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Mattie Num Nums

macrumors 68030
Mar 5, 2009
2,834
0
USA
Apple is a hardware company first, that much is very clear.

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No, not really at all. Samsung did not invent RAM, ARM processors (certainly not the designs that Apple uses), touch screens, or even AMOLED screens.

Never said they invented them. Open up an Apple computer from the last 10 years most of it is Samsung "innovations". You can innovate with out inventing these days.
 

Marcus-k

macrumors regular
Nov 17, 2011
111
0
I'll fix your analogy since it was terrible. If you came to me with evidence that I was infringing your patent, said that you would like to reach a license agreement and I refused, then yes I would say it is ok for you to sue me because that's how the law works...

Even if the patent was obviously too generic (You know, things like using a touchscreen or making a square device with rounded corners) and you'd have to pay millions in defence anyway, money that you might not even have?
 

subsonix

macrumors 68040
Feb 2, 2008
3,551
79
So? The posts you originally commented on were about wether Apple did or did not invent the kind of phone the iPhone is, a capacitive touch-based phone with minimal buttons, which they definitely didn't, and "innovativeness" does in no way change that.

I said that Apple was first to get it right, does that take innovation? Who cares if your first to market if your implementation is failure and your product does not sell as a result.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,779
41,982
USA
Apple spends on R&D

Samsung spends on R&C (Research and Copy)

Really? Was Apple spending R&"D" when they took the look/feel of Delicious library? How about pulldown notifications? How about their recent settlement regarding their clock app? Need I continue?

Both companies spend money on R&D. Both companies use ideas from other tech. None of this is relevant to the thread which is simply about Samsung not willing to settle with Apple.

So let me ask the community this.

If you were Samsung - would you settle?
 

Iconoclysm

macrumors 68040
May 13, 2010
3,135
2,551
Washington, DC
I don't have to. I already have. I've done a lot of research on several tech companies. But you can bury your head in the sand if you like. Fact is - you're wrong. Especially if you think that Apple only patents products.

They patent a lot of things other than actual products. You either know this and can't admit it - or you haven't looked at Apple patents. Take your pick.

Hmm, how do I choose here... Wait, you're wrong...and you're making a **** ton of assumptions if you think I haven't "researched several tech companies" lol.

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Really? Was Apple spending R&"D" when they took the look/feel of Delicious library? How about pulldown notifications? How about their recent settlement regarding their clock app? Need I continue?

Both companies spend money on R&D. Both companies use ideas from other tech. None of this is relevant to the thread which is simply about Samsung not willing to settle with Apple.

So let me ask the community this.

If you were Samsung - would you settle?

No, I wouldn't settle, because I've gotten away with it before too many times...and in Korea, it's business as usual. Especially now that Samsung has the entire weight of the Apple hating community as fanboys.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,779
41,982
USA
I said that Apple was first to get it right, does that take innovation? Who cares if your first to market if your implementation is failure and your product does not sell as a result.

So which product are you referring to that was a failure or didn't sell? The Prada? Define failure/doesn't sell well?

The original iPhone wasn't an overnight success you know.
 

winston1236

macrumors 68000
Dec 13, 2010
1,902
319
Galaxy SIII and Galaxy Note II have already blown iPhone 5 out of the water, of course I know Apple fanbois are not going to admit this.

So if Apple reinvented "Smartphone", why can't the others follow the trend? Please think about this, Edison owned GE, and what would happen if he never allowed any others to open a power station? Do you think we will have hundreds of electrical appliances being used at home today if Edison acted just like Apple today? Simple!

Exactly, at this point the iphone is always playing catchup .
 

Iconoclysm

macrumors 68040
May 13, 2010
3,135
2,551
Washington, DC
Never said they invented them. Open up an Apple computer from the last 10 years most of it is Samsung "innovations". You can innovate with out inventing these days.

Samsung manufacturing is not Samsung innovating. Not to mention, Samsung makes less than 20% of what you find in an iPhone let alone a Mac. And considering a Mac is merely a PC like any other, are you now crediting Samsung with the invention of PCs?
 

MacCurry

macrumors 6502a
Aug 28, 2006
509
182
Way to miss the point. They produce far fewer products, so spread that R&D across the product lines and see who spends more on R&D for each.

By the way, you're doing it again. Total assets are not revenue.

You can slice and dice this anyway you want. Look at total assets or total revenue and the numbers are still less than Samsung. R&D spending per product line is dubious at best. If Samsung spends R&D to develop technologies to cost effectively fabricate SoCs at 10 nm. It benefits all of their mobile computing products (not mention Apple as well).
 

Iconoclysm

macrumors 68040
May 13, 2010
3,135
2,551
Washington, DC
Exactly, at this point the iphone is always playing catchup .

It's a little more like leapfrog, but I know that's hard to see when Samsung releases 10 smartphones to each iPhone.

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You can slice and dice this anyway you want. Look at total assets or total revenue and the numbers are still less than Samsung. R&D spending per product line is dubious at best. If Samsung spends R&D to develop technologies to cost effectively fabricate SoCs at 10 nm. It benefits all of their mobile computing products (not mention Apple as well).

You're the only one slicing and dicing here. There's nothing dubious about it, if I made one product why would I put 20% of revenue into research and development of that one product? It's pointless. Assets are not revenue, that's also a little of your slicing and dicing going on.

If Samsung spends 10 billion on R&D but has 1000 different projects to spread that across, including freighter manufacturing and washing machine manufacturing, how does that benefit the 10 nm SoC?

It may seem dubious because it opposes your argument but these are simple facts that you don't want to see injected - much easier to just use big numbers and make the claim that everything Apple does is wrong.
 

Marcus-k

macrumors regular
Nov 17, 2011
111
0
I said that Apple was first to get it right, does that take innovation? Who cares if your first to market if your implementation is failure and your product does not sell as a result.

Ok, you win. Apple did obviously invent the touch-based minimalist phone despite of not being the first to make one, but by being the first to make it popular. Your original post was definitely relevant to what you quoted and continue to argue about. (I mean, that was what you quoted and answered to first, right? Or maybe you just posted something completely irrelevant to make Apple seem better, more "innovative"?)
 

subsonix

macrumors 68040
Feb 2, 2008
3,551
79
Ok, you win. Apple did obviously invent the touch-based minimalist phone despite of not being the first to make one, but by being the first to make it popular. Your original post was definitely relevant to what you quoted and continue to argue about. (I mean, that was what you quoted and answered to first, right? Or maybe you just posted something completely irrelevant to make Apple seem better, more "innovative"?)

Why don't we go back to see what exactly it was I said.

And phone sucking (subjective)has to be with finger only touch interface in a capacitive screen prior to iPhone exactly how?

And your comment wht it failed comes from....

It's not really subjective (i.e not based on my personal opinion)since the market did not approve. There have been touch screen phones before iPhone, but Apple was the first to get it right. Again, not my opinion, there are sales figures to prove that I'm far from alone.

If LG Prada was a true pre cursor and a great implementation of a touch screen phone then it would have been a success, again sales figures tells the story.
 

Mattie Num Nums

macrumors 68030
Mar 5, 2009
2,834
0
USA
Samsung manufacturing is not Samsung innovating. Not to mention, Samsung makes less than 20% of what you find in an iPhone let alone a Mac. And considering a Mac is merely a PC like any other, are you now crediting Samsung with the invention of PCs?

The manufacturing process is an important part of the entire process and innovations in manufacturing are just as important.
 

Sora

macrumors 6502
Oct 23, 2007
357
127
New York, NY
Samsung is one of the largest heavy industries on earth today, Samsung even involved in building skyscrapers in UAE and some of the largest container ships today. If you just know Samsung of their washing machine, I suggest you should never travel to UAE or trust any shipping company."

That's great that Samsung is involved in so many different industries.

I think the point has been missed. In medicine, we call FP (family medicine docs) the jack of all trades and master of none.
Samsung has so many different branches involved in different industries, but there is not one thing they are know for doing extremely well. The fact that most people don't know that they build skyscrapers in the UAE or involved in shipping only reinforces the point that they don't really excel at a given industry.
Names like Boeing, BMW, Rolex, Jones Lang LaSalle not only have strong brand awareness in the market, but also generate strong brand identity. You know what they make, and what they do. And they are the leaders of their respective industries in which they are involved.

Samsung is involved in many industries - but they are not a leader nor a benchmark for others to aspire to in the market place. This is proven by the fact that they produce so many different products for other market leaders. At best, they are a larger glorified manufacturer.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,779
41,982
USA
Why don't we go back to see what exactly it was I said.

"f LG Prada was a true pre cursor and a great implementation of a touch screen phone then it would have been a success, again sales figures tells the story."

really? So you're saying only great implementations of products become successes. And that if something fails - it's because it wasn't a good implementation.

I guess you're discounting marketing, advertising, brand reputation, delivery channels and so on.

Sales figures don't always tell the story. Not the whole story. Not everything that sells well is the best. Not everything that sells poorly is bad.
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,779
41,982
USA
You can't be serious. You're saying that Samsung isn't known for any one thing they do well?

P.S. I didn't originally write what you're quoting. I was quoting someone else.

That's great that Samsung is involved in so many different industries.

I think the point has been missed. In medicine, we call FP (family medicine docs) the jack of all trades and master of none.
Samsung has so many different branches involved in different industries, but there is not one thing they are know for doing extremely well. The fact that most people don't know that they build skyscrapers in the UAE or involved in shipping only reinforces the point that they don't really excel at a given industry.
Names like Boeing, BMW, Rolex, Jones Lang LaSalle not only have strong brand awareness in the market, but also generate strong brand identity. You know what they make, and what they do. And they are the leaders of their respective industries in which they are involved.

Samsung is involved in many industries - but they are not a leader nor a benchmark for others to aspire to in the market place. This is proven by the fact that they produce so many different products for other market leaders. At best, they are a larger glorified manufacturer.
 

Iconoclysm

macrumors 68040
May 13, 2010
3,135
2,551
Washington, DC
"f LG Prada was a true pre cursor and a great implementation of a touch screen phone then it would have been a success, again sales figures tells the story."

really? So you're saying only great implementations of products become successes. And that if something fails - it's because it wasn't a good implementation.

I guess you're discounting marketing, advertising, brand reputation, delivery channels and so on.

Sales figures don't always tell the story. Not the whole story. Not everything that sells well is the best. Not everything that sells poorly is bad.

This is very true, but I don't think the LG Prada was a very good product. It may have tried a few new things but sucked at the execution.

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You can't be serious. You're saying that Samsung isn't known for any one thing they do well?

P.S. I didn't originally write what you're quoting. I was quoting someone else.

They manufacture like freaking porn stars.
 

subsonix

macrumors 68040
Feb 2, 2008
3,551
79
"f LG Prada was a true pre cursor and a great implementation of a touch screen phone then it would have been a success, again sales figures tells the story."

really? So you're saying only great implementations of products become successes. And that if something fails - it's because it wasn't a good implementation.

No, that is not what I'm saying. But what is wrong with LGs distribution, brand reputation and ability to market their products. It's a strong indicator, it also applies to earlier tablets and touch devices btw.
 

Smallworld69

macrumors newbie
Sep 17, 2012
28
0
Galaxy SIII and Galaxy Note II have already blown iPhone 5 out of the water, of course I know Apple fanbois are not going to admit this.

So if Apple reinvented "Smartphone", why can't the others follow the trend? Please think about this, Edison owned GE, and what would happen if he never allowed any others to open a power station? Do you think we will have hundreds of electrical appliances being used at home today if Edison acted just like Apple today? Simple!

So you have to compare 3 Samsung products to 1 of apples for the numbers to come out in your favor?? The iPhone 5 surpassed the Galaxy SIII after 3 weeks. Try actually researching something before making nonsensical comments.... There will ALWAYS be fans of one or the other. Every person has their specific taste... So stop comparing apples to oranges... (No pun intended)
 

JackieTreehorn

macrumors 6502
May 22, 2005
491
427
Amsterdam
FYI the "washing machine manufacturer" also built this:

Image

... and this

Image
No, they did not. They were just the contractor and this is what a contractor does

Building contractors supervise workers on a construction site, ensuring work is completed according to local and state building codes as well as the architect's plans. Contractors also ensure a project is completed on time and within budget

It was neither designed nor built by Samsung. Regarding the first, much like their phones.

If that building would have been built by Samsung, it would have been plastic.
 

cmChimera

macrumors 601
Feb 12, 2010
4,273
3,762
Even if the patent was obviously too generic (You know, things like using a touchscreen or making a square device with rounded corners) and you'd have to pay millions in defence anyway, money that you might not even have?

They have a patent on it, so....yeah. Samsung has the choice to either license, or fight it out HOPING the patent is invalid. This is how law works. It's not just patents. If someone sues Best Buy because they slipped and fell in the store, Best Buy can either settle, or fight it out. If they choose to fight it out, they may spend a lot of money.
 

bobenhaus

macrumors 65816
Mar 2, 2011
1,025
487
I am quite sure Apple isn't interested either in a settlement - 20% increase in prices for Apple from Samsung, Apple is findings other suppliers for its hardware.

This thing is going thermonuclear, as predicted.

My money is still on Apple - I don't trust a washing machine manufacturer as a phone maker. :D

You do know Samsung is way bigger then Apple and make things like Ships, Cars, Trains and other stuff.
 
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