MR and anti-gay speech

[tobefirst]

Originally Posted by balamw

The specific post you raised was moderated. The details of that moderation, which rules were broken and what punishment was delivered are between the poster and the staff.

Of course. I just didn't want to waste my time, because, as I said, I see similar posts *constantly*, if the mods were interpreting things very differently from how I was. Thanks.

[Vermillon]

It amazes me how gays almost always think they are owed something for being gay, get off your high horse and relax yourself OP, if you don't like it leave the forum ?

[SlasherDuff]

I like Chik-Fil-A's food, does that make me a homophobic bigot? no

I support the Tea Party, does that make me a racist? No

I dislike Barack Obama, does that make me a racist? Absolutely not

I have friends from all walks of life, with different skin colors and views, and I respect them for them being different, as they do with me.

I could care less about generalized statements myself, until I am personally insulted by someone with opposing views. All I can do from where I am sitting is shake my head at a lot of things happening today.

I am getting tired of the "Hey look everyone, I'm Gay and I voted for Obama, bow down to me, cause I am a minority with a voice now!" ideals. Yes times are different than those 20 years ago, yet all we can do is continue on living life as it is, and enjoying everything we have.

That is my 0.02 for now

[Moyank24]

Originally Posted by Vermillon

It amazes me how gays almost always think they are owed something for being gay, get off your high horse and relax yourself OP, if you don't like it leave the forum ?

Originally Posted by SlasherDuff

I like Chik-Fil-A's food, does that make me a homophobic bigot? no

I support the Tea Party, does that make me a racist? No

I dislike Barack Obama, does that make me a racist? Absolutely not

I have friends from all walks of life, with different skin colors and views, and I respect them for them being different, as they do with me.

I could care less about generalized statements myself, until I am personally insulted by someone with opposing views. All I can do from where I am sitting is shake my head at a lot of things happening today.

I am getting tired of the "Hey look everyone, I'm Gay and I voted for Obama, bow down to me, cause I am a minority with a voice now!" ideals. Yes times are different than those 20 years ago, yet all we can do is continue on living life as it is, and enjoying everything we have.

That is my 0.02 for now

You may want to take this to PRSI, because I'm not sure this is the correct forum....

[balamw]

Originally Posted by Moyank24

You may want to take this to PRSI, because I'm not sure this is the correct forum....

Originally Posted by balamw

MOD NOTE:

Please note which forum we are in. This is not PRSI, on purpose, if it doesn't have to do with how MR should identify and deal with such posts please don't discuss it here. Start another thread in PRSI.

As I requested back in post #10.

Originally Posted by Vermillon

OP, if you don't like it leave the forum ?

Please note: even if this thread were in PRSI this type of post is also a violation of the rules.

Insults. Direct personal insult of another forum member (e.g., "You are an idiot.") and other name-calling. Why? Because this isn't grade school. People should be able to discuss or even dispute other's posts without insulting people. You may dispute somebody's opinion but not attack/flame the person who stated it. There are a lot of other non-direct-personal insults that won't necessary get you banned instantly, but depending on the context/nature may lead to post editing, post deletion, warnings, or time-outs. They include telling people to shut up and being extremely or repeatedly rude or sarcastic. It's not your place to tell other users they are not welcome; if they follow the rules, they are welcome. Bottom line -- don't try to tick off others and don't make discussions unnecessarily personal. If somebody else insults you, report their post; their post does not give you a license to break the rules by returning their insults. Although we do not read Private Messages sent between forum members, the rules for appropriate and inappropriate content apply to them as well.

B

[Plutonius]

All post in the PRSI will offend somebody. MacRumors has a good set of rules for posting in the forums and the moderators are pretty good at enforcing the rules. In any case, I highly recommend that people who don't want to be offended stay out of the PRSI forums. I myself mostly avoid the PRSI and, when I do read it, I always vow never to read the PRSI forum again .

[Prototypical]

Originally Posted by Caliber26

I am a gay man and I'm actually disgusted by how sensitive the gay community, and its supporters, have become in recent years. Please, just pull the stick out your *** already and stop whining.

Seriously, though, it gets old. This era we're living in no longer allows for freedom of speech from "the other side". God forbid someone openly states they are a Christian and it is their personal belief that marriage is exclusively for one man and one woman. That person is instantly vilified and classified as a hateful, intolerant, evil bigot. Enough already!!! Not everything is an attack on us. The gay community is well known for its constant outcry for acceptance but how ironic that most gays have ZERO acceptance and tolerance for what others think and believe in if it doesn't support their personal agenda.

Yes, I know there are some real homophobes out there whose intentions are to be mean, cruel, and disrespectful. But you know what, they've been around since the beginning of time and will always be there. Getting your jockstrap in a wad isn't going to change them or their mentality and, if anything, it's going to feed their sickness by giving them the reaction they were hoping for. Personally, I just ignore it. Any anti-gay comments that I think are meant in the form a real attack on me can only be as important as I allow them to be. But if someone (or a group of people) stands behind their beliefs and convictions, they certainly have the right do so. It's a free country and they should not be silenced just because we don't personally agree with what they have to say.

I applaud you, sir.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Truly hateful "anti-gay" speech should never be acceptable (just like ANY hateful speech), but everyone is allowed their own opinions.

[snberk103]

My bottom line is that MR is a private site, and therefore can set whatever rules it wants on whether to limit speech or not. I don't have to join if I find the rules onerous. Also - MR also tries to be as inclusive as possible. That is to say, this is not a site that limits itself to membership from a limited population, but rather tries to encourage membership from a wide demographic.

Therefore, if there are people who feel uncomfortable with certain posts, MR can impose rules that limit those posts. In a private setting, one does not automatically have the right to be rude. This is not MR saying that those people can't express their views... it is MR saying that those views should be expressed out in a public forum. MR is not trying to change the viewpoints of those people.... MR is simply saying that while they are here, on MR, certain viewpoints should not be expressed publicly.

I tend to avoid PRSI, unless a thread I'm participating in gets bumped over to PRSI, simply because I find it often is an excuse for people to express their hate, ignorance, and rudeness. If MR lost the PRSI section altogether, I would not shed a tear.

I wonder how much of the rudeness we see in the technical sections is actually just overflow from the PRSI section?

[ucfgrad93]

Originally Posted by snberk103

If MR lost the PRSI section altogether, I would not shed a tear.

Neither would I.

[annk]

ADMIN NOTE:

We've removed some posts at the end of this this thread because we have to keep it from veering off into PRSI territory. If you see that your post was deleted, please feel free to repost/restart the discussion that was emerging in PRSI.

Let's keep this thread on-track, concerning the definition of hate speech.

Thank you!

[jlgolson]

Originally Posted by Prototypical

Truly hateful "anti-gay" speech should never be acceptable (just like ANY hateful speech), but everyone is allowed their own opinions.

The problem with that is that some people believe the statement "gay marriage shouldn't be allowed" IS hateful speech.

[Moyank24]

Originally Posted by jlgolson

The problem with that is that some people believe the statement "gay marriage shouldn't be allowed" IS hateful speech.

Exactly why it's impossible to moderate PRSI fairly - or in any way that seems fair to all parties.

Moderation in the PRSI - what is hateful? what is trolling? what is an opinion? Can an opinion be hateful? etc... - is a dicussion that will never end.

[leekohler]

Everyone- I am so sorry. I posted this out of frustration and anger. I have been in a bad place lately due to lack of freelance work, I was just depressed and lashing out when I posted this.

MR is a fantastic community. It has always been mostly supportive of the cause of equal rights.

While certain things most definitely get said that I would rather not hear, the mods do a good job.

I did not see this becoming such a hornets' nest.

Please accept my apology. I was venting and it was more personal than anything. I have clearly stirred a pot needlessly.

For those of you who think I can not admit being wrong, well here's an example.

[annk]

Originally Posted by leekohler

Everyone- I am so sorry. I posted this out of frustration and anger. I have been in a bad place lately due to lack of freelance work, I was just depressed and lashing out when I posted this.

MR is a fantastic community. It has always been mostly supportive of the cause of equal rights.

While certain things most definitely get said that I would rather not hear, the mods do a good job.

I did not see this becoming such a hornets' nest.

Please accept my apology. I was venting and it was more personal than anything. I have clearly stirred a pot needlessly.

For those of you who think I can not admit being wrong, well here's an example.

Don't worry Lee. I'm very sorry to hear you've been down, but on a general level I don't think it's a bad thing you brought this up whatever the reason. A lot of the discussion has been about opinions and how they're expressed and interpreted, and I think that's a healthy discussion to have.

[maflynn]

Originally Posted by leekohler

I did not see this becoming such a hornets' nest.

I think bringing these types of topics up is not a bad thing and it ensures that everyone is on the same page so while some may think its creating a hornets nest, I view it as a method to have an open dialog and show that we here at MacRumor's try to respect everyone.

[snberk103]

Originally Posted by Vermillon

It amazes me how gays almost always think they are owed something for being gay,...

You mean like respect and common courtesy?

Originally Posted by Plutonius

All post in the PRSI will offend somebody. ....

I reject that. On those rare occasions when I have ventured into PRSI - because a topic that started outside got moved into PRSI - we have usually been able to carry on without descending into the depths of being offensive. Often someone will come into the thread, and try to be rude... but we ignore them and carry on.

Why I don't deliberately go into PRSI is because the vast majority of posters - it seems to me, this is just an opinion - are simply to enjoy the ability to be rude, juvenile, and offensive. They can get away with it because of their anonymity. I know that there are exceptions. I suspect that any PRSI thread that Lee is participating in is likely to be one of those exceptions, or example. But I have better things to do with my time, in the long run.

[Plutonius]

Originally Posted by snberk103

I reject that. On those rare occasions when I have ventured into PRSI - because a topic that started outside got moved into PRSI - we have usually been able to carry on without descending into the depths of being offensive. Often someone will come into the thread, and try to be rude... but we ignore them and carry on.

What I was trying to say is that there will always be someone who's offended by a post in the PRSI. It doesn't matter what the post is. It will offend someone. This site has a good set of rules and the moderators generally do an excellent job of enforcing the rules. If you don't want to risk being offended, the only sure thing you can do is stay clear of the PRSI.

[snberk103]

Originally Posted by Plutonius

What I was trying to say is that there will always be someone who's offended by a post in the PRSI. It doesn't matter what the post is. It will offend someone. This site has a good set of rules and the moderators generally do an excellent job of enforcing the rules. If you don't want to risk being offended, the only sure thing you can do is stay clear of the PRSI.

That I can accept. There is always someone with pretty thin skin. I suppose it doesn't help that I have a dry sense of humour combined with sarcasm, passive/aggressive tendencies, and just plain snarky-ness.

[Digital Skunk]

Originally Posted by NewbieCanada

Just because a member may believe black men should be allowed to marry white women does not mean he's bigoted or pushing an segregationist agenda, but rather he's voicing his opinion.

What you are saying doesn't apply, because people have believed this for centuries and still do, and as a black man I am more than happy to defend them saying it and for them to be my friend.

I think the word tolerance is something that is lost in today's society. To many, especially on these forums, it has become a word that means being tolerant of what they say because they have said it and they think it's the best way and whatever you think it wrong because it's not what I think.

Originally Posted by Moyank24

Exactly why it's impossible to moderate PRSI fairly - or in any way that seems fair to all parties.

Moderation in the PRSI - what is hateful? what is trolling? what is an opinion? Can an opinion be hateful? etc... - is a dicussion that will never end.

I agree, there is no way to moderate the PRSI thread correctly, especially when dealing with such a diverse crowd of people from all walks of life. I've posted there a few times in my life and have been met with insult, racist comments, and utter bigotry but because none of the moderators feel it was against the rules they've left it up.

Once I post something on the same lines, I am banned for a few weeks.

The forum really needs to be closed. It has nothing to do with technology, or the current social climate in many leading countries. It's a cesspool for members that have nothing better to do but insult other members' culture/faith/sexual orientation/creed/viewpoint/perspective and others, with little to no moderations, or moderation that is biased to the topic at hand.

[ILikeTurtles]

Originally Posted by leekohler

Everyone- I am so sorry. I posted this out of frustration and anger. I have been in a bad place lately due to lack of freelance work, I was just depressed and lashing out when I posted this.

MR is a fantastic community. It has always been mostly supportive of the cause of equal rights.

While certain things most definitely get said that I would rather not hear, the mods do a good job.

I did not see this becoming such a hornets' nest.

Please accept my apology. I was venting and it was more personal than anything. I have clearly stirred a pot needlessly.

For those of you who think I can not admit being wrong, well here's an example.

No you were not wrong. But if you wanna put your tail between you legs now, I guess that's ok.

[rdowns]

Originally Posted by ILikeTurtles

No you were not wrong. But if you wanna put your tail between you legs now, I guess that's ok.

Yeah, if leekohler is known for anything on this site it's "putting his tail between his legs".

[Mac'nCheese]

Originally Posted by rdowns

Yeah, if leekohler is known for anything on this site it's "putting his tail between his legs".

I don't think that's his tail....

[phrehdd]

I think a fair trade would be to ignore someone's gender preference in discussion in return for giving us the word "gay" back. This is one word that has been taken from the English language and distorted. Think of all the literature, lyrics and more that now are now suffering from this gender preference bias. Give us the word "gay" back.

Let Maria in West Side Story sing that she is pretty, witty and gay.
Let Ella Fitzgerald sing that she "feel's so gay in a melancholy way" and so on without it being confused for someone's gender preference.

[Macman45]

Originally Posted by leekohler

Everyone- I am so sorry. I posted this out of frustration and anger. I have been in a bad place lately due to lack of freelance work, I was just depressed and lashing out when I posted this.

MR is a fantastic community. It has always been mostly supportive of the cause of equal rights.

While certain things most definitely get said that I would rather not hear, the mods do a good job.

I did not see this becoming such a hornets' nest.

Please accept my apology. I was venting and it was more personal than anything. I have clearly stirred a pot needlessly.

For those of you who think I can not admit being wrong, well here's an example.

No apology needed Lee, I hope things pick up for you soon.

[mentaluproar]

Originally Posted by phrehdd

I think a fair trade would be to ignore someone's gender preference in discussion in return for giving us the word "gay" back. This is one word that has been taken from the English language and distorted. Think of all the literature, lyrics and more that now are now suffering from this gender preference bias. Give us the word "gay" back.

Let Maria in West Side Story sing that she is pretty, witty and gay.
Let Ella Fitzgerald sing that she "feel's so gay in a melancholy way" and so on without it being confused for someone's gender preference.

Language is fluid.