Quadra 950 booting issues

SirFoxx · Dec 4, 2012

MacTech68 said:
Cool. Now, here is something I've not done for years. I did this once and it worked.

Try the attached disk image. I've patched it so that your model of drive is listed. HOWEVER, the list probably includes other settings for compatibility of certain models so YMMV.

Cross fingers.

It didn't work...Same error...All i can think is that either the drive is bad, there is a missing jumper somewhere on the hdd, or something on the logic board is bad. Do you have any idea where I could get a decently sized drive, thats good, for cheap? They are a bit pricy on ebay...

MacTech68 · Dec 4, 2012

SirFoxx said:
It didn't work...Same error...All i can think is that either the drive is bad, there is a missing jumper somewhere on the hdd, or something on the logic board is bad. Do you have any idea where I could get a decently sized drive, thats good, for cheap? They are a bit pricy on ebay...

I take it that the disk booted but HDSC Setup complains?

It could still be HDSC Setup itself. There are jumpers that perhaps should be fitted, but without another drive to test, I think it wouldn't be advantageous as yet. I seem to recall having dealt with this model of Seagate years ago. There might even be some "mode pages" on the drive that need changing.

It could be worth popping open the IIci machines (if you can get them) and seeing if there is an Apple badged HD in them.

Otherwise, no. It seems old working SCSI drives are fetching quite a premium on eBay.

I might be able to claw together a system to actually look at the drive support problem, but my collection is pretty much locked down making accessibility a small issue.

SirFoxx · Dec 4, 2012

MacTech68 said:
I take it that the disk booted but HDSC Setup complains?

It could still be HDSC Setup itself. There are jumpers that perhaps should be fitted, but without another drive to test, I think it wouldn't be advantageous as yet. I seem to recall having dealt with this model of Seagate years ago. There might even be some "mode pages" on the drive that need changing.

It could be worth popping open the IIci machines (if you can get them) and seeing if there is an Apple badged HD in them.

Otherwise, no. It seems old working SCSI drives are fetching quite a premium on eBay.

I might be able to claw together a system to actually look at the drive support problem, but my collection is pretty much locked down making accessibility a small issue.

I've got bad news for you...when my dad went back for parts that we left there, he looked in the IIci's and all the hdd's are gone

. What is this "mode pages" that you mentioned? And if you can make a system, that would be awesome, but when we go back to the shop saturday, i will look everywhere for another hdd. (I do have another scsi drive, but sadly it doesn't spin up anymore...the arm moves barely, but i think it's toast)

MacTech68 · Dec 4, 2012

SirFoxx said:
I've got bad news for you...when my dad went back for parts that we left there, he looked in the IIci's and all the hdd's are gone . What is this "mode pages" that you mentioned? And if you can make a system, that would be awesome, but when we go back to the shop saturday, i will look everywhere for another hdd. (I do have another scsi drive, but sadly it doesn't spin up anymore...the arm moves barely, but i think it's toast)

SCSI mode pages are a little complex to describe fully, but they change settings on a drive's internal logic. Generally not required but I've seen some drives that did need it.

BTW, could you show a pic of the connector edge of the drive? Are there any jumpers installed there? Preferably, there should be none. That makes it Device Zero, which is generally preferred as the first physical device. The motherboard is always Device Seven, and CDROMs usually Device Three. I don't see a CD drive in your pic.

Also, could you show a pic of your internal SCSI cable from end to end?

MacTech68 · Dec 4, 2012

Additionally, try this attached disk image. It won't allow you to format the disk, BUT, boot the 950 from it then go into the System Folder --> Control Panels, and double click on "SCSIProbe"

This should (hopefully) show you a list of attached SCSI devices. You should see the Seagate ST34530N listed, if it is basically working. If you see garbage characters, then we either have a failed drive or a SCSI Termination issue.

SirFoxx · Dec 5, 2012

MacTech68 said:
BTW, could you show a pic of the connector edge of the drive? Are there any jumpers installed there? Preferably, there should be none.

To save time of a pic, there are no jumpers, and looks like most edge connectors for hard drives.

Also, could you show a pic of your internal SCSI cable from end to end?

MacTech68 said:
Additionally, try this attached disk image. It won't allow you to format the disk, BUT, boot the 950 from it then go into the System Folder --> Control Panels, and double click on "SCSIProbe"

This should (hopefully) show you a list of attached SCSI devices. You should see the Seagate ST34530N listed, if it is basically working. If you see garbage characters, then we either have a failed drive or a SCSI Termination issue.

Bad news--when I open the program, it will open a window with the name of the program, sit for a second, and everything locks up...I can still move the mouse, but can't click on anything...Going to take that as a bad sign.

On the bright side, my dad, at the same shop, found the adjustable keyboard and mouse, and at another shop, found the AAUI to cat5 adapter, apple branded. Now if I can get the hdd to work...

MacTech68 · Dec 5, 2012

SirFoxx said:
To save time of a pic, there are no jumpers, and looks like most edge connectors for hard drives.

Good, so device zero.

Bad news--when I open the program, it will open a window with the name of the program, sit for a second, and everything locks up...I can still move the mouse, but can't click on anything...Going to take that as a bad sign.

OK, since termination seems to be enabled on the drive, remove the terminator that is on the end of the SCSI cable. Try the hard drive on the end of the cable, and check with SCSIProbe again.

On the bright side, my dad, at the same shop, found the adjustable keyboard and mouse, and at another shop, found the AAUI to cat5 adapter, apple branded. Now if I can get the hdd to work...

Wow! Nice one, dad! Those AAUI adapters were very expensive in their day! And an adjustable keyboard is reasonably rare too!

SirFoxx · Dec 5, 2012

MacTech68 said:
Good, so device zero.
OK, since termination seems to be enabled on the drive, remove the terminator that is on the end of the SCSI cable. Try the hard drive on the end of the cable, and check with SCSIProbe again.

Well the program still locked up :/ My dad found a program called superbooter, and it kinda emulates an OS, but it still runs off the diskette. It has the patched version 7.3.5 on it, along with a whole bunch of other programs. Currently I am about to try drive setup 1.5 patched to see if it works. When I try the apple patched, the LED on the hdd stops flickering until it says there is no suitable drive, then it starts to flicker again at a constant rate. If this other program doesnt work, then my dad suggested switching to the other scsi plug on the board

Got drive setup on it, it turned the LED on, and the hdd starting clicking slowly, then the led turned off, and back to flickering, and said there is no drive, but it did see the id number :/ Bad Drive?
Will the micronet utility be able to see it and format the drive?

MacTech68 · Dec 5, 2012

SirFoxx said:
Well the program still locked up :/ My dad found a program called superbooter, and it kinda emulates an OS, but it still runs off the diskette. It has the patched version 7.3.5 on it, along with a whole bunch of other programs. Currently I am about to try drive setup 1.5 patched to see if it works. When I try the apple patched, the LED on the hdd stops flickering until it says there is no suitable drive, then it starts to flicker again at a constant rate. If this other program doesnt work, then my dad suggested switching to the other scsi plug on the board

Got drive setup on it, it turned the LED on, and the hdd starting clicking slowly, then the led turned off, and back to flickering, and said there is no drive, but it did see the id number :/ Bad Drive?
Will the micronet utility be able to see it and format the drive?

Sounds like it is a bad drive, or some incompatibility.

Can you take a pic of the drive setup window, or how does it identify the drive in the "Volume Name(s)" column?

SirFoxx · Dec 5, 2012

Sorry, I can't get a picture at the time...what it would do is look for it, and say in a column that there is no disk, but to the right of it it'd say id, and it would have the id of the hard drive...I could get a picture of just the program if thats what you want.

On a side note, have you ever seen ram like this before?

MacTech68 · Dec 6, 2012

SirFoxx said:
Sorry, I can't get a picture at the time...what it would do is look for it, and say in a column that there is no disk, but to the right of it it'd say id, and it would have the id of the hard drive...I could get a picture of just the program if thats what you want.

Nope that's fine. "No Disk" usually means that the drive HDA has failed. Keep it, in case you find one with failed logic but a good HDA (Hard Disk Assembly - the sealed part).

On a side note, have you ever seen ram like this before?

Yup. Looks like bank switching RAM. Huge stuff for 32pin RAM, but necessary way back when.

SirFoxx · Dec 6, 2012

MacTech68 said:
Nope that's fine. "No Disk" usually means that the drive HDA has failed. Keep it, in case you find one with failed logic but a good HDA (Hard Disk Assembly - the sealed part).

I don't think i will ever come across another one of those drives. The tech department at my school said they would be willing to take a look at it for me, so that is a good thing, but i think they are going to say the same thing about it.

Yup. Looks like bank switching RAM. Huge stuff for 32pin RAM, but necessary way back when.

What do you mean by bank switching RAM? And when I have one or two of them plugged in, so it is in a series of 2 other sticks of regular,4 in total, why would it give me a SIMM error (death chime)?

MacTech68 · Dec 6, 2012

SirFoxx said:
I don't think i will ever come across another one of those drives. The tech department at my school said they would be willing to take a look at it for me, so that is a good thing, but i think they are going to say the same thing about it.

Would you believe I think I have 4 of them here in a tower SCSI case for my 7500/275Mhz. It's been kind of archived in long term storage.

What do you mean by bank switching RAM? And when I have one or two of them plugged in, so it is in a series of 2 other sticks of regular,4 in total, why would it give me a SIMM error (death chime)?

It's possible that one of them is faulty, or the Quadra 950 doesn't like this kind of RAM. The square looking IC is what tells me there may be some bank switching going on. All I can tell you is that is how our memory supplier described them years ago. I never understood nor researched what it meant but suffice to say there is additional logic on the SIMM which some machines don't like.

The real issue is that the Quadra 950 needs -- wait for it -- 4 SIMMs at a time when upgrading RAM. That is, the total number of memory SIMMs fitted MUST be divisible by 4.

Total possible memory is 256MB made up of 16 16MB SIMMs.

SirFoxx · Dec 6, 2012

MacTech68 said:
Would you believe I think I have 4 of them here in a tower SCSI case for my 7500/275Mhz. It's been kind of archived in long term storage.

The same model? Man only if you had a spare drive, and if shipping wasn't pricey...

The real issue is that the Quadra 950 needs -- wait for it -- 4 SIMMs at a time when upgrading RAM. That is, the total number of memory SIMMs fitted MUST be divisible by 4.

Total possible memory is 256MB made up of 16 16MB SIMMs.

I knew that it needed four, but I didn't know the size of the RAM...

SirFoxx · Dec 8, 2012

Just as an update, my dad ordered an apple hdd off of ebay, a school might give me some free scsi drives, but as for the one i have at the moment, i finally got my computer to see it...using Lido 7. The only way it can see it is with the Parity disabled. BUT I cannot do anymore with it because I get two errors:

1. Error on Generic Parameters to Mode Select! then says Format Failed!
2.OSErr = 5 Bad SCSI Command: phase error. Last error (after spamming key) is "You must have at least one Macintosh volume to perform this operation (I clicked the mount command)

I have to spam the enter key and it will eventually go away. On the main screen of Lido, it sees the size of the drive, but for the volume, it says Drive Unreadable! All I can really figure is that the coating on the platter is bad, or something else that does the reading of the platter.

I also tried the over-night test, and right away it stops with the error:

Read error at block 0
Sense Key = $02
Additional Sense = $04

The Seek test will make the HDD light turn off, then turns back to blinking and says average seek time is 0ms...I think whatever tells the arm to move is bad.

MacTech68 · Dec 8, 2012

SirFoxx said:
Just as an update, my dad ordered an apple hdd off of ebay, a school might give me some free scsi drives, but as for the one i have at the moment, i finally got my computer to see it...using Lido 7. The only way it can see it is with the Parity disabled. BUT I cannot do anymore with it because I get two errors:

1. Error on Generic Parameters to Mode Select! then says Format Failed!
2.OSErr = 5 Bad SCSI Command: phase error. Last error (after spamming key) is "You must have at least one Macintosh volume to perform this operation (I clicked the mount command)

I have to spam the enter key and it will eventually go away. On the main screen of Lido, it sees the size of the drive, but for the volume, it says Drive Unreadable! All I can really figure is that the coating on the platter is bad, or something else that does the reading of the platter.

I also tried the over-night test, and right away it stops with the error:

Read error at block 0
Sense Key = $02
Additional Sense = $04

The Seek test will make the HDD light turn off, then turns back to blinking and says average seek time is 0ms...I think whatever tells the arm to move is bad.

Sense Code 02 hex is Drive Not Ready. The additional Sense key really doesn't tell us much more. Sounds like the drive is toast. If the park mechanism was jammed or the drive was suffering from stiction, then the drive would spin up, possibly make some small noise and then spin down. How does it behave?

Good news on getting some more drives. Fingers crossed some work.

SirFoxx · Dec 8, 2012

MacTech68 said:
Sense Code 02 hex is Drive Not Ready. The additional Sense key really doesn't tell us much more. Sounds like the drive is toast. If the park mechanism was jammed or the drive was suffering from stiction, then the drive would spin up, possibly make some small noise and then spin down. How does it behave?

Good news on getting some more drives. Fingers crossed some work.

Yeah, I hope at least one works :/ It spins up, the arm goes " Ca-Cli, Click"...Sorry best way I can describe the sound...Does it repeatedly a couple times, then stops...After that, it doesn't do anything, except stay spinning. The only program that has been able to make the LED turn on, and the arm to move again, is Drive Setup 1.5 patched.

MacTech68 · Dec 8, 2012

SirFoxx said:
Yeah, I hope at least one works :/ It spins up, the arm goes " Ca-Cli, Click"...Sorry best way I can describe the sound...Does it repeatedly a couple times, then stops...After that, it doesn't do anything, except stay spinning. The only program that has been able to make the LED turn on, and the arm to move again, is Drive Setup 1.5 patched.

Hmmm, does sound like some kind of read failure, with several attempts to calibrate, but at least it is spinning up.

Cross fingers for your eBay HD.

Quadra 950 booting issues

macrumors regular

macrumors 68020

macrumors regular

macrumors 68020

macrumors 68020

Attachments

macrumors regular

macrumors 68020

macrumors regular

macrumors 68020

macrumors regular

macrumors 68020

macrumors regular

macrumors 68020

macrumors regular

macrumors regular

macrumors 68020

macrumors regular

macrumors 68020

Our Staff