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Old Nov 9, 2012, 11:20 PM   #51
G51989
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Originally Posted by smoledman View Post
Point is Microsoft is 2.5 years late and even the Surface RT is not up to par. Only 5-point touch, too wide, touch cover is already proven to be flaky, problems with the stock apps, lag issues, worse battery life than iPad and so many other problems.

It's a joke.
Lag issues? Mine doesn't have any, the stock Apps work fine, Office is still in Beta, but mostly works fine. Battery life isn't as good as the iPad, but its also more of a " full computer " than an iPad. I can actually get work done on a Surface.

Such a joke, they sold out of them.

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Originally Posted by giffut View Post
... that's why I wait for the Surface Pro, and then hackintosh it, ha!
They'll most likely doing Secure Boot, OSX won't happen.

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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
No, I don't because that's just FUD. You can just as easily say iOS is a "blown down" version of OS X. .
iOS might share some things in common with OSX, but it can't compete with Windows RT on any level of functionally.

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Maybe. But it currently has FAR less applications.
Well, for people who plan on downloading more than 10,000 applications, your right. All the productivity apps you need to get work done are already on Windows RT, some games to. But I won't game on any tablet, because its ******.

Applications will catch up, maybe not the sheer number of Apps ever will, but I won't be downloading 500,000 apps. ( Most of which are never downloaded anyway ).

I'll also be getting a Surface Pro, which comes with most apps than any other eco system in existence.

Quote:
Do you really not know the difference between an OS and an application launcher or are you purposely spreading more misinformation?
iOS is not just an App launcher, true. But it has very few built in features, and the ones that it does have like, Maps. Don't work.

Quote:
Only if you made up your own definition of the word "multitask".
I did, its called having more than one program displayed on the screen at the same time. iOS can't do this. And why shouldn't it be able to?

Last edited by G51989; Nov 11, 2012 at 09:48 AM.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 06:14 AM   #52
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Ha, I WISH I could instal "only content" onto expanded storage on my iPad. 64gb and I have to forever juggle videos, photos and music around. I'd put another 64gb in there given the chance.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 06:15 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Dagless View Post
Ha, I WISH I could instal "only content" onto expanded storage on my iPad. 64gb and I have to forever juggle videos, photos and music around. I'd put another 64gb in there given the chance.
Why would you want that? Then Apple would have to pay a tiny fee for MicroSD cards.....they need the money....because they love you....
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 06:38 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Liquorpuki View Post
Why the Pro version of the Surface is a game changer

There are 3 tablet markets right now
1 - Premium market, dominated by the iPad
2 - Budget market, dominated by the Kindle, Nexus, and Nook
3 - Midrange market, which Apple is trying to create with the iPad Mini

The Surface Pro creates a 4th market that we can call Ultra Premium, higher end than anything that's currently in the tablet market. x86 CPU, 4 Gig RAM, full desktop OS and desktop sw compatibility

Why is that market needed?

Because there are a lot of power users out there who want the form factor of a tablet but also want to do things other than browse the web, watch movies, and play Angry Birds. They'd like streamlined enterprise integration plus the ability to run pro level software like Photoshop, MS Office, etc. You're never gonna get pro level apps on iOS/Android devices because they're budget markets.

If MS gets the functionality part of the Pro version right, it'll make the iPad look like an $500 toy
THIS..

Plus with the Surface Pro you can eliminate the need for a laptop AND a tablet and consolidate your experience to one device. You will be able to use the Surface Pro as a fully feature laptop for ultimate productivity or as a Tablet for extreme mobility and multimedia. All for a price somewhere in between the cost of buying 2 devices(a laptop & tablet).

Microsoft is betting device consolidation will be the future direction. Only time will tell if it will pay off.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 06:46 PM   #55
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I had the Microsoft surface RT for about a week. I really did love it, and thought it was an awesome little tablet. The deal breaker for me was that it did not support the security requirements for my company's Microsoft email exchange server. I filed a ticket, read up on forums and nothing worked. I finally returned it today.

I was really looking forward to breaking away from this walled garden, but I guess the surface won't be the way out for now.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 07:31 PM   #56
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Without flipboard, I won't even consider it. Flipboard sold me on the iPad, and is a requirement for me to even consider it a usable tablet.
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Old Nov 11, 2012, 07:49 PM   #57
G51989
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Originally Posted by Doc750 View Post
I had the Microsoft surface RT for about a week. I really did love it, and thought it was an awesome little tablet. The deal breaker for me was that it did not support the security requirements for my company's Microsoft email exchange server. I filed a ticket, read up on forums and nothing worked. I finally returned it today.

I was really looking forward to breaking away from this walled garden, but I guess the surface won't be the way out for now.
Im sorry to hear that.

The Surface pro WILL be a way out of the walled garden though.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 08:32 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post
The pro is designed to compete with ultrabooks hence the x86 Arch.
Maybe, but we were talking about Windows RT.

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Originally Posted by G51989 View Post
iOS might share some things in common with OSX, but it can't compete with Windows RT on any level of functionally.
Hyperbole can be fun. Willful ignorance is not.

Quote:
Well, for people who plan on downloading more than 10,000 applications, your right. All the productivity apps you need to get work done are already on Windows RT, some games to. But I won't game on any tablet, because its ******.

Applications will catch up, maybe not the sheer number of Apps ever will, but I won't be downloading 500,000 apps. ( Most of which are never downloaded anyway ).
And I suppose you are pretending that you don't know that the point of having more apps in an ecosystem is the likelihood that you will find an app that works how you want it to.

Quote:
I'll also be getting a Surface Pro, which comes with most apps than any other eco system in existence.
Good for you!

Quote:
iOS is not just an App launcher, true. But it has very few built in features, and the ones that it does have like, Maps. Don't work.
Again, willful ignorance to make your point.

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I did, its called having more than one program displayed on the screen at the same time. iOS can't do this. And why shouldn't it be able to?
Yes, you did make up your own definition.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 09:45 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by smoledman View Post
What makes no sense. With a 32GB Surface RT you only get 16GB free on initial use. With the 32GB iPad, you get 28GB free. That's all due to code bloat!
32GB Surface costs exactly as much as a 16GB iPad.
I've easily freed up about 7GB deleting the pre-bundled apps.
None-issue methinks. Users are not going to be screaming for extra space. Not since you get more for exactly the same price anyway, regardless of whether some optional bundled Apps takes up a fair bit of room.

Quite like my Surface. Windows RT is much smoother than iOS has ever been to me. Now lets get them developers developing Apps for it. If a larger collection of Apps for it is built, WinRT + Win 8 tablets will fly.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 09:52 AM   #60
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The Surface Pro is going to kill it in the enterprise. With full Windows 8 / Outlook / legacy app support, docking stations that turn it into a full-fledged desktop, and remote IT administration... IT departments will flock to these when replacing computers in the workplace.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 10:03 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadbloc View Post
I've easily freed up about 7GB deleting the pre-bundled apps.
Based on the numbers earlier in this thread, I think you are exaggerating here.

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None-issue methinks. Users are not going to be screaming for extra space. Not since you get more for exactly the same price anyway, regardless of whether some optional bundled Apps takes up a fair bit of room.
They would be screaming if it was an Apple device! Heck we had people complaining in this forum about the minuscule amount of space that iOS takes up.

Seriously, it's not a problem as long as consumers are informed. All these comparison charts that compare various tablets should have an asterisk by the Surface built in storage.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 10:03 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Fuchal View Post
The Surface Pro is going to kill it in the enterprise. With full Windows 8 / Outlook / legacy app support, docking stations that turn it into a full-fledged desktop, and remote IT administration... IT departments will flock to these when replacing computers in the workplace.
This. is exactly what I'm hearing, too. It doesn't need a genius to see these benefits and wait...it even has an USB port? Must be some fanzy futuristic tablet.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 10:10 AM   #63
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This. is exactly what I'm hearing, too. It doesn't need a genius to see these benefits and wait...it even has an USB port? Must be some fanzy futuristic tablet.
The future is NOW and sure as hell it dont blend
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 11:14 AM   #64
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Note that the OP made similar comments on the "Windows 8 discussion (And it's here!) " thread on ArsTechnica here. I'm not sure why he/she felt the need to repost on a different forum, and why he/she is obsessed about code bloat.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 11:23 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
Maybe, but we were talking about Windows RT.



Hyperbole can be fun. Willful ignorance is not.



And I suppose you are pretending that you don't know that the point of having more apps in an ecosystem is the likelihood that you will find an app that works how you want it to.



Good for you!



Again, willful ignorance to make your point.



Yes, you did make up your own definition.
Not everyone was
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 02:48 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
Yes, you did make up your own definition.
The simplest definition of multitasking: doing multiple things at once.

iOS can do that. WinRT can do that.
However, an iOS user can only do that in a very limited case, usually involving listening to something and doing something else. A WinRT user can WATCH something and read email or whatever at the same time.

WinRT will let you multitask far better than iOS can.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 03:07 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by GoSh4rks View Post
The simplest definition of multitasking: doing multiple things at once.

iOS can do that. WinRT can do that.
However, an iOS user can only do that in a very limited case, usually involving listening to something and doing something else. A WinRT user can WATCH something and read email or whatever at the same time.

WinRT will let you multitask far better than iOS can.
Absolutely. Though I would quibble over what constitutes "better" for a mobile device.

(The original claim that I was responding to was that iOS can't multitask.)
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 03:15 PM   #68
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My only reservation about surface is the design. Thick and blocky isn't gonna do it for me, especially the pro version. Other than that, I seriously considered getting one.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 03:16 PM   #69
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All this debating is just speculation. The numbers will tell the truth, and time will reveal it's fate.

A lot of people underestimate the importance of software. Without a large selection of good software, the hardware cannot succeed. That's the reason for the failure of the Zune HD, and I predict the failure for the Surface.

"Power users" who intend to use the laptop in ways which other tablets cannot provide, can only account for a small percentage, and won't be nearly enough to make the product a success. It has to sell millions for it to have a chance.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 04:03 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by smoledman View Post
B.S. The iPad is a full computing device.
Yeah except it doesn't have a file system..which makes it a half computing device.

The switch between the desktop/tablet interface is just terribly designed. The RT should be in a tablet interface all the time and the desktop computer should be in the desktop interface all the time. I don't understand why Microsoft thought running hybrid between the two was a home run.

I also think they would have been better off releasing the 'Pro' version first, people would have had a dip into the tablet world of microsoft while still retaining app compatibility.

Last edited by iEvolution; Nov 12, 2012 at 04:09 PM.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 04:10 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by cnev3 View Post

A lot of people underestimate the importance of software. Without a large selection of good software, the hardware cannot succeed. That's the reason for the failure of the Zune HD, and I predict the failure for the Surface.
If the RT has the same selection as what I'm seeing in the Windows 8 marketplace, it won't be failing due to a lack of software.

400 games have been added to the store since I last had this discussion. Then, I said it already had some 900+ titles to choose from. Now it's sitting at 1385. That's not half bad.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 04:57 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by tech4all View Post
That's a very dramatic title.

"...right now and FOREVER."
Actually, it should have read FOREVER AND EVER to be truly dramatic.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 08:38 PM   #73
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Seriously, 8gb's for a full Windows isntall plus Office isn't bad at all.
Are you kidding? This is insane! Android including all Google apps is 2GB at most.

My fresh install of mountain Lion on my Macbook Pro was 7GB and then office is another 1GB ...a full desktop OS is the same size as Windows RT.

It's terribly bloated.

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Originally Posted by thejadedmonkey View Post
Because it's not a tablet OS, it's a full version of Windows. Compare it to OS X or Ubuntu, not iOS.
No, It's not. Windows RT is not Windows 8.

Besides, A full desktop install of Ubuntu including heaps of applications is less than 3GB last time I checked.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 08:41 PM   #74
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If the RT has the same selection as what I'm seeing in the Windows 8 marketplace, it won't be failing due to a lack of software.

400 games have been added to the store since I last had this discussion. Then, I said it already had some 900+ titles to choose from. Now it's sitting at 1385. That's not half bad.
It's not the amount of apps, its the quality of them. They have to have software that is at least as good, if not better, than what the competition has, and also have software that offers things that arent being offered anywhere else.

At this stage in the game, a lot of people have a significant amount of money invested in their android or iOS apps, and all the updates coming to the apps they paid for.

When they jump ship to Windows RT, they need good reason to reinvest more money into new software.

I got burned by Windows Mobile in 2007, and Zune HD in 2009. I wont be an early adopter again. The surface has to thoroughly prove itself before I throw down the $600.
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Old Nov 12, 2012, 08:42 PM   #75
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A lot of people underestimate the importance of software. Without a large selection of good software, the hardware cannot succeed. That's the reason for the failure of the Zune HD, and I predict the failure for the Surface.
Actually, if the Pro succeeds, it'll be primarily because of software. The fact you'll be able to run flagship desktop software on a tablet for once, not stripped down companion apps or third party solutions that require you to jump through hoops to import a proprietary file. This is a software solution iOS can't provide.

Personally I think the software on iOS is lacking. Large selection, yeah, but most of it is not good at all because of budget pricing and app store commoditization. Most of it is disposable $1-5 junk that I'd see in a cardboard sleeve in the bargain bin at Fry's if this was the early 2000's.

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"Power users" who intend to use the laptop in ways which other tablets cannot provide, can only account for a small percentage, and won't be nearly enough to make the product a success. It has to sell millions for it to have a chance.
They can easily sell millions if the Pro expands the tablet market. Much like Amazon did a year ago by creating a budget market. A year later, the budget market by itself is something like 18 million units.
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