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Old Dec 5, 2012, 07:53 AM   #251
BaldiMac
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Originally Posted by bma View Post
In this case, the only thing the developer has been deprived of, in a legal sense, is server bandwidth and resources.
And their rights under the law! I'm not sure how you keep ignoring this fact. How do you discuss things in a "legal sense" and avoid legal rights? Legal rights are what gives things value under a modern economic system.

You just keep picking and choosing what legal rights fit your argument.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 07:56 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by WatchTheThrone View Post
I think Apple should create a trial period on all apps because sometimes the "lite" versions don't come with the original apps full features!!
I'm not sure about this. I downloaded an excellent ipad only game called The Room. I was hooked and beat it in 3 hours of downloading it. If you allow returns then I'd get my money back if I was that type of person? Then that to me is, in effect, the same thing as the pirate.

On the flip side, I bought a $50 ipad app which I ended up loving. But the purchase decision would have been much easier and sooner if I could have just tried it first. Its a productivity app which isnt something useful for just a few hours, but there is still room for abuse. Maybe I know I only need the app on occasion. I would just download it and try it when I need to produce something. If they limit accounts to just one trial per app, I'd find a loophole to switch to a temp account.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 07:56 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
And their rights under the law! I'm not sure how you keep ignoring this fact. How do you discuss things in a "legal sense" and avoid legal rights? Legal rights are what gives things value under a modern economic system.

You just keep picking and choosing what legal rights fit your argument.
Again, just because something is unlawful doesn't mean it is unethical. Laws (about this at least) are pretty subjective and 'grey'. No Black and White about it. Or all these people would be in jail.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 08:00 AM   #254
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Again, just because something is unlawful doesn't mean it is unethical. Laws (about this at least) are pretty subjective and 'grey'. No Black and White about it.
I have no idea what that has to do with what I said. I didn't mention ethics at all.

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Or all these people would be in jail.
Why would they go to jail? Not everything that is illegal (or unethical?) is criminal.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 08:02 AM   #255
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I have no idea what that has to do with what I said. I didn't mention ethics at all. Why would they go to jail? Not everything that is illegal (or unethical?) is criminal.
Because you're stating that depriving them of their 'rights under the law' as if it's an ethical issue. Why else would it be a problem? It's an incredibly grey area.

And I'm not sure where you're coming from there. Everything illegal is criminal. that's the point of making it illegal?
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 08:08 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by XboxMySocks View Post
Because you're stating that depriving them of their 'rights under the law' as if it's an ethical issue. Why else would it be a problem? It's an incredibly grey area.
No, I didn't. Again, I didn't mention ethics at all. We were talking about how deprivation of property rights is a form of theft.

Quote:
And I'm not sure where you're coming from there. Everything illegal is criminal. that's the point of making it illegal?
No, it's not. There are many types of law. Criminal, civil, penal, etc.

Running a stop sign isn't criminal. It's a violation of the penal code. You don't go to jail. You pay a fine.

Simple copyright infringement is a violation of a civil code. You don't go to jail. You can be sued by the party whose rights you violate.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 08:21 AM   #257
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I pirate, but I also pay into the system. I pay for:

CDs
DVDs
Netflix
Lovefilm
Blu-rays
Gig tickets
PS3 games
Cinema trips
TV Licence fee
Music Unlimited
Playstation Plus

I feel I am paying enough into the system to warrant pirating a couple of things here and there. I may technically be in the wrong, but on a personal level my karma is balanced and I don't feel the tiniest bit guilty.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 08:27 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by ArtOfWarfare View Post
I've actually found torrents of software I've written. I did two things:

1 - I contacted the web hosts and had the torrents taken down.

2 - I added in some code that assigns each user a unique ID. I can shut down users that pirate the app.

I've never had to actually use #2 before (I've found that only 2% or so of my users use pirated versions, and I suspect many of them wouldn't pay if I shut them down, and they don't seem to be seeding out torrents, so I don't really care,) but I put it in as a safeguard for if I ever need it.
Additionally you could create a duplicate with some nasty additions and serve it up to torrent servers. These things get automatically spread. Muddy the water so to speak. The more mess dodgy versions of your software you add the more unreliable the darknet service for people looking for your software.

Last edited by dejo; Aug 15, 2013 at 09:29 AM. Reason: restored post.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 08:30 AM   #259
phr0ze
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Originally Posted by Jsameds View Post
I pirate, but I also pay into the system. I pay for:

CDs
DVDs
Netflix
Lovefilm
Blu-rays
Gig tickets
PS3 games
Cinema trips
TV Licence fee
Music Unlimited
Playstation Plus

I feel I am paying enough into the system to warrant pirating a couple of things here and there. I may technically be in the wrong, but on a personal level my karma is balanced and I don't feel the tiniest bit guilty.
Yeah, I should be able to steal the car if I pay for
Gas
Insurance
Licensing
Registration
Inspections
Taxes
Repairs
Maintenance

I pay into it enough.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 08:33 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by phr0ze View Post
Yeah, I should be able to steal the car if I pay for
Gas
Insurance
Licensing
Registration
Inspections
Taxes
Repairs
Maintenance

I pay into it enough.

LOL Good reply.

As if paying for a DVD from one company is and stealing an app from a different developer compensates the developer for his/her work.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 08:37 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by phr0ze View Post
Yeah, I should be able to steal the car if I pay for
Gas
Insurance
Licensing
Registration
Inspections
Taxes
Repairs
Maintenance

I pay into it enough.
That's totally different.. Why do people keep using false analogies?
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 08:41 AM   #262
BaldiMac
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Originally Posted by Jsameds View Post
That's totally different.. Why do people keep using false analogies?
It's only "totally different" in that you get to feel like nobody knows you stole something.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 08:41 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by Jsameds View Post
That's totally different.. Why do people keep using false analogies?
So explain how paying for products from some companies is ok while steal from others is ok. As if they are all part of the same system.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 08:50 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by ericrwalker View Post
So explain how paying for products from some companies is ok while steal from others is ok. As if they are all part of the same system.
The stuff I pirate is made by the same studios that are in collaboration with Netflix and Lovefilm, and since I pay them a subscription fee I am lining the same pockets. So yes, as you say, the same system.

Most of the stuff I pirate because it's not avaliable in the UK. If it was, I'd pay for it, but since it isn't, off to the pirate bay I go. I pay for what I can, which is more than most people who pirate, so quit jumping to conclusions.

If iTunes movie store had an unlimited subscription service for all films/TV shows in HD (similar to Netflix's model), I'd be first in line.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 09:01 AM   #265
Jsameds
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Originally Posted by ericrwalker View Post
So explain how paying for products from some companies is ok while steal from others is ok. As if they are all part of the same system.
On another note, the picture on your profile isn't a professionally taken one is it? Because if it is, I do hope you have consent from the photographer to use it with their permission on this forum, otherwise ou would be in breach of copyright infringement.

It does certainly look like a professional pic to me..

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Old Dec 5, 2012, 09:02 AM   #266
BaldiMac
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Originally Posted by Jsameds View Post
The stuff I pirate is made by the same studios that are in collaboration with Netflix and Lovefilm, and since I pay them a subscription fee I am lining the same pockets. So yes, as you say, the same system.

Most of the stuff I pirate because it's not avaliable in the UK. If it was, I'd pay for it, but since it isn't, off to the pirate bay I go. I pay for what I can, which is more than most people who pirate, so quit jumping to conclusions.

If iTunes movie store had an unlimited subscription service for all films/TV shows in HD (similar to Netflix's model), I'd be first in line.
You seem so proud of your lack of respect for other people's rights. The fact that someone doesn't want to sell you something how and when you want it doesn't justify stealing it.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 09:03 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by ekdor View Post
Additionally you could create a duplicate with some nasty additions and serve it up to torrent servers. These things get automatically spread. Muddy the water so to speak. The more mess dodgy versions of your software you add the more unreliable the darknet service for people looking for your software.
That sounds like it could easily backfire when I frustrate freeloaders and they chose to retaliate by mudslinging on the internet. Level headed people wouldn't do that, but unfortunately the web isn't full of level headed people.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 09:07 AM   #268
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Well don't give half-ass, explanation that you pirate stuff and feel good about it. If that's the only option available (find it hard to believe there isn't a legal version, via international shipping or VPN services), then that's another story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsameds View Post
The stuff I pirate is made by the same studios that are in collaboration with Netflix and Lovefilm, and since I pay them a subscription fee I am lining the same pockets. So yes, as you say, the same system.

Most of the stuff I pirate because it's not avaliable in the UK. If it was, I'd pay for it, but since it isn't, off to the pirate bay I go. I pay for what I can, which is more than most people who pirate, so quit jumping to conclusions.

If iTunes movie store had an unlimited subscription service for all films/TV shows in HD (similar to Netflix's model), I'd be first in line.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 09:08 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
You seem so proud of your lack of respect for other people's rights. The fact that someone doesn't want to sell you something how and when you want it doesn't justify stealing it.
Why would someone not want to sell me something? Did you have permission from the University to use that logo as your Avatar?
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 09:08 AM   #270
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On another note, the picture on your profile isn't a professionally taken one is it? Because if it is, I do hope you have consent from the photographer to use it with their permission on this forum, otherwise ou would be in breach of copyright infringement.

It does certainly look like a professional pic to me..

Image

Would you like to see the receipt for the $495 dvd we purchased with 13 sessions on it? I bought the rights to those pictures, thanks for asking.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 09:10 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by Jsameds View Post
The stuff I pirate is made by the same studios that are in collaboration with Netflix and Lovefilm, and since I pay them a subscription fee I am lining the same pockets. So yes, as you say, the same system.
But not the same directors, actors, etc. They get paid too based on their specific film. The studio doesn't say 'ohh we just collect up all our money and divide it evenly to each film'. Its not the same system.

Here is an analogy. I buy 3 movies but I decided thats paying enough but you must give me 3 more because I want them too.

Quote:
Most of the stuff I pirate because it's not avaliable in the UK. If it was, I'd pay for it, but since it isn't, off to the pirate bay I go. I pay for what I can, which is more than most people who pirate, so quit jumping to conclusions.
I get annoyed by this too. But still not justification. And its usually not that you can't get the film/product, its more about not wanting to pay the costs for it. There is always ebay and other methods to buy anything desired.

Quote:
If iTunes movie store had an unlimited subscription service for all films/TV shows in HD (similar to Netflix's model), I'd be first in line.
Well this again just sounds like you can get whatever you want on iTunes, you just don't like the price.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 09:14 AM   #272
Jsameds
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Originally Posted by ericrwalker View Post
Well don't give half-ass, explanation that you pirate stuff and feel good about it. If that's the only option available (find it hard to believe there isn't a legal version, via international shipping or VPN services), then that's another story.
That's your problem right there. I prove you wrong and then you pretend you don't care.

But you have raised a good issue - VPN. It does seem a little hypocritical of you to say on one hand don't take what's not yours, and on the other you're saying I should use a VPN to access the US Netflix catalogue (that I haven't payed for).
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 09:16 AM   #273
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Care to use your wisdom to explain where you proved me wrong? I haven't been wrong about anything in about 7 years, I keep track.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsameds View Post
That's your problem right there. I prove you wrong and then you pretend you don't care.

But you have raised a good issue - VPN. It does seem a little hypocritical of you to say on one hand don't take what's not yours, and on the other you're saying I should use a VPN to access the US Netflix catalogue (that I haven't payed for).
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 09:30 AM   #274
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Care to use your wisdom to explain where you proved me wrong? I haven't been wrong about anything in about 7 years, I keep track.
I gave you an explanation to show you that I am lining the same pockets and you dismissed it.

Your thoughts on the VPN issue I raised?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericrwalker View Post
Would you like to see the receipt for the $495 dvd we purchased with 13 sessions on it? I bought the rights to those pictures, thanks for asking.
$495 sounds like a fee to obtain those photographs on DVD, and not to distribute as you please. Buying them on DVD doesn't give you the right to copy them, much like when you buy a movie on DVD.

Unless you have a document (not a reciept) saying the photographer has passed on his permission, you are in breach.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 09:37 AM   #275
ericrwalker
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Originally Posted by Jsameds View Post
I gave you an explanation to show you that I am lining the same pockets and you dismissed it.

Your thoughts on the VPN issue I raised?

If you use VPN to get US Netflix, at least you're paying for it. You should feel better about that than using piratebay or whatever torrents you use. Is VPN illegal? How about slingbox?

----------

You don't need to babysit me, I have full rights to do what I please with these pictures. Would you like the view the rest of them? I could explain the program, and yes I know the price is cheap, they normally charge over $100 per session.


http://www.sakurawalker.com/albums/C.../photoview.php

FYI, I find you more annoying than BMA and he's on my ignore list, so I guess it's time to add you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsameds View Post

$495 sounds like a fee to obtain those photographs on DVD, and not to distribute as you please. Buying them on DVD doesn't give you the right to copy them, much like when you buy a movie on DVD.

Unless you have a document (not a reciept) saying the photographer has passed on his permission, you are in breach.
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