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Old Dec 8, 2012, 12:50 AM   #1
Sora
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Moderator consistency

Moderator consistency is severely lacking at macrumors.
I posted a response earlier today and this was the Moderator response I received:
Reason or rule: One-word, off-topic, or frivolous post and my post was removed.

The ironic part - the first response to the article.
"Whattt?" - verbatim (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1503872) Really? My post which stated "Oooo...I like this part." with a picture of Michael Jackson eating popcorn - hinting to the inevitable feud that can result from invalidated patent was "one-word, off topic, or frivolous post". Interesting.

Keep it classy MacRumors moderators. Keep it classy and consistent.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 01:28 AM   #2
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my posts always get edited/deleted. i figure it keeps the censors busy LOL.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 01:38 AM   #3
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Do you really think your post (and 'whattt' for that matter) contributed greatly to the discussion?
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 01:47 AM   #4
MacNut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlgolson View Post
Do you really think your post (and 'whattt' for that matter) contributed greatly to the discussion?
Posts 2 and 3 in that thread don't add anything either. adding 10, 13, 23. Ok I found at least 10 posts that don't follow the rules in that thread.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 03:31 AM   #5
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Report the post you see if you think it breaks one of the rules.

Just an FYI the post number 2 you mention above is now gone. I forget to press delete last night before I went out.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ELMNT925 View Post
my posts always get edited/deleted. i figure it keeps the censors busy LOL.
I can tell you from personal experience that we don't moderate members opinions, unless what was said breaks the rules.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 07:24 AM   #6
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We do strive for consistency but its possible in a long thread that we don't see each post that was similar and thus miss the violation. If its reported then that's another issue.

Sometimes mistakes happen, we're human and stuff happens.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 11:16 AM   #7
roadbloc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sora View Post
Moderator consistency is severely lacking at macrumors.
I posted a response earlier today and this was the Moderator response I received:
Reason or rule: One-word, off-topic, or frivolous post and my post was removed.

The ironic part - the first response to the article.
"Whattt?" - verbatim (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1503872) Really? My post which stated "Oooo...I like this part." with a picture of Michael Jackson eating popcorn - hinting to the inevitable feud that can result from invalidated patent was "one-word, off topic, or frivolous post". Interesting.

Keep it classy MacRumors moderators. Keep it classy and consistent.
I doubt the mods have something personal against you. Mistakes happen, even on a well moderated site like this. Use the report post button if you have concerns over someone else's post.
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Old Dec 8, 2012, 03:44 PM   #8
annk
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When we deal with a report, we do try to take the time to look at more of the thread than that one post. Context is important. We won't however necessarily have time to look far enough to see absolutely all posts, or even posts that are nearby. So if you have a post deleted and you see other posts with the same sort of problem in the thread, you can be sure we just didn't see them. Report them and we'll deal with them.

If you were to see all the reported posts that moderators did deal with, you would see moderation as consistent as the human condition allows.

Finally, remember you're responsible for your own posts. "Member X got away with it" isn't a defense, and a lack of action on our part doesn't mean we're singling you out - we just didn't see the other, similar posts.

Sometimes members will post things like "I don't want to be that member who reports other members", or "I don't want to bother the mods with a lot of reports". Nothing could be further from the truth. We are very grateful for reports. Mods enforce the rules the site owner has signed off on, but we also cooperate with members. The rules are there to make your experience of the site as pleasurable as possible, NOT to give us something to do!
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 11:29 AM   #9
Sora
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlgolson View Post
Do you really think your post (and 'whattt' for that matter) contributed greatly to the discussion?
I don't believe my post contributed "greatly" to the discussion. Never said that it was a poignant comment that I made, however, it was a opinion I expressed over a situation that could really disrupt the landscape of current patents. Perhaps, in retrospect I should have stated that vs. what I posted.

Interestingly enough, I went back to the thread where my post was deleted (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1503872), and this is the second post: "Now this is something Steve Jobs really wouldn't have allowed." While this post doesn't contribute to the thread discussion, it has 24 likes, and it adds humor to an otherwise bland thread - removing it in my opinion would be a tragedy, but if macrumors policy is to be followed then it must go the way of the waste basket. "Great" contribution is a area of grey, i'm sure at sometime a patent attorney has read through the thread and believes not one person has contributed "greatly" to the discussion. Perspective. Its a PITA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stridemat View Post
Report the post you see if you think it breaks one of the rules.

Just an FYI the post number 2 you mention above is now gone. I forget to press delete last night before I went out.

----------



I can tell you from personal experience that we don't moderate members opinions, unless what was said breaks the rules.
In the past I have reported posts, and I will continue to do so in the future. And I don't believe that mods try to moderate opinions.
Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maflynn View Post
We do strive for consistency but its possible in a long thread that we don't see each post that was similar and thus miss the violation. If its reported then that's another issue.

Sometimes mistakes happen, we're human and stuff happens.
I realize that things happen, I appreciate the candid response. I wonder if greater transparency in the process would make things appear more consistent or fair. My post wasn't on the first page, it was on the second, so one of two things occurred - either the mod read through all the posts from the beginning and felt that the all previous posts were not in violation of macrumors policies, or my post was reported and subsequently removed. I don't have the answer for a more thorough even distributed moderation, but discourse is often the soil of fruitful solutions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadbloc View Post
I doubt the mods have something personal against you. Mistakes happen, even on a well moderated site like this. Use the report post button if you have concerns over someone else's post.
Never said they did have anything personal against me. I actually find that their actions are inline with policy - my concern however is that their application could more consistent and thorough. For instance, removing a reported comment should trigger an immediate investigation of an entire thread - and all posts within that thread should be removed. That's just an example - but it would lead to more transparent and equitable moderation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by annk View Post
When we deal with a report, we do try to take the time to look at more of the thread than that one post. Context is important. We won't however necessarily have time to look far enough to see absolutely all posts, or even posts that are nearby. So if you have a post deleted and you see other posts with the same sort of problem in the thread, you can be sure we just didn't see them. Report them and we'll deal with them.

If you were to see all the reported posts that moderators did deal with, you would see moderation as consistent as the human condition allows.

Finally, remember you're responsible for your own posts. "Member X got away with it" isn't a defense, and a lack of action on our part doesn't mean we're singling you out - we just didn't see the other, similar posts.

Sometimes members will post things like "I don't want to be that member who reports other members", or "I don't want to bother the mods with a lot of reports". Nothing could be further from the truth. We are very grateful for reports. Mods enforce the rules the site owner has signed off on, but we also cooperate with members. The rules are there to make your experience of the site as pleasurable as possible, NOT to give us something to do!
Thank you for your insight. So there is no confusion, and for clarification purposes, I accept my posts, and I acknowledge responsibility for them. The purpose of my original post was not to say "hey - look at what member x got away with", rather, it's to provide evidence to support my personal opinion of moderation consistency.
When I was a medical student, my attending told me, whenever you see a problem, never report the problem without also recommending a solution. While I have not sat and thought about this at length I do believe that discourse and transparency may be helpful in this domain. I understand that moderators do their best, and I actually do appreciate their strong work ethic, however at the same time, there has to be a better way to moderate posts and applying policy in an equitable yet efficient manner. If my post was flagged in a thread, the whole thread should be scrubbed for posts that violate policy preferably by the same mod who responded to the initial flagged post - for homogenous policy application. Or if a post is flagged, maybe 2 or 3 mods are needed to vote before the post is removed - ensuring concordance/agreement between different mods (inter-rater reliability).

I hope that everyone understands that while I can accept that my post did not "greatly" enhance thread discussion - 99% of posts don't "greatly" enhance discussion. They are mostly expression of opinions mixed with whit and humor, and the odd sprinkle of facts and figures.

Thank you all for your contribution to this discussion.
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Last edited by Sora; Dec 9, 2012 at 11:45 AM. Reason: added response citation
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Old Dec 9, 2012, 12:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sora View Post
If my post was flagged in a thread, the whole thread should be scrubbed for posts that violate policy preferably by the same mod who responded to the initial flagged post - for homogenous policy application. Or if a post is flagged, maybe 2 or 3 mods are needed to vote before the post is removed - ensuring concordance/agreement between different mods (inter-rater reliability).
Most violations are very clear and take little to no discussion. When discussion is required, mods are always communicating to make sure the rules are applied fairly so a formal vote is not needed. Voting would add more overhead and make it longer for us to address issues.

As for reading the whole thread, that's just not always possible. We have thousands of active threads, many with hundreds of posts. We are just volunteers and don't have an unlimited amount of time. I'd rather spend time dealing with the posts that were reported than spend time scanning threads for potential problems (that's not to say I don't deal with non-reported issues if I happen to come across them). If insults or similar are reported we usually check the surrounding posts to make sure there is not a argument happening with multiple insults. But for something simple like frivolous posts, I just deal with the post reported.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 07:34 PM   #11
Peace
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This is my last post on macrumors.


Your moderation needs a serious overhaul .
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 08:17 AM   #12
thewitt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace View Post
This is my last post on macrumors.


Your moderation needs a serious overhaul .
I'll take that bet...
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 08:23 AM   #13
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Completely agree.

I was put on a 2 day ban along with an OP on a non ios thread.

All the pro apple, paying members werent touched and wrote far worse posts.

Some moderators are great... Some are biased and not impartial... Others can be lacking in actual moderation

I frequent other forums as well now. Worse forums but better moderation
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Old Dec 15, 2012, 08:37 AM   #14
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I'm going to close this now, and remind you all of the section of the Moderation FAQ called "What if I disagree with moderation of my posts?".

If you want to bring up general moderation issues, it's fine to do so here. If you want to discuss specific moderation, follow the steps in the linked-to section. We are happy to discuss and explain all instances of specific moderation with the members involved, as long as the members use the system that's set up.
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