Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Apple Hardware > Desktops > Mac mini

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Nov 29, 2012, 10:42 AM   #501
Mac... nificent
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Post

It appears that this "might" be a Intel hardware issue with the HD4000 (not a big surprise to most of us). Still need to collect more data to confirm. If this is correct Apple will most likely be replacing the motherboard with a new one that has the new chips, but as I said - more data still needs to be collected before this will look to be the case.
__________________
.
Never say never, always avoid always, and expect the unexpected.

Last edited by Mac... nificent; Nov 29, 2012 at 11:04 AM.
Mac... nificent is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:22 PM   #502
motrek
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac... nificent View Post
It appears that this "might" be a Intel hardware issue with the HD4000 (not a big surprise to most of us). Still need to collect more data to confirm. If this is correct Apple will most likely be replacing the motherboard with a new one that has the new chips, but as I said - more data still needs to be collected before this will look to be the case.
Why do you think it might be a hardware issue that would require motherboard replacement?

Here's some information from people who actually work at Intel:

http://communities.intel.com/message/171244

There's some indication, according to an actual Intel employee, that it has to do with a memory vs. BIOS incompatibility which Apple should be able to fix easily with a software update.

Please post your evidence that you think it's a hardware issue. If you don't have any then I don't see the point of trying to scare everybody.
motrek is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:23 PM   #503
OldSchoolMacGuy
macrumors 6502a
 
OldSchoolMacGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
It won't be a hardware replacement issue. It's going to be a firmware update and that'll be the end of it.
OldSchoolMacGuy is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:37 PM   #504
Mac... nificent
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by motrek View Post
Why do you think it might be a hardware issue that would require motherboard replacement?

First, if you read my post I said several times that this "might" be the issue, not that it is the issue. Why? Because someone on the Apple site had the issue, sent their mini back to Apple, and Apple replaced their motherboard and the problem has not come back Just trying to determine if the motherboard had new chips on it or if anything else was updated, that's all.


----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by motrek View Post
Here's some information from people who actually work at Intel:
There's a better link from Intel which says that they (Intel) are aware of the MM issue and they have sent Apple new drivers for this. I think Apple just needs more time.
__________________
.
Never say never, always avoid always, and expect the unexpected.
Mac... nificent is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:43 PM   #505
jollino
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chieti, Italy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac... nificent View Post

First, if you read my post I said several times that this "might" be the issue, not that it is the issue. Why? Because someone on the Apple site had the issue, sent their mini back to Apple, and Apple replaced their motherboard and the problem has not come back Just trying to determine if the motherboard had new chips on it or if anything else was updated, that's all.
It may be that the new motherboard simply had a (tentative) fix already applied, and it happens to be fixed indeed... besides, a firmware update may work around hardware problems. Actually even the OS itself can do so: the Linux kernel has long contained a workaround for the infamous F00F bug of early Pentium CPUs; at boot time the bug is tested, and if it is present the workaround code is loaded into memory. So we have this:
- Easiest solution: a kernel extension in 10.8.3 avoids the bug
- Easy solution: firmware upgrade for EFI to fix the bug or install a permanent workaround
- Hard solution: recall all the Minis sold so far for replacement under warranty

Since the issue has gone public, Apple has all the interest in having this fixed and is certainly aiming at doing so at the most effective cost, ie. issuing an OS or firmware upgrade.

Also, thanks Macnificent for having stopped writing in a larger font.
__________________
Photographer, translator, web & iOS developer.
Mac Mini (2012) quad i7 + Dell U2212HM; iPhone 5 (32 GB); iPad 3 (32 GB, wifi+3G); Raspberry Pi (256 MB)
http://www.nicolucci.eu/
jollino is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 29, 2012, 01:57 PM   #506
Mac... nificent
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jollino View Post
Easiest solution: a kernel extension in 10.8.3 avoids the bug
10.8.3 was just seeded and it DOES address graphics, so fingers crossed
Mac... nificent is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 29, 2012, 04:15 PM   #507
Carl%R
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Sweden
The reply from Intel on their forum has been edited now. I hope it doesn't mean bad news.
Carl%R is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 29, 2012, 06:37 PM   #508
Rob.G
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NW Oregon
I just had another black screen crash. In fact, I got home from work again and got a snowy secondary screen minutes later. But moments ago, about a half hour after being home, I was playing a came of Civilization V and the screen went black. I heard a "ticking" noise coming from the speakers for 5-10 seconds, and then the machine automatically rebooted.

What's interesting is that I ssh'd into the thing with my MacBook Air and did tail -f on /var/log/system.log just in case this might happen. Here's what I saw:

et up page flip mode on display 0x042490e4 device: 0x10e8a8320 isBackBuffered:
1 numComp: 3 numDisp: 3
Nov 29 16:22:46 Grue kernel[0]: CODE SIGNING: cs_invalid_page(0x1000): p=1827[Go
ogleSoftwareUp] clearing CS_VALID
Nov 29 16:22:55 Grue.local KernelEventAgent[84]: tid 00000000 received event(s)
VQ_LOWDISK, VQ_VERYLOWDISK (516)
Nov 29 16:22:55 Grue kernel[0]: HFS: Vol: Google Chrome 23.0.1271.91-23.0.1271.9
5 Update Very Low Disk: freeblks: 0, dangerlimit: 10
Nov 29 16:22:56 Grue.local defaults[1866]:
The domain/default pair of (/Applications/Google Chrome.app/Contents/Info, KSBrandID) does not exist
Nov 29 16:22:56 Grue kernel[0]: CODE SIGNING: cs_invalid_page(0x1000): p=1857[ksadmin] clearing CS_VALID
Nov 29 16:22:56 Grue kernel[0]: CODE SIGNING: cs_invalid_page(0x1000): p=1860[ksadmin] clearing CS_VALID
Nov 29 16:22:56 Grue kernel[0]: CODE SIGNING: cs_invalid_page(0x1000): p=1862[ksadmin] clearing CS_VALID
Nov 29 16:23:07 Grue.local defaults[4352]:
The domain/default pair of (/Applications/Google Chrome.app/Contents/Info, KSChannelID) does not exist
Nov 29 16:23:07 Grue kernel[0]: CODE SIGNING: cs_invalid_page(0x1000): p=4358[ksadmin] clearing CS_VALID
Nov 29 16:30:04 localhost bootlog[0]: BOOT_TIME 1354235404 0
Nov 29 16:30:05 localhost kernel[0]: PMAP: PCID enabled
Nov 29 16:30:05 localhost kernel[0]: PMAP: Supervisor Mode Execute Protection enabled


When I got the black screen, I looked at the MBA and the last log entry was the one at 16:23:07... the ones starting at 16:30 are the reboot processes.

Am I seeing memory issues causing this? Not sure if this is related to the "regular" black screen problem or if this was game-related.

Rob
__________________
Late 2012 Mac Mini 2.6 i7/16gb/256gb SSD/1tb HD
Late 2013 rMBP 13 i5/16gb/512gb SSD
Galaxy Note 3 32gb AT&T / Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 Edition 32gb
Rob.G is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 29, 2012, 06:42 PM   #509
Mac... nificent
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.G View Post
Am I seeing memory issues causing this?
Intel did mention something about memory regarding this, but not sure if it applied to Apples version or PC's. As you said it might also just be game related. Can you get it to do it again?
Mac... nificent is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 29, 2012, 06:43 PM   #510
motrek
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac... nificent View Post
Intel did mention something about memory regarding this, but not sure if it applied to Apples version or PC's. As you said it might also just be game related. Can you get it to do it again?
There's no such thing as an Apple or PC version of a Core i5/i7 or RAM.
motrek is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 29, 2012, 06:44 PM   #511
Rob.G
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NW Oregon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac... nificent View Post
Intel did mention something about memory regarding this, but not sure if it applied to Apples version or PC's. As you said it might also just be game related. Can you get it to do it again?
I'll try, but it lost a lot of my game progress, so I'm a little burned out on CivV at the moment.

Rob
__________________
Late 2012 Mac Mini 2.6 i7/16gb/256gb SSD/1tb HD
Late 2013 rMBP 13 i5/16gb/512gb SSD
Galaxy Note 3 32gb AT&T / Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 Edition 32gb
Rob.G is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2012, 08:49 AM   #512
Westyfield2
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bath, UK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.G View Post
I just had another black screen crash. In fact, I got home from work again and got a snowy secondary screen minutes later. But moments ago, about a half hour after being home, I was playing a came of Civilization V and the screen went black. I heard a "ticking" noise coming from the speakers for 5-10 seconds, and then the machine automatically rebooted.

What's interesting is that I ssh'd into the thing with my MacBook Air and did tail -f on /var/log/system.log just in case this might happen. Here's what I saw:

et up page flip mode on display 0x042490e4 device: 0x10e8a8320 isBackBuffered:
1 numComp: 3 numDisp: 3
Nov 29 16:22:46 Grue kernel[0]: CODE SIGNING: cs_invalid_page(0x1000): p=1827[Go
ogleSoftwareUp] clearing CS_VALID
Nov 29 16:22:55 Grue.local KernelEventAgent[84]: tid 00000000 received event(s)
VQ_LOWDISK, VQ_VERYLOWDISK (516)
Nov 29 16:22:55 Grue kernel[0]: HFS: Vol: Google Chrome 23.0.1271.91-23.0.1271.9
5 Update Very Low Disk: freeblks: 0, dangerlimit: 10
Nov 29 16:22:56 Grue.local defaults[1866]:
The domain/default pair of (/Applications/Google Chrome.app/Contents/Info, KSBrandID) does not exist
Nov 29 16:22:56 Grue kernel[0]: CODE SIGNING: cs_invalid_page(0x1000): p=1857[ksadmin] clearing CS_VALID
Nov 29 16:22:56 Grue kernel[0]: CODE SIGNING: cs_invalid_page(0x1000): p=1860[ksadmin] clearing CS_VALID
Nov 29 16:22:56 Grue kernel[0]: CODE SIGNING: cs_invalid_page(0x1000): p=1862[ksadmin] clearing CS_VALID
Nov 29 16:23:07 Grue.local defaults[4352]:
The domain/default pair of (/Applications/Google Chrome.app/Contents/Info, KSChannelID) does not exist
Nov 29 16:23:07 Grue kernel[0]: CODE SIGNING: cs_invalid_page(0x1000): p=4358[ksadmin] clearing CS_VALID
Nov 29 16:30:04 localhost bootlog[0]: BOOT_TIME 1354235404 0
Nov 29 16:30:05 localhost kernel[0]: PMAP: PCID enabled
Nov 29 16:30:05 localhost kernel[0]: PMAP: Supervisor Mode Execute Protection enabled


When I got the black screen, I looked at the MBA and the last log entry was the one at 16:23:07... the ones starting at 16:30 are the reboot processes.

Am I seeing memory issues causing this? Not sure if this is related to the "regular" black screen problem or if this was game-related.

Rob
That just looks like Chrome being rubbish with memory management to me and not to do with the HDMI bug .

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac... nificent View Post

First, if you read my post I said several times that this "might" be the issue, not that it is the issue. Why? Because someone on the Apple site had the issue, sent their mini back to Apple, and Apple replaced their motherboard and the problem has not come back Just trying to determine if the motherboard had new chips on it or if anything else was updated, that's all.
[COLOR="#808080"]
Yeah I saw that... but then over on Apple Discussions everyone was obsessed with the amount of VRAM allocated and didn't realise it's based on your DRAM so I'm not sure whether to believe it...
__________________
iPhone 5 64GB on 4GEE
iPad 3G+WiFi 64GB
13" MacBook Air (2.13GHz, 4GB, 256GB) - 15" MacBook Pro (2.4GHz, 4GB)
Mac Mini (2.6GHz quad i7, 16GB, 256GB SSD)
Westyfield2 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2012, 09:18 AM   #513
simon.hibbs
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Until yesterday I had occasional (once every few days) black screen issues for a second or two, then it would come back and be fine.

Yesterday it black screened twice for extended periods. Once for about an hour and again for 20 minutes.

I called Applecare and went through a system power off and reset process, but it didn't fix the issue so they arranged an appointment for me at an Apple Store to have the firmware updated. The rep said they are working on a software fix, but they already have a firmware fix they can do in-store. The appointment is for Sunday morning, so fingers crossed.

Simon Hibbs
simon.hibbs is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:02 AM   #514
jollino
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chieti, Italy
Quote:
Originally Posted by simon.hibbs View Post
The rep said they are working on a software fix, but they already have a firmware fix they can do in-store. The appointment is for Sunday morning, so fingers crossed.
This is great news, please keep us posted!
__________________
Photographer, translator, web & iOS developer.
Mac Mini (2012) quad i7 + Dell U2212HM; iPhone 5 (32 GB); iPad 3 (32 GB, wifi+3G); Raspberry Pi (256 MB)
http://www.nicolucci.eu/
jollino is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:10 AM   #515
Westyfield2
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bath, UK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by simon.hibbs View Post
I called Applecare and went through a system power off and reset process, but it didn't fix the issue so they arranged an appointment for me at an Apple Store to have the firmware updated. The rep said they are working on a software fix, but they already have a firmware fix they can do in-store. The appointment is for Sunday morning, so fingers crossed.
Now that is interesting!
__________________
iPhone 5 64GB on 4GEE
iPad 3G+WiFi 64GB
13" MacBook Air (2.13GHz, 4GB, 256GB) - 15" MacBook Pro (2.4GHz, 4GB)
Mac Mini (2.6GHz quad i7, 16GB, 256GB SSD)
Westyfield2 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:15 AM   #516
simon.hibbs
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Thinking about it, it makes sense that if Intel have provided the firmware fix to Apple but that Apple need a few days to wrap it in a downloadable installer and do some thorough testing.

It's actually pretty impressive that you can just pop over to a store and have an engineer do a while-you-wait manual firmware install for you for free though. Well, I paid for Applecare, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if you could get this done without it.

Simon Hibbs
simon.hibbs is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:19 AM   #517
Westyfield2
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bath, UK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by simon.hibbs View Post
Thinking about it, it makes sense that if Intel have provided the firmware fix to Apple but that Apple need a few days to wrap it in a downloadable installer and do some thorough testing.

It's actually pretty impressive that you can just pop over to a store and have an engineer do a while-you-wait manual firmware install for you for free though. Well, I paid for Applecare, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if you could get this done without it.

Simon Hibbs
I'd be careful that you don't start celebrating prematurely yet...
__________________
iPhone 5 64GB on 4GEE
iPad 3G+WiFi 64GB
13" MacBook Air (2.13GHz, 4GB, 256GB) - 15" MacBook Pro (2.4GHz, 4GB)
Mac Mini (2.6GHz quad i7, 16GB, 256GB SSD)
Westyfield2 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:54 AM   #518
adonis3k
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac... nificent View Post
10.8.3 was just seeded and it DOES address graphics, so fingers crossed
x2
__________________
Mac Mini 2012: i7 2.6GHz, 16GB RAM, Samsung 256GB 830, OEM 1TB HDD, Dell U2913WM
adonis3k is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2012, 12:04 PM   #519
OldSchoolMacGuy
macrumors 6502a
 
OldSchoolMacGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
The 10.8.3 graphics fixes are related to all Macs, not the mini specifically. We'll see our fix come in the form of a dedicated firmware or graphics update.
OldSchoolMacGuy is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2012, 01:20 PM   #520
motrek
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchoolMacGuy View Post
The 10.8.3 graphics fixes are related to all Macs, not the mini specifically. We'll see our fix come in the form of a dedicated firmware or graphics update.
... Which could be easily bundled within a general OS update.
motrek is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2012, 01:28 PM   #521
OldSchoolMacGuy
macrumors 6502a
 
OldSchoolMacGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by motrek View Post
... Which could be easily bundled within a general OS update.
Something that Apple doesn't generally do. OS updates lack hardware model specific fixes in most all cases.
OldSchoolMacGuy is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2012, 03:40 PM   #522
Mac... nificent
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westyfield2 View Post
over on Apple Discussions everyone was obsessed with the amount of VRAM allocated and didn't realise it's based on your DRAM
I don't think it is. There have been exceptions to that rule.

Anyway, Intel has sent the new drivers to Apple. Apple is testing them now.
Mac... nificent is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2012, 05:55 PM   #523
Jig3n
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Just had my 1st hdmi monitor glitch a moment ago.
I've returned it twice and this 3rd time around I didn't get any glitches for 13 days.
The difference this time was I used 10.8.1 the whole time.
Yesterday I updated to 10.8.2 and 24 hours later the monitor blanked out and went all snowy.

I hope that firmware update works out.
Jig3n is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2012, 05:57 PM   #524
iMarvin
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On the internet!
Updated mine through the osx server to 10.8.2 and i don't have no more black screens.
iMarvin is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2012, 06:04 PM   #525
Mac... nificent
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jig3n View Post
The difference this time was I used 10.8.1 the whole time. Yesterday I updated to 10.8.2 and 24 hours later the monitor blanked out and went all snowy.
So it worked fine with 10.8.1?

Why not just roll back to it via your backup? You do practice regular backups right?
__________________
.
Never say never, always avoid always, and expect the unexpected.
Mac... nificent is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > Apple Hardware > Desktops > Mac mini

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Poll: Are you getting random black screens with your 2012 mac mini xlii Mac mini 91 May 1, 2013 12:18 PM
random black screens steph00 Mac Pro 0 Mar 30, 2013 05:18 AM
Random black screens - wait until Apple releases possible updates?? USB123 Mac mini 10 Nov 24, 2012 12:46 PM
Anyone not having Random Black Screens? asimmd Mac mini 39 Nov 11, 2012 06:59 AM
[2012 Mini] Snowy screens, black screens, boot loop max321 Mac mini 1 Nov 8, 2012 08:29 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:07 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC