Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:08 PM   #126
KnightWRX
macrumors Pentium
 
KnightWRX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Quebec, Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
The figures do not appear to show how many Samsung devices were returned from carriers or retailers because they did not sell.

People continue to ignore this major fact.
Yes, because it's a non-issue. If Samsung had had 1 good quarter and a ton of poor quarters, we could say there is a trend of "returns" going on. That's not the case at all, Samsung has been the #1 smartphone vendor for a while, and the #1 overall cellphone vendor too, beating out even Nokia.

Call us when Samsung has earning misses and their numbers show a shrink in their unit shipments.
__________________
"What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others."
-- Pericles
KnightWRX is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:09 PM   #127
dalbir4444
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by iRumored View Post
Samsung's newest phone is selling more than Apple's old phone? INCREDIBLE NEWS!!

Does anyone else hate that smiley?
dalbir4444 is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:09 PM   #128
frayne182
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
Yep..because the majority here don't understand it. How do I know..because I use to work for a company that use to make DVD's that sold at Best Buy on the shelves.

Guess what...Best Buy bought a ton. Seemed like we made a lot of money. But we weren't going to get a check till they got past the return date.

Guess what...unsold quantities were returned to our distributor 6 months later. They had to issue a credit to BB.

Total sales weren't that great even though original sales were.

That's how retail works.
Well.... You can't download a phone...... Yet
__________________
Custom Gaming PC ; Google Nexus 7 ; iPhone4 ; iPhone5
frayne182 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:10 PM   #129
BaldiMac
macrumors 604
 
BaldiMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by frayne182 View Post
I always thought they were obliged to report sales.....


As a public company isn't that a given?

Correct me if I'm wrong though cause I'm not truly sure. Just always thought that
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmpireITtech View Post
i thought as a publicly traded company they were obligated?? No?
No, Apple is not obligated to report unit sales for any of their products. For example, they do not report unit sales for the AppleTV. Also, Samsung Electronics is a public company.
BaldiMac is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:12 PM   #130
EmpireITtech
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
Do you actually disagree with anything that I've said or are you just calling me a fanboy?
don't remember using the word fanboy, but if you look down you'll see my other comment...I'm asking do you ever see these articles and see that Samsung is catching up? or do you immediately discount them bc you love only Apple products?

BTW, I really do love both products, heck, my Mac Thunderbolt screen is just ridiculously good
EmpireITtech is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:13 PM   #131
dalbir4444
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
If you look at Samsung's profit margins for Q3, it is quite likely that they actually SOLD this many phones, and not just shipped them.
dalbir4444 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:13 PM   #132
frayne182
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalbir4444 View Post
Does anyone else hate that smiley?
they all suck personally.

I often steal some from other forums
__________________
Custom Gaming PC ; Google Nexus 7 ; iPhone4 ; iPhone5
frayne182 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:16 PM   #133
donrsd
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by melendezest View Post
I reeeeally wish Apple would.

I played with the 1st Nexus phone and really liked the screen size; the SIII is a tad big but I'd still buy it if it was made by Apple. I'm just not into Android (yet) and feel that Apple's fit and finish is superior to anyone's.

I'm married to Apple's style and ecosystem. If Jony Ive moved to Samsung I'd be switching, quick!

But oh, that screen (size)...

Agreed
`````````````````

The only reason that GS3 sells is because Apple's iPhone 5 screen is 'so small' compared to it.
I never use my iPhone 5with 1 hand. Heck - I text with 2 hands (my thumbs)

Apple needs to get with the program and make the iPhone 6 a 4.5-4.8" 16:9 screen.

THAT ALONE would = total cell phone dominance
__________________
PSN: DonVCorleone
The U - NY Mets - NY Giants - Miami Heat

Quote Me So I Am Notified
donrsd is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:17 PM   #134
EmpireITtech
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
No, Apple is not obligated to report unit sales for any of their products. For example, they do not report unit sales for the AppleTV. Also, Samsung Electronics is a public company.
so if they don't have to, why get so uptight the these numbers only show units shipped by Samsung? I believe their profit margins have been on the incline and this would suggest they're doing quite well. anyway, i'm getting tired of this argument lol. You're right Apple rulez, Samsung sucks. Only Apple is right, all else is wrong =]

on to the next debate!!!
EmpireITtech is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:21 PM   #135
BaldiMac
macrumors 604
 
BaldiMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmpireITtech View Post
don't remember using the word fanboy, but if you look down you'll see my other comment...I'm asking do you ever see these articles and see that Samsung is catching up? or do you immediately discount them bc you love only Apple products?

BTW, I really do love both products, heck, my Mac Thunderbolt screen is just ridiculously good
Of course they are catching up. I'm actually impressed with the S3 sales. I did not think that any one Android device could dominate the market like it is. However, I enjoy discussing the misinformation and unsupported conclusions that people jump to when it comes to Apple. Posting on MacRumors to say "Samsung is doing great" isn't really that interesting to me.

I'll ask again, do you actually disagree with anything that I said earlier in this thread?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmpireITtech View Post
so if they don't have to, why get so uptight the these numbers only show units shipped by Samsung?
Uptight? You're projecting a bit there! All I said is that these shipment estimates don't support the conclusion that the S3 sold more that the iPhone 4S during Q3.

Quote:
I believe their profit margins have been on the incline and this would suggest they're doing quite well. anyway, i'm getting tired of this argument lol. You're right Apple rulez, Samsung sucks. Only Apple is right, all else is wrong =]
I never said any of that. You're arguing with a strawman there.
BaldiMac is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:26 PM   #136
Oletros
macrumors 603
 
Oletros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PremiÓ de Mar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
It doesn't cost the retailer anything. The manufacturer pays for shipping and has to issue a credit to the retailer.

So yes, they do this quarter after quarter after quarter.
And then Samsung revenues from smartphones grow quarter after quarter because it flows retailers and they return a lot of smartphones.

Do you see that your argument is totally wrong and the more you use it the more clear it is that is BS

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalbir4444 View Post
If you look at Samsung's profit margins for Q3, it is quite likely that they actually SOLD this many phones, and not just shipped them.
Retailers are flowing Samsung with money and Samsung returns it next quarter.

You don't understand, you have to read what Ryth says, he knows a lot


/s
Oletros is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:28 PM   #137
EmpireITtech
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
Of course they are catching up. I'm actually impressed with the S3 sales. I did not think that any one Android device could dominate the market like it is. However, I enjoy discussing the misinformation and unsupported conclusions that people jump to when it comes to Apple. Posting on MacRumors to say "Samsung is doing great" isn't really that interesting to me.

I'll ask again, do you actually disagree with anything that I said earlier in this thread?
Nope, I'm converted. I threw my S3 against the wall and told all my personal contacts to call me on my iPhone5 work phone.

BTW, you know I never said you were wrong anywhere, but rather that you seemed to deny that Samsung was having almost an equally great year as Apple by the harsh criticism you gave to anyone who said something seemingly pro-samsung. In the end, it doesnt matter. I buy my products based on what I like, not bc the company I buy them from reports their sales numbers. I'd have to buy a Wii if that was the case. Instead of going after people, maybe just see that there are other opinions out there that might be valid. I really dont wanna continue bc this is a great forums and place to get tech news and I dont wanna get a harsh email from the moderators that I'm being mean bc I meant this as nicely as I could
EmpireITtech is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:31 PM   #138
lilo777
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
And the issue with this is that it's not an accurate measurement of end sale to customer...

Retailers can return unsold units for a refund. That's how retail works.

With Samsung since they produce many of the components for their devices so they can take back the units without taking much of a loss vs other manufacturers of devices.

Like it was revealed in the court case...

The figures do not appear to show how many Samsung devices were returned from carriers or retailers because they did not sell.

People continue to ignore this major fact. Samsung should be forced to reveal, as all manufacturers should, product returned due to no sales.
As they do not show how many phones were returned by retailers to Apple. So what's your point? The only reason retailers would return new phone like SGSIII is if there were any technical issues (returned by customers). This happens with Samsung, Apple and everybody else out there. It probably happens more with iPhones for thy are assembled in China (as opposed to SGSIIIs being assembled in Korea).
lilo777 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:33 PM   #139
BaldiMac
macrumors 604
 
BaldiMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmpireITtech View Post
but rather that you seemed to deny that Samsung was having almost an equally great year as Apple by the harsh criticism you gave to anyone who said something seemingly pro-samsung.
Except I never did that. I think you simply assumed that was my position.
BaldiMac is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:37 PM   #140
nazaar
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
As a former Galaxy owner (had a iPhone 4 then switched to a Galaxy class phone then back to iPhone 5) I can honestly say that Samsung does NOT make a better phone. But to each his own... I'm as happy as a pig in mud with my 5 and will never buy another Samsung phone.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	be-happy.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	267.0 KB
ID:	375905  
nazaar is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:40 PM   #141
kdarling
macrumors G5
 
kdarling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Device engineer 30+ yrs, touchscreens 23+.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo63 View Post
Apple reports how many devices that they actually SELL to the end user.
That is one of the biggest myths repeated on the internet. As any real Apple follower knows:

APPLE REPORTS SALES TO RETAILERS, IN ADDITION TO THEIR OWN STORE SALES TO END USERS.

In fact, Apple reports a sale the moment a unit ships to a retailer. (Returns are accounted for separately.)

Quote:
Samsung (and others) keep reporting what they SHIP not what was actually SOLD to the end user Why? This skews public perception into thinking that their products are in much higher demand than they actually are.
The same thing sometimes happens with Apple.

Such overly optimistic retail buying is exactly what happened with Apple's sales reports TWICE this year so far, as pointed out in their quarterly calls. The two cases this year so far were:

Sales of iPhones dropped off almost 3 million between the first and second calendar quarters and Apple was asked what happened. Cook responded that sell-in to retail stores was larger than the sell-through to end users in the first quarter, and thus stores bought fewer phones the next quarter, as they had about a million and a half extra sitting on their shelves already.

Again, in the most recent quarterly call, Cook explained a similar drop in iPad sales using the same reason: stores had overbought inventory.

TL;DR - Apple also reports shipments to stores. Apple also runs into the situation where sell-through is less than sell-in to retailers, which makes their sales figures look extra good one quarter, and extra bad the next.
kdarling is offline   7 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:43 PM   #142
EmpireITtech
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdarling View Post
That one of the biggest myths repeated on the internet. As any real Apple follower knows:

APPLE REPORTS SALES TO RETAILERS, IN ADDITION TO THEIR OWN STORE SALES TO END USERS.

In fact, Apple reports a sale the moment a unit ships to a retailer. (Returns are accounted for separately.)



The same thing sometimes happens with Apple.

Such overly optimistic retail buying is exactly what happened with Apple's sales reports TWICE this year so far, as pointed out in their quarterly calls.

Sales of iPhones dropped off almost 3 million between the first and second calendar quarters and Apple was asked what happened. Cook responded that sell-in to stores was larger than the sell-through to end users in the first quarter, and thus stores bought fewer phones the next quarter, as they had about a million and a half extra sitting on their shelves already.

Again, in the most recent quarterly call, Cook explained a similar drop in iPad sales using the same reason: stores had overbought inventory.

TL;DR - Apple also reports shipments to stores. Apple also runs into the situation where sell-through is less than sell-in to retailers, which makes their sales figures look extra good one quarter, and extra bad the next.
They'll never listen, you're wasting your time. All will say Apple reports sales! And Samsung inflates their numbers!

Last edited by EmpireITtech; Nov 8, 2012 at 01:45 PM. Reason: add more
EmpireITtech is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:48 PM   #143
BaldiMac
macrumors 604
 
BaldiMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdarling View Post
That one of the biggest myths repeated on the internet. As any real Apple follower knows:

APPLE REPORTS SALES TO RETAILERS, IN ADDITION TO THEIR OWN STORE SALES TO END USERS.

In fact, Apple reports a sale the moment a unit ships to a retailer. (Returns are accounted for separately.)



The same thing sometimes happens with Apple.

Such overly optimistic retail buying is exactly what happened with Apple's sales reports TWICE this year so far, as pointed out in their quarterly calls.

Sales of iPhones dropped off almost 3 million between the first and second calendar quarters and Apple was asked what happened. Cook responded that sell-in to stores was larger than the sell-through to end users in the first quarter, and thus stores bought fewer phones the next quarter, as they had about a million and a half extra sitting on their shelves already.

Again, in the most recent quarterly call, Cook explained a similar drop in iPad sales using the same reason: stores had overbought inventory.

TL;DR - Apple also reports shipments to stores. Apple also runs into the situation where sell-through is less than sell-in to retailers, which makes their sales figures look extra good one quarter, and extra bad the next.
Sure, but as we have discussed before, Apple also discloses it's channel inventory during it's quarterly earning call. So they are significantly more transparent than these shipping estimates from SA and the rest.

For the specific topic of this thread, Samsung was increasing channel inventory of the S3 during Q3 while Apple was decreasing channel inventory of the 4S. Samsung sold less than they shipped, while Apple sold more than they shipped. So the claim that the S3 was the best selling smartphone during Q3 was unsupported at best.
BaldiMac is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:50 PM   #144
jedmonds
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
So, if Samsung products do not sell how would one explain the fact that in the same Q3 Samsung had almost as high profits as Apple? There are too many factors that negate your argument even to bother to list them here. They've been provided many times on this forum before. Just admit it - Samsung did it. For a long time people were saying that the reason why Samsung sells twice as many smart phones a s Apple is because they have so many models. But iPhone still was and always would be the most popular phone model. Well, not anymore. And sure, iPhone 5 will beat SGSIII in Q4 but then Samsung will come on top again.
I would think Samsungs profits come from inventory bought by retailers, not the end user.
jedmonds is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:54 PM   #145
lsvtecjohn3
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: May 2008
Congrats to Samsung the G3 is a great phone... I'll be even more impressed with Samsung if the G3 outsells the iPhone 5 this quarter, but I doubt that's going to happen.

I don't know thy people are saying if you add the iPhone 4S &5 combined the iPhone would out sale the G3 and Note. This isn't about a line of phone sells numbers. If it was the galaxy line up would still out sell the iPhone line up
lsvtecjohn3 is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 01:55 PM   #146
Constable Odo
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
No matter what Samsung does, Apple has to continue to sell more and more devices. But in order to do that, Tim Cook has to get the supply chain in order. Apple can't just sit back and tell consumers they're out of stock of iPhones. Apple has to do a lot better to fulfill demand for their products. Apple has about $120 billion at its disposal. With that amount of money, why can't Apple manage to ramp up production as quickly as Samsung does. Are Apple's production standards too high? Maybe Apple should consider ease of assembly into part of their design structure.

Apple should know full well that if they can't produce more product over each quarter Wall Street will punish shareholders. Hopefully this problem is just due to Apple switching suppliers and moving away from Samsung. I only hope Apple made the right decision. It keeps dumping partners and Apple seems to be suffering from major repurcussions. Maybe Apple should start building its own fully automated assembly plants.
Constable Odo is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:00 PM   #147
HannKett
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Europe
I am one of those that bought the S3 for my wife. She threw it in my face, and said what a piece of cr@p.

So I got her a iphone 5 and she is happy again.

It was a interesting experience to try the android flagship and it isn't that great, compared to the iphone /iOS experience.
HannKett is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:06 PM   #148
Piggie
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan20 View Post
SHIPMENTS not sales...
Yes, cos if you had a phone shop with 50 phones in stock, then naturally your would order another 50 for stock when you were not selling any.

I don't understand why people still grasp as this idiotic comment.
Oh they are not sold, just in stock.

Who orders more stock from manufacturers unless they are selling them and need more stock?
__________________
Amiga 500, N64, Dreamcast, Gamecube, Xbox360 Slim 250GB, PS3, Nokia 6210, 3 Home Made PC's, Adidas Watch, Nikon + Fuji Cameras, 32GB iPad, Furry Pigs (mainly pink!)
Piggie is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:09 PM   #149
frayne182
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by HannKett View Post
I am one of those that bought the S3 for my wife. She threw it in my face, and said what a piece of cr@p.

So I got her a iphone 5 and she is happy again.

It was a interesting experience to try the android flagship and it isn't that great, compared to the iphone /iOS experience.
women just don't know hot to appreciate a good gift.

I would of drop kicked her right then and there.
__________________
Custom Gaming PC ; Google Nexus 7 ; iPhone4 ; iPhone5
frayne182 is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:13 PM   #150
BaldiMac
macrumors 604
 
BaldiMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piggie View Post
Yes, cos if you had a phone shop with 50 phones in stock, then naturally your would order another 50 for stock when you were not selling any.

I don't understand why people still grasp as this idiotic comment.
Oh they are not sold, just in stock.

Who orders more stock from manufacturers unless they are selling them and need more stock?
Maybe if you read the thread you might get an explanation that applies to this specific case.
BaldiMac is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
iPhone 5 and 4S Top Samsung Galaxy S III in Worldwide Smartphone Shipments in 4Q 2012 MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 221 Feb 22, 2013 11:20 AM
Samsung Galaxy S III dethrones iPhone 4S as smartphone sales champ for Q3 2012 Tarzanman Alternatives to iOS and iOS Devices 59 Nov 10, 2012 10:59 AM
Apple adds Samsung's flagship Galaxy S III, Galaxy Note to 'Galaxy Nexus' complaint Dolorian Apple, Industry and Internet Discussion 111 Sep 4, 2012 11:36 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:26 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC