-8GBs in size. I'm fine with that, but I encoded Temple of Doom yesterday and came out with a 12GB file (Raiders was 10, I believe).

What RF setting are you generally using?

20 all the time.

[rayward]

Originally Posted by kbutler84

I have been using the ATV3 setting in handbrake and keeping RF at 20 and usually get encodes about 5-8GBs in size. I'm fine with that, but I encoded Temple of Doom yesterday and came out with a 12GB file (Raiders was 10, I believe).

What RF setting are you generally using?

I use the preset 20.

FWIW, the file size depends not only on the RF factor and the length of the movie, but also on the detail in the movie. I find that movies with lots of grain in the picture (Hurt Locker, Saving Private Ryan), movies with lots of action and/or black and white movies (grain again) always come out with a larger than expected file size.

Options are to back off (increase) the RF factor or to downgrade the resolution to 720p (I do this for B&W movies). But sometimes (like the two movies mentioned above), it's just necessary and worthwhile to bite the bullet and live with the big file.

[GarrettL1979]

Movies from the 80s and 90s (and probably earlier) tend to produce larger files I assume due to graininess. There are a few surprises with modern movies every once in a while, but they tend to be smaller in my experience.

[Idgit]

Originally Posted by dynaflash

Soo ... all of that said there really is no big reason to use Hi Profile over the ATV 3 preset. And I dunno why you would want to use the Normal preset, its probably gonna go bye bye in the next release.

For speed! I use a Mac Mini 1.83 GHz for my encodes and the Normal preset is fast and has decent quality for ripping DVDs of TV series. If I had to use the Apple TV 2 or High Profile presets for TV show DVDs, it would take months to rip them all.

If the Normal preset is truly going to be dumped in the next version, is there a way to create a custom Apple TV 2 or High Profile preset that is closer in speed to the Normal preset?

[rshock]

So I have begun using the ATV3 preset to convert blu-ray rips of my kids movies. These movies are then imported to iTunes and then streamed to my ATV3. I have used all of the default settings, and end up with files about 3GB-4GB in size, which is fine. They look and play beautifully on my Mac Mini.

The problem I am having is that it takes HOURS to stream these files to the ATV3 which is in the same room. SD version of these same movies which are about 1.5GB start playing in seconds, but the 1920x800(or 1080) versions take about 2-3 hours to buffer to the point where the ATV3 will start playing.

Both my computer and my ATV3 are connected via Wifi, but they both have full bar strength, and I have high download speeds on my Mac Mini. It doesn't seem like a bandwidth problem if my 1.5GB files start playing in seconds, but my 3GB files take 2 hours.

Am I doing something wrong? Should I be using a different preset to speed up streaming? Any help is appreciated.

[mic j]

Originally Posted by rshock

So I have begun using the ATV3 preset to convert blu-ray rips of my kids movies. These movies are then imported to iTunes and then streamed to my ATV3. I have used all of the default settings, and end up with files about 3GB-4GB in size, which is fine. They look and play beautifully on my Mac Mini.

The problem I am having is that it takes HOURS to stream these files to the ATV3 which is in the same room. SD version of these same movies which are about 1.5GB start playing in seconds, but the 1920x800(or 1080) versions take about 2-3 hours to buffer to the point where the ATV3 will start playing.

Both my computer and my ATV3 are connected via Wifi, but they both have full bar strength, and I have high download speeds on my Mac Mini. It doesn't seem like a bandwidth problem if my 1.5GB files start playing in seconds, but my 3GB files take 2 hours.

Am I doing something wrong? Should I be using a different preset to speed up streaming? Any help is appreciated.

Did you check "web optimized" when you transcoded with HB?

[rshock]

Originally Posted by mic j

Did you check "web optimized" when you transcoded with HB?

Uh... no, I just used default settings for the ATV3 profile. I guess I'll try that tonight. What does 'web optimized' do?

[blueroom]

Originally Posted by rshock

Uh... no, I just used default settings for the ATV3 profile. I guess I'll try that tonight. What does 'web optimized' do?

Web optimized moves the metadata to the front of the file instead of the end. Files should load faster.

Also for Blu-Ray move the RF slider to 22, or 23 (else you get some pretty large files)

[mic j]

Originally Posted by blueroom

Web optimized moves the metadata to the front of the file instead of the end. Files should load faster.

Also for Blu-Ray move the RF slider to 22, or 23 (else you get some pretty large files)

That's a decrease in quality, which a lot of people do with no problem. However, I would recommend trying a single chapter at both 20 and 22/23 before doing a whole movie. CQ of 20 is a pretty solid value. Changing CQ to lower quality might result on video quality being on/over the edge for some movies. Movies have different starting qualities, different people have have different tolerances for quality issues, and viewing circumstances can also be a factor. Better to test the water before jumping in the pool.