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Old Dec 4, 2012, 10:53 AM   #601
Sue De Nimes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicBoy View Post
Glued in screen assembly, plus logicboard out to do anything? Epic fail Apple.

It's an iMac, not a fondleslab.
Spot the Reg reader.

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Old Dec 4, 2012, 12:43 PM   #602
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It was done for reasons

My brother is a genius and fixes these everyday this was done because they got complaints about dust after they take it apart between the screen and glass. Apple is just fixing issues before they happen to stop complaints and make it easier and faster to get your computer back when people bring them in. People just get apple care!!!!!
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 02:16 PM   #603
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Originally Posted by Ice Dragon View Post
They do though you have to pay for it with Applecare. Perhaps reduce the cost of Applecare across the board for all models.
Applecare for a 21 inch is only 169 for 3 years, lower with a student discount. Its really not that much...Best Buy is 269, and doubtful they have student discounts. plus you have to deal with best buy, the most infuriatingly out of touch company in tech sales

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Originally Posted by Sacird View Post
None sadly. Only if consumers didn't buy up the mini at all and non stop requested an actual mid tower over that gimmicky thing. Okay I started laughing a bit to much, Apple consumers not buying any product Apple makes is a real stretch. They have the "wii" casual crowd now, just shove i3's in the entry level stuff and make a hundred more profit. Tim should stop being a female organ and do it.
This is incorrect, there are no Macs with i3 processors in them
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 04:33 PM   #604
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Originally Posted by trakh View Post
Hello MacRumors community. I've been a spectator to the blog and forums here for years. Decided I'd finally join, unfortunately my first posts will be to voice my disappointment in the new iMacs.

I've owned Macbook Pros since the first, right at the switch from Intel. Hackintoshed my girlfriends Dell before that. Have been a pretty big fan of OS X and iTunes up until the last year or so.

I'm sad to see Apple is no longer a company that builds quality computers like they once did. They are relying on gimmicks or cheap thrills or 'wow factor' like the retina display (powered by inadequate hardware for decent performance on the MBPr) or the ultra-thin desktop.

I am unfortunately "forced" to buy Mac computers to continue software development on the iOS platform. I've been waiting patiently for this iMac release with eyes set on the 27-inch model. But with all the effort Apple puts into stopping any long term use by means of user upgradability (bad enough it's an all-in-one), this iMac is not for me.

Apple is no longer a company I want to support. I will still buy a Mac for iOS development, but it will be the cheapest I can. It might be the last.

The only thing that Apple hears is dollars and sales. Unless you want to support these greedy choices to make crippled short-life products, I urge others to speak with their wallets as well.

Besides, Windows is really good these days.
I'm sorry, but you obviously have not been around to see that this iMac is EXACTLY the company that Apple has always been.

1. Apple has always dictated to users what they want. Guess who ditched the 3.5 first? Apple burns through connection standards faster than anyone else, USB, Firewire 400, Firewire 800, Thunderbolt, Lightning, 30-Pin.

2. Apple has totally switched platforms at least 2 times since I've been a Mac user. Each time they support the legacy platform for a minimum amount of time and then completely, 100% drop support. OS 9 > OS X. PPC > Intel.

3. Apple computers since the return of Jobs have been about trying to achieve a balance between aesthetics and performance. The G4 Cube was underpowered, overpriced, but gorgeous. My first Mac laptop was a G4 Powerbook Titanium. Gorgeous machine, but WHEN one of the wimpy hinges inevitably failed, you had to pay for a costly repair because the screen was (surprise, surprise) glued to the bezel. Or hack it up yourself and repair it with an epoxy.

Apple is and always will be a premium computing brand. Being in the Mac OS world means you have to just accept that it will cost more in the long run, and you will have to be willing to swallow what Apple gives you each time.

However, saying that Apple doesn't build quality computers is ridiculous. They may not have the specs you want, but they push manufacturing to its very limit. They use higher quality materials than any other manufacturer.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 04:55 PM   #605
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Originally Posted by blimey48 View Post
This is incorrect, there are no Macs with i3 processors in them
This is wrong. There are. Education specials of yesteryear. Not yet for this iteration of iMac but pretty sure there was for the 2010 iMac for sure. Maybe even the 2011?

As you can see even here where the 2011 iMac with i3 shows up in the benchmarks

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1499395

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Old Dec 4, 2012, 09:02 PM   #606
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Originally Posted by swester View Post
Exactly. I'd estimate that 99% of computer users would never even consider attempting to repair or upgrade their own computer hardware anyway.
You don't have to fix your car yourself. Main point is that it has to be fixed. Usually by someone else. Making that harder will cost you more.
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Originally Posted by G51989 View Post
Or do what HP does?
Image
Why can't the iMac be like that? Isn't Apple about engineering and making the best product possible for the money? So why can't an iMac be easily upgraded?
Its all about looks with Apple these days.
Apple is making this for short term profits.
They get much higher profits for making disposable computers.
People need to buy more AppleCare, since they can't repair macs by themselves any more. It will cost Apple a whole lot more to fix these new macs under AppleCare, but they get more profits by selling more ram and storage. Suddenly Apple has became like HP, which get most of its profits by selling ink to printers.
A mac buyer used to buy enough ram and storage for now and upgrade later if needed. Now they have to max ram and storage at the start even if they don't need them now and Apple is charging quadruple prices for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryDJP View Post
And I doubt customers will walk away from a non-user-servicable iMac. Don't get upset man, the other companies are going to follow suit. Don't think they won't, they will, that have. Almost every decision Apple makes the other companies follow right behind.
Most pc makers are not following Apple on taking away features, expandability and repairability. Many new pc's have still vga and other legacy ports and nobody has problem with them. On most pc's you can still change ram and storage by yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shin3r View Post
Then. Don't. Buy. It.
If Apple would just license osX out, everybody would just be happy.
Not that they even have to care about osX and macs anymore.
They are making about 3% of their revenue from desktops and probably a lot less of their profits, desktop computers are any longer only a PR thing for Apple.
Bad repairability and expandability of macs will drop their resale value fast and in few years people will buy less of them because of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman0616 View Post
I have to ask because I ask every time--who gives a s*** what iFixit thinks other than iFixit? Why is their opinion even relevant? Take the thing to an Apple store--problem solved.
And when many countries does not have even single Apple store this isn't so easy thing to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDoe98 View Post
I don't know if you remember the 90s, but my desk and the tower underneath it, was an abysmal mess of wires all over the place.
These new iMac "none-in-ones" will became abysmal mess of wires and boxes; external GPU, external ODD, external HDD, external SSD, and so on...
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDoe98 View Post
Ivy Bridge maxes out at 32gbs doesn't it? Why do you need user replaceable memory if you can just max it out from day 1?
Since you can't be sure now if you need 16GB or 32GB in 2015 with 10.9.
So why pay Apple 4 times as much for that additional 16GB that you might not even need? Really, why? Because Apple does not give you any choise...
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post
Well for one, removing the air gap between LCD and glass reduces reflection.
Still, the real matte screen would be much less reflective. But hey, you couldn't advertise how nicely the glass is glued to lcd, if there's no glass...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Confuzzzed View Post
On the HDD user interchangeability, I feel your pain. BUT it only applies to 0.01% of iMac users.
100% of hdd's will break some day. And many would like to have bigger and faster hdd/ssd even if the old one hasn't died yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
For the best way to buy Macs is this. Buy the most expensive model you can afford and make sure you get AppleCare, typically within the first year or two a replacement model comes out. When you buy the computer, keep it in imaculate condition, with a good surge protector/UPS (Tripp Lite, CyberPower, APC) all make nice ones. Also keep ALL of the packaging. Then after the next model gets announced, figure out how much the system you is worth, sell it and buy the model that replaces it. The AppleCare warranty is transferable, which increases the resale value because whatever is left over can be transferred to the new owner and they feel more comfortable that it's got the original box, etc. and still has some AppleCare left on it. If you do this, you will probably pay around $1,000 to $1,500 a year for you to always have the latest and greatest. You will typically have little or no problem offing the old machine to someone else.
Let's see after few years, who would still pay those amounts for an old iMac, whose ram and storage can't be reasonably replaced. Those old iMacs might end up more expensive than new ones. And this is Apple's idea; people would buy new ones instead of used ones. So I wouldn't rely on resale value any more.
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Last edited by toke lahti; Dec 4, 2012 at 09:18 PM.
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Old Dec 4, 2012, 09:15 PM   #607
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Originally Posted by Confuzzzed View Post
This is fair, yet it happens so rarely because power users upgrade so regularly. For non-power users, it's irrelevant because most wouldn't know what to do anyway and a large proportion welcome the drama as it allows them to buy new gear without buyers remorse...
You do understand the problem of your logics here?
When power users upgrade, where does their old computer go?
To the non-power users!
And what happens when their non-upgradeable hdd dies?
They get mad and don't buy used computers from power users anymore.
Suddenly, the problem does affect the power users...
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 02:15 AM   #608
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Originally Posted by toke lahti View Post
You do understand the problem of your logics here?
When power users upgrade, where does their old computer go?
To the non-power users!
How many people do you know who *buy* second hand computers? Because I know none. And besides, the VAST majority of HDDs will last more than 5 years...
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 03:43 AM   #609
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Originally Posted by Confuzzzed View Post
How many people do you know who *buy* second hand computers? Because I know none. And besides, the VAST majority of HDDs will last more than 5 years...
Quite a large number do that's why the is such a strong market for second hand Mac's.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 04:02 AM   #610
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Quite a large number do that's why the is such a strong market for second hand Mac's.
I appreciate that. I have sold one such machine (2007 Macbook Pro) myself via Amazon. But I suspect these buyers are buying these machines as an entry level into the Apple ecosystem, which these days is essentially the MacBook Air range that sport SSD so the HDD failures is not an issue...

Second hand iMac? Less likely. You can hardly send these through the post!!!
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 04:17 AM   #611
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Originally Posted by Confuzzzed View Post
I appreciate that. I have sold one such machine (2007 Macbook Pro) myself via Amazon. But I suspect these buyers are buying these machines as an entry level into the Apple ecosystem, which these days is essentially the MacBook Air range that sport SSD so the HDD failures is not an issue...

Second hand iMac? Less likely. You can hardly send these through the post!!!
Again there is a large market for second mac's to include desktop mac's particularly 27's. People use them as TV's as well as computers. You also have to remember most people care very little what Processor, RAM or HDD it has as long as it does their office work and then can run netflix on it.

For example I just sold my PM G5 Quad on Amazon for 500 euro.
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 05:27 AM   #612
toke lahti
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Originally Posted by Confuzzzed View Post
How many people do you know who *buy* second hand computers? Because I know none. And besides, the VAST majority of HDDs will last more than 5 years...
So where do these macs that power users "upgrade" go?
Vast majority doesn't cut.
Would you buy a computer that's storage has 40% chance of failure for the first year of ownership and you or computer shop nearby you can't replace it or replacing costs more than the hard disk itself?
Have you checked google's and other studies about hdd's failure rates with gigantic amount of samples?
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 11:08 AM   #613
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Originally Posted by brand View Post
Like when sitting right in front of it using it.
That would be one, yes. lol
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:18 PM   #614
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It cracks me up when people say their computer is "Gorgeous" ..lol

Would anyone here recommend the base 21" iMac to run AutoCAD?
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 12:40 PM   #615
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It cracks me up when people say their computer is "Gorgeous" ..lol
Computers, like cars, are tools. No one wants an ugly car. Why should they want an ugly computer?
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 06:20 PM   #616
toke lahti
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Hmmm, maybe ifixit could tell us precise location of ram slots relative to chassis, so those who want easy access can dremel a door for ram upgrade...
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Old Dec 5, 2012, 06:44 PM   #617
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It cracks me up when people say their computer is "Gorgeous" ..lol

Would anyone here recommend the base 21" iMac to run AutoCAD?
Ha ha!!! That's what I am gonna say when I get mine. Waiting for my 27 inch. Yes, I am a girl lol.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 05:23 AM   #618
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Originally Posted by apuliafico View Post
My brother is a genius and fixes these everyday this was done because they got complaints about dust after they take it apart between the screen and glass. Apple is just fixing issues before they happen to stop complaints and make it easier and faster to get your computer back when people bring them in. People just get apple care!!!!!
Apple is using the same methods to keep this skinny desktop together that they have "perfected" in their throw-away merchandise. A by-product MAY be reduced dust inside, but I doubt that had any reason behind it.

As to "just get AppleCare!!!" - Fine, if you're paying for it.

Apple is already under attack from at least 1 country for pushing AppleCare, when in fact they are responsible for FREE repairs for their products for more than their standard 12 months, under consumer laws. To push AppleCare is bad enough, to push it because a new line of computer has been manufactured in a way to make it incredibly hard to repair - that is just absurdly anti-consumer.

Frankly, I hate that idea that "Let the buyer beware" would become Apple's motto.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 06:06 AM   #619
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Originally Posted by toke lahti View Post
Suddenly Apple has became like HP, which get most of its profits by selling ink to printers.
First, HP is posting losses these days, not profits. Second, checking their net revenues, the Printing division which counts ink and hardware itself (consumer and corporate) is not their big money maker at all, that's just some forum-goer-lets-laugh-at-HP rumor :

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External...F8VHlwZT0z&t=1

Page 7 contains the gory details. Out of 29B$ of net revenue, the printing group, hardware and ink was responsible only for 6B$. Their biggest money makers are Personal Systems and Services. Page 9 breaks it down even more showing printing supplies (ink if you will) is only a 4B$ part of their revenue stream. If you want to discuss pure margins, page 11 shows that Software is their highest margin sector, with Services barely trailing printing.

HP's offering portfolio is much more balanced than Apple's in a way, they just aren't making money this year contrary to Apple that has been riding the wave of the iPhone (close to 50% of its revenues).

So let's stop spreading the "HP is an ink company" FUD please.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 07:06 AM   #620
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Originally Posted by Sue De Nimes View Post
Spot the Reg reader.



It's an appropriate term.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by apuliafico View Post
People just get apple care!!!!!
Great, so it becomes a three year then throw it away PC. It might be made out of highly recyclable materials but that's no use when the HDD fails after 38 months and you have to throw it away. Better to repair than replace.

If they'd used anything other than glue I wouldn't have a problem with it. If they're that confident in the non-serviceable product they'd include a three year hardware warranty as standard.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 05:38 PM   #621
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Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
Yes because we're always looking to upgrade our TV's with a new hard drive...oh...no...wait...more ram...no...hmm...

How the hell you managed to compare a TV's serviceability to a computer is beyond me.
You can upgrade the hard drive when you buy the computer. If you unexpectedly become a wedding photographer a year later, you just buy a damn external hard drive.

As with phones and tablets, computers are becoming more of a consumer electronic device, than a hobby device.

Which is great, because when was the last time your tv crashed, or you had to flash the firmware on your car because you bought new tires?
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 05:56 PM   #622
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You can upgrade the hard drive when you buy the computer. If you unexpectedly become a wedding photographer a year later, you just buy a damn external hard drive.

As with phones and tablets, computers are becoming more of a consumer electronic device, than a hobby device.

Which is great, because when was the last time your tv crashed, or you had to flash the firmware on your car because you bought new tires?
A better car analogy would be, would you buy a car without a hood? BTW, some people do modify their cars firmware.
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Old Dec 6, 2012, 06:09 PM   #623
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Originally Posted by apuliafico View Post
My brother is a genius and fixes these everyday this was done because they got complaints about dust after they take it apart between the screen and glass. Apple is just fixing issues before they happen to stop complaints and make it easier and faster to get your computer back when people bring them in. People just get apple care!!!!!
Only problem with this is Apple Genius' don't actually have any inside information as to why Apple does what they do. So your brother is guessing.
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 02:40 PM   #624
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Originally Posted by Confuzzzed View Post
This is wrong. There are. Education specials of yesteryear. Not yet for this iteration of iMac but pretty sure there was for the 2010 iMac for sure. Maybe even the 2011?

As you can see even here where the 2011 iMac with i3 shows up in the benchmarks

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1499395
Well yea, there were i3s in Macs 2-3 years ago, when the series was relatively new...and I guess educators get the "day-olds" so to speak. I meant there are currently no Macs available for purchase through a mainstream channel, as the OP implied
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Old Dec 7, 2012, 03:11 PM   #625
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Well yea, there were i3s in Macs 2-3 years ago, when the series was relatively new...and I guess educators get the "day-olds" so to speak. I meant there are currently no Macs available for purchase through a mainstream channel, as the OP implied
No. There was. Until 21st November 2012 you could buy an i3 iMac. Sorry. But it's true. Very niche. But it was available...
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