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Old Nov 8, 2012, 02:21 PM   #26
apolloa
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Originally Posted by jinnj View Post
If you ever read anything but headlines you would know that the Apple pays more for their manufacturer's employees than the other companies.
Yeah, I'll ensure I totally ignore all the child labour story's because Apple is just magic
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 03:04 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by melendezest View Post
Sorry, I'd love to see that, but we need to let that notion go.

Not going to happen. Economics 101.
I know it isn't... Apple is only making a hexabigazilon dollars as it is, and moving production to the US would severely run them into the red. They would be taking a 10% loss on infinite revenue, which clearly is not acceptable.

Last edited by nickn; Nov 8, 2012 at 03:21 PM.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 03:17 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by hobo.hopkins View Post
That's right. How dare a business like money? They should just close and give all of their money to charity; that would certainly help the United States, right?
True...... The more money a company makes the more Obama will tax and give to those who are to lazy to work.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 03:31 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by nickn View Post
If they are going to charge massive amounts for lightning accessories, they might as well put in a requirement that products must be made in the US. OSHA would take care of the rest, employees would be getting a decent wage, and our economy wouldn't suck as much.
And they'd have to double the price.

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Originally Posted by apolloa View Post
It would be nice if Apple was actually capable of ensuring it's OWN devices are capable of meeting a manufacturing responsibility code! Hypocritical much Apple???
They are... far far more than any competitor.

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Originally Posted by apolloa View Post
Yeah, I'll ensure I totally ignore all the child labour story's because Apple is just magic
Get real with the child labor stories. At what age do you think farmer children start roughing it in the fields? I personally had my kid on my business payroll when he was 8, and he loved it. It gave meaning to his life other than constant studying, and he's grown up with a great work ethic. The idea that kids shouldn't be allowed to work is crazy.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 03:37 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post
By making it _harder_ for companies to make compliant products? I would say its more about raising the bar of quality and economic benefit. Sure, more costly at the consumer end, but more requirements filters out some of the junky products that fill store shelves. That can't be a bad thing.
I don't mind cheap 3rd party accessories
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 03:46 PM   #31
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Oh god...

Its getting like car manufactures.


I don't mind cheap either, but you get what you pay for when they don't work.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 03:52 PM   #32
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True...... The more money a company makes the more Obama will tax and give to those who are to lazy to work.
or go to school?
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 05:15 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by JHankwitz View Post
Get real with the child labor stories. At what age do you think farmer children start roughing it in the fields? I personally had my kid on my business payroll when he was 8, and he loved it. It gave meaning to his life other than constant studying, and he's grown up with a great work ethic. The idea that kids shouldn't be allowed to work is crazy.
If you weren't breaking child labour laws, what your kid was doing was pretty much a hobby. Or do you think those kids go to school and do a couple of hours of work a few days a week after finishing homework? You know, not too much so they still have energy for football practise? Right.


Yes, Apple is reducing child labour in their chain but it's not gone and it's certainly not the only problem.


This is nice, though.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 05:21 PM   #34
apolloa
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Originally Posted by JHankwitz View Post
Get real with the child labor stories. At what age do you think farmer children start roughing it in the fields? I personally had my kid on my business payroll when he was 8, and he loved it. It gave meaning to his life other than constant studying, and he's grown up with a great work ethic. The idea that kids shouldn't be allowed to work is crazy.

WOW! Does it make you feel all big and clever with the fact your beliefs are from the 1920's and you are incapable of being intelligent enough to evolve into the modern world?

Seriously, I should imagine the majority on here would be shocked you are a victorian that has time travelled, your ideology certainly has NO place in the modern world, I guess you think having a certain coloured slave working for you at home is good and normal too? Bet you beat them and make them wear the same clothes for several months? Those sort of things are from the same idiotic backward thinking times.

You are a seriously sick twisted individual, I'm sure society is so much better for having you, NOT!

Last edited by apolloa; Nov 8, 2012 at 05:30 PM.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 05:53 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by apolloa View Post
WOW! Does it make you feel all big and clever with the fact your beliefs are from the 1920's and you are incapable of being intelligent enough to evolve into the modern world?

Seriously, I should imagine the majority on here would be shocked you are a victorian that has time travelled, your ideology certainly has NO place in the modern world, I guess you think having a certain coloured slave working for you at home is good and normal too? Bet you beat them and make them wear the same clothes for several months? Those sort of things are from the same idiotic backward thinking times.

You are a seriously sick twisted individual, I'm sure society is so much better for having you, NOT!
I would agree about the idea behind your bashing.

But I would first get the guys whole story before starting nuclear war on him.

You Sir, are irresponsible.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 06:00 PM   #36
apolloa
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I would agree about the idea behind your bashing.

But I would first get the guys whole story before starting nuclear war on him.

You Sir, are irresponsible.
Yes, I always wait for a person to fully explain why they support child labour and see nothing wrong with it before bashing them

Not a whole lot of intelligence in this thread if I'm honest. But PLENTY of backward devolved ideology.

You very precious and priceless to call ME irresponsible too hahahahaha...
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 06:20 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by apolloa View Post
Yes, I always wait for a person to fully explain why they support child labour and see nothing wrong with it before bashing them

Not a whole lot of intelligence in this thread if I'm honest. But PLENTY of backward devolved ideology.

You very precious and priceless to call ME irresponsible too hahahahaha...
Well, I'm pretty sure he's not the kind to force his kid working 12-16 hours a day

I think it more voluntary from the kids end, and the benefit is hard earned cash.

Actually, I myself did this for a farmer myself when around 10 years old. My own decision. No forcing. And it was pretty cool making money AND having massive amounts of fun being around tractors, animals and hay and what not!
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 06:29 PM   #38
apolloa
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Well, I'm pretty sure he's not the kind to force his kid working 12-16 hours a day

I think it more voluntary from the kids end, and the benefit is hard earned cash.

Actually, I myself did this for a farmer myself when around 10 years old. My own decision. No forcing. And it was pretty cool making money AND having massive amounts of fun being around tractors, animals and hay and what not!
let me repost what was said so it can sink in. You may realise that he was actually supporting child labour making Apple products?

Get real with the child labor stories. At what age do you think farmer children start roughing it in the fields? I personally had my kid on my business payroll when he was 8, and he loved it. It gave meaning to his life other than constant studying, and he's grown up with a great work ethic. The idea that kids shouldn't be allowed to work is crazy.

Nope, no, can't see any distinction between the 16hr sweat shops with 8 year olds and a farm, nope, all I see is approval and justification of it in this comment.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 08:22 PM   #39
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I'm usually on Apple's side, but they really did drop the ball on this. Really. The iPhone5 has been out for months now and they are only now setting the standards for Lightning connector accessories?

For a product that has a life cycle of 1 year, the first accessories are going to be coming out 3 to 4 months after it was first released. That's terrible and a poor example of planning.

The proper way to have launched a new connector would have been to announce it at WWDC in June, set the standards then and then begin putting it in their new hardware as they announce it.

This one's on Tim Cook. Disappointing.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 09:41 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by apolloa View Post
let me repost what was said so it can sink in. You may realise that he was actually supporting child labour making Apple products?

Get real with the child labor stories. At what age do you think farmer children start roughing it in the fields? I personally had my kid on my business payroll when he was 8, and he loved it. It gave meaning to his life other than constant studying, and he's grown up with a great work ethic. The idea that kids shouldn't be allowed to work is crazy.

Nope, no, can't see any distinction between the 16hr sweat shops with 8 year olds and a farm, nope, all I see is approval and justification of it in this comment.

Are you some spoiled rich kid that never had a job as a child? Should we ban kids from riding their bikes and tossing newspapers on people's porches?

Forced child labor is wrong! However, teaching a child the value of a dollar by earning it, is perfectly fine. The fact that you disagree with this boggles my mind.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 12:00 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by deannnnn View Post
Oh right, they like money.
You are acting like you don't. Or other companies for that matter.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 12:18 AM   #42
apolloa
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Originally Posted by Jakuta View Post
Are you some spoiled rich kid that never had a job as a child? Should we ban kids from riding their bikes and tossing newspapers on people's porches?

Forced child labor is wrong! However, teaching a child the value of a dollar by earning it, is perfectly fine. The fact that you disagree with this boggles my mind.
Let's see what we are 'discussing' here, have I mentioned a child learning the value of money? No. Have I mentioned a child doing a paper round although at 8 years old that's pushing it? No. Am I talking about child labour and 16hr sweatshops and the fact the other person implied they support that? Oh yes I believe I am....
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 01:12 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Jakuta View Post
Forced child labor is wrong! However, teaching a child the value of a dollar by earning it, is perfectly fine.
Well , totally agree with on this.

Everyone comes up with different interpretation of child labour. That makes it difficult to come to umbrella solution for all problems.

I think ,As long as child enjoys doing any work,there is no hazardous working condition & physical abuse involved by his employer. Also he should be able to enjoy his childhood. Then,I will not stop any kid from working. Nobody would encourage child labour but if we can't provide them better financial support or job opportunity, we have to turn blind eye to it. (till the situation improves)


Let me add couple of things here
1) My dad lost his father in his childhood & my granny could not support entire family so my dad had to give up study and started working since he was 10 , later on he established his own business . He made sure that my education went smooth & I studied in one of private college with expensive fees. Now I am without any debt , earning decent income to afford iPhone 5 which is beyond reach of average poor Indian. My dad must have made lot of sacrifices in his childhood & situation made him work early in his life but now he is happy satisfied man proud of his hardship.


2) As responsibility towards society , I work with NGO which focuses on educating kids in undeveloped areas of India (chhattisgarh ) . We come across many challenges to get kids in school. There are many reasons for kids not coming to school which we did not anticipate while starting of program

* Farmers cant afford to wages to give for working in farm so their kids join them in farming

*Few kids lost their one or both parents (similar to my father's story)hence have to work themselves. We can't stop them as we are unable to provide better job opportunities. Noone can learn with hunger. Some of them do agree their younger siblings to schools.

*Some farmer worry that if their kids turn out to be intelligent they wont be able to afford higher education fees. They want to avoid disappointment & disrespect from their kids .
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 04:35 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Worldinmii View Post
Sadly, I'm pretty sure you are right! This will get spun somehow by media and the haters as Apple forcing others to do what they want!
You're almost certainly right. Whether we like it or not, APPLE is under the microscope, because of it's high profile, and that always seems to attract negative emotions from certain quarters, because of, shall we say 'envy' perhaps. What are all these other tech companies, who have their gadgets built in the same geographical area, doing, to better the lives of those, who build THEIR equipment? Why do we never hear about all THEIR heroic efforts, to better the world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatMax View Post
I would agree about the idea behind your bashing.
But I would first get the guys whole story before starting nuclear war on him.
You Sir, are irresponsible.
If people are condescending in their demeanor, or appear to be APPLE-hating trolls, it's best to ignore them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHankwitz View Post
And they'd have to double the price. They are... far far more than any competitor. Get real with the child labor stories. At what age do you think farmer children start roughing it in the fields? I personally had my kid on my business payroll when he was 8, and he loved it. It gave meaning to his life other than constant studying, and he's grown up with a great work ethic. The idea that kids shouldn't be allowed to work is crazy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stiksi View Post
If you weren't breaking child labour laws, what your kid was doing was pretty much a hobby. Or do you think those kids go to school and do a couple of hours of work a few days a week after finishing homework? You know, not too much so they still have energy for football practise? Right. Yes, Apple is reducing child labour in their chain but it's not gone and it's certainly not the only problem. This is nice, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakuta View Post
Are you some spoiled rich kid that never had a job as a child? Should we ban kids from riding their bikes and tossing newspapers on people's porches?

Forced child labor is wrong! However, teaching a child the value of a dollar by earning it, is perfectly fine. The fact that you disagree with this boggles my mind.
Agreed. There's nothing wrong with teaching young kids responsibility, the value of money and good work ethics, as long as it is not forced, and a fun and positive experience for them.

Also child labour, in those societies, is an ingrained practice, that isn't going to change overnight, because of our 'guilty conscience'. This will take time, and the onus is on China's labor laws to fix this. APPLE is doing more than any other company in this regard, and it wouldn't be fair to lay all the blame at their doorstep.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 06:44 AM   #45
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Apple only gets bashed by the media

Slim chance of this code of conduct bit making headlines

Or it will get spun as a "closed" system or Apple being control freaks

Of course it will. There's nothing Apple can do right in the eyes of some people.

I don't even have to read the comments here to know that some people will talk about how Apple is to blame for all of America's unemployment problems, and that they should bring jobs back to the USA. Even though they employ tens of thousands of people in their retail shops. And another 20,000 at their corporate headquarters.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 08:15 AM   #46
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It's waterproof? That's pretty cool.
Yeah, if you plan to go diving with it. Better news would be Apple products having Gorrilla Glass.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 10:09 AM   #47
Stiksi
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Originally Posted by macs4nw View Post
Agreed. There's nothing wrong with teaching young kids responsibility, the value of money and good work ethics, as long as it is not forced, and a fun and positive experience for them.

Also child labour, in those societies, is an ingrained practice, that isn't going to change overnight, because of our 'guilty conscience'. This will take time, and the onus is on China's labor laws to fix this.
So, it's all right because they were already doing it? If you go for the cheapest price, you take the blame. Pay a little more and make sure people on the other end survive.

China already has laws forbidding child labour. And it most certainly is the responsibility of companies who seek cheap labour to make sure that cheap labour is actually humane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macs4nw View Post
APPLE is doing more than any other company in this regard, and it wouldn't be fair to lay all the blame at their doorstep.
Apple is not "doing more than any other company". That's just silly. There are lots of companies who have very strict ethical guidelines. Apple is doing something, which is good, so are a lot of other companies. But the problem is still there. Nobody blamed Apple for all child labour, just the child labour Apple uses.

Last edited by Stiksi; Nov 9, 2012 at 10:11 AM. Reason: typos
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 11:42 AM   #48
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Let's see what we are 'discussing' here, have I mentioned a child learning the value of money? No. Have I mentioned a child doing a paper round although at 8 years old that's pushing it? No. Am I talking about child labour and 16hr sweatshops and the fact the other person implied they support that? Oh yes I believe I am....
The person you jumped all over never mentioned forcing his kid to work 16 hours in a sweatshop or your ridiculous argument that he supports owning slaves. Your hyperbole rightly got you called out, and instead of apologizing, you conveniently ignored that part of your post.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 02:18 PM   #49
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The person you jumped all over never mentioned forcing his kid to work 16 hours in a sweatshop or your ridiculous argument that he supports owning slaves. Your hyperbole rightly got you called out, and instead of apologizing, you conveniently ignored that part of your post.
I think you need to learn how to read properly?
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