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Old Dec 11, 2012, 04:10 PM   #26
Karmakamilleon
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dont pirate adobe people...

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Originally Posted by koban4max View Post
that's why you pirate it.
lol NO. Pirating from Adobe is the worst thing you can do. Don't do it. They really work hard to crack people down.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 05:21 PM   #27
John.B
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In fact, they were spamming my inbox stating that Creative Cloud members would get the added benefit of faster updates.
Really? They've been spamming my inbox stating that the upgrade pricing to CS6 from CS3 or CS6 ends on December 31st.

Then this.

I like Lightroom, and I'm stuck with Photoshop, but I doubt I'll ever buy any of their other products after this.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 06:44 PM   #28
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But do they owe you something more than you purchased? You purchased the software in a box as it was when you decided to buy it. If they come out with something new you are owed unless they call it CS7? If these updates were the same but called "CS7" and still not given to owners of CS6 you would be okay with it?
You want to point me to any other mainstream software vendor on earth that sells you version 13.0 of something and then withholds version 13.x unless you pay more?

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Originally Posted by ksgant View Post
Indeed, they said it many many times. In fact, they were spamming my inbox stating that Creative Cloud members would get the added benefit of faster updates.
There's a huge difference between faster updates, and deliberately withholding .x update releases from box product customers, which they are clearly doing.

Anyway, this is not just about providing updates. It's about forcing people who have used a product for a decade onto an entirely new payment system with no real alternative if they want to receive updates that used to be version.x releases. Yet again the idiots on this site line up behind a major corporation, cheering and applauding while they turn the profit screw against the interests of their customers.

Last edited by Snowshiro; Dec 16, 2012 at 10:04 AM.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 07:25 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by newagemac View Post
Adobe clearly stated that one of the best benefits of a Creative Cloud subscription would be much faster updates. Instead of waiting 2 years for the next Creative Suite, they specifically stated that Creative Cloud members would get updates every few months.

I guess a lot of people didn't take this seriously and purchased a Suite anyway. Enjoying my Creative Cloud subscription though!
Yeah this is pretty amazing. I caught the sale @ $29.99/mo in November and am amazed at what a good value it is.
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 09:24 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Mac21ND View Post
I'm curious as to what options are available outside of InDesign and Quark? (Honestly, not being snarky). Not real thrilled with Stone Studio's products either.
I don't currently know of any (admittedly, I've not looked), but that's not to say there won't be viable alternatives in the future. I like InDesign (always have), but I have chosen not to pay over A$1400 to upgrade a suite of products for a handful of useful features, and I will never pay over A$60 per month to rent my software like Adobe wants us to. For now, CS4 still meets my needs, but in the future I may be willing to look elsewhere.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 12:50 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Karmakamilleon View Post
lol NO. Pirating from Adobe is the worst thing you can do. Don't do it. They really work hard to crack people down.
they don't crack anyone down... if you do it right to install it.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 08:23 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Snowshiro View Post
You want to point me to any other mainstream software vendor on earth that sells you version 13.0 of something and then withholds version 13.x unless you pay more?
Are these update even available to owners of CS6 at a cost?

I did not say Adobe shouldn't offer the updates for free to CS6 owners. You said these updates should be part of CS7 which would be "14.0" not "13.x" in your example.

They do not owe you something more than you purchased unless the 13.x updates fixes an issue with the 13.0 that was purchased. If 13.x is just a new feature that was not promised when 13.0 was purchased then it is not owed. However, it is a good practice to offer those kind of updates to costumers who have paid a lot of money.

You do have a great point. They obviously wanted to move to the subscription based model but did not want to commit at the time, so CS6 was available both as a suite to own or a service to rent.

As others have mentioned: They did warn you about the benefits to the creative cloud. I guess they should have made it more clear that the ownership of CS6 would not have similar benefits. Adobe should have been more bold and just not sold CS6 suites to avoid making their customers (who have put down a lot of money) feel ripped off. My point is: you may feel ripped off, but you were not actually ripped off.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 11:00 AM   #33
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face it... adobe's a monopoly. don't care what anyone says, i resent having anything in my life tied to the freaking internet. i want autonomy!
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 11:15 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by John.B View Post
Seems like they are hell bent on making the product ownership route a ghetto and forcing people into their subscription plan, doesn't it?
Yeah, I bet they are. That's $600/year which you have to keep paying. They couldn't get people to spend $3K every five years just releasing major upgrades to the owned version, so they've come up with this. Greedy ********. They're just going to anger their installed base of users. Remember Quark? They were the undisputed leader in page layout software with a gigantic user base — they got lazy and didn't bother innovating and InDesign ultimately ate their lunch. Same could happen with Adobe if they keep gouging and screwing over their users.

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Old Dec 12, 2012, 12:00 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by curmudgeon32 View Post
Yeah, I bet they are. That's $600/year which you have to keep paying. They couldn't get people to spend $3K every five years just releasing major upgrades to the owned version, so they've come up with this. Greedy ********. They're just going to anger their installed base of users. Remember Quark? They were the undisputed leader in page layout software with a gigantic user base they got lazy and didn't bother innovating and InDesign ultimately ate their lunch. Same could happen with Adobe if they keep gouging and screwing over their users.
Personally I really like the Creative Cloud system. You end up paying roughly the same as if you spend the 3k every 5 years, but with more services and always the newest version of software.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 12:28 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Snowshiro View Post
There's a huge difference between faster updates, and deliberately withholding .x update releases from box product customers, which they are clearly doing.
Box product customers will get these features in the next release of the box product, whether that be CS6.5 or CS7.

This isn't removing anything CS purchasers had before. Adobe hasn't been updating new features for previous versions of CS (save for previews of some things that come out of Labs). Creative Cloud lets you get these features when they're done, as opposed to waiting for the next box release.

Bug fixes and compatibility features (like Retina support) are still delivered to people with CS6 who bought the box.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 02:27 PM   #37
DanielSw
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Originally Posted by curmudgeon32 View Post
Yeah, I bet they are. That's $600/year which you have to keep paying. They couldn't get people to spend $3K every five years just releasing major upgrades to the owned version, so they've come up with this. Greedy ********. They're just going to anger their installed base of users. Remember Quark? They were the undisputed leader in page layout software with a gigantic user base they got lazy and didn't bother innovating and InDesign ultimately ate their lunch. Same could happen with Adobe if they keep gouging and screwing over their users.
You're totally wrong. Creative Cloud is a far better system, and we love it. For $600/yr we have access to the complete stable of Adobe apps, as well as 20GB of online storage and up to 5 website hostings. Updates have been frequent, and I personally love Muse which is already in v3. There'll always be fossils like you (why call yourself curmudgeon if you're not one?) who complain about everything under the sun, but who cares?

We've been happy Adobe customers for two and a half decades, and we're very gratified about recent Adobe developments.

I also wouldn't be surprised to learn at some point that this Creative Cloud system will prove to be much better proof against piracy.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 03:19 PM   #38
John.B
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You're totally wrong. Creative Cloud is a far better system, and we love it. For $600/yr we have access to the complete stable of Adobe apps, as well as 20GB of online storage and up to 5 website hostings. Updates have been frequent, and I personally love Muse which is already in v3. There'll always be fossils like you (why call yourself curmudgeon if you're not one?) who complain about everything under the sun, but who cares?

We've been happy Adobe customers for two and a half decades, and we're very gratified about recent Adobe developments.

I also wouldn't be surprised to learn at some point that this Creative Cloud system will prove to be much better proof against piracy.
Wow, you just regurgitated the whole Adobe press release in one post?

You ever consider a PR career?
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 03:30 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Snowshiro View Post
You want to point me to any other mainstream software vendor on earth that sells you version 13.0 of something and then withholds version 13.x unless you pay more?
Doesn't Apple do this with their OS....?
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 08:00 PM   #40
curmudgeon32
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Originally Posted by DanielSw View Post
You're totally wrong. Creative Cloud is a far better system, and we love it. For $600/yr we have access to the complete stable of Adobe apps, as well as 20GB of online storage and up to 5 website hostings. Updates have been frequent, and I personally love Muse which is already in v3.
And what about a designer who just uses a couple of the apps and doesn't want to rent every single CS app under the sun? Also, 20GB? Wow, really impressive! If this was the year 2005.

If Creative Cloud was broken down in a modular fashion into individual apps or smaller packages, I could see it maybe making sense, but as it is, it smacks of movie theater popcorn pricing — far more than you need, costing more than you want to spend.

Quote:
There'll always be fossils like you who complain about everything under the sun, but who cares?
Last I checked, traditional point release software that you purchase and own is alive and well. Just because you're happy with renting forever and it works for you, doesn't mean it works for everyone else, chump.

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Old Dec 13, 2012, 07:08 AM   #41
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The rental model is a direct result of Adobe being a publicly listed company and needing to come up with some way of showing growth to shareholders.

Dollars to donuts the subscription price will get a hike every year, which will improve projected revenue and provide said growth without Adobe needing to do anything crazy, like innovating for example.
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Old Dec 14, 2012, 11:05 AM   #42
Kid Red
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Originally Posted by multipasser View Post
They should have fired the guy that 'reinvented' the croptool!
This was 4 steps backwards! It annoys me still every day. I want to start drawing the cropbox outside my image!

Why change a tool that has been the same for 20 years?
I cannot agree with this point any more! I don't always begin the selection shape inside the live area, but I will extend outside and then drag the selection to crop. I can't now because the shape will have the flat edge of the live area cropping my selection. So if I want to make a large oval section to get a nice curve to move around to a particular area to cut away pixels, it's nearly impossible to do on a small dimension.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 10:00 AM   #43
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Doesn't Apple do this with their OS....?
Apple's numbering system is unlike any other. It doesn't really apply in the same way.

You can't really compare going from OS X 10.1 to OS X 10.2, or OS X 10.7 to 10.8. They're entirely different to Photoshop 10.0 vs 10.1. When you release a .x update as a retail release with it's own name (e.g. Leopard, Snow Leopard, Lion etc.) that's a product release akin to CS4, CS5, CS6 etc.

Last edited by Snowshiro; Dec 17, 2012 at 12:40 AM.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 12:58 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Snowshiro View Post
I think this is kinda a d1ck move by Adobe. I don't really recall them making clear to customers who paid thousands of dollars for their CS6 apps, "Oh by the way, from now on, all the good updates are going to be for Creative Cloud customers only. But thanks for your cash. Suckers."
No, seriously. I actually pay $1000 for a piece of software and I get treated like a second-class citizen.

And you really can't defend the Creative Cloud subscription model, because frankly, it's worse for consumers. Rather than owning a license to software that is good forever, you now only own it as long as you keep making payments.
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Originally Posted by Gomff View Post
The rental model is a direct result of Adobe being a publicly listed company and needing to come up with some way of showing growth to shareholders.

Dollars to donuts the subscription price will get a hike every year, which will improve projected revenue and provide said growth without Adobe needing to do anything crazy, like innovating for example.
Oh god. You're right. I didn't even think about how this decentivizes innovation.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 01:19 PM   #45
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Doesn't Apple do this with their OS....?
Like guy above said, it's not quite the same. Going from 10.7 to 10.8 on OSX is more similar to going from 12.0 to 13.0 in Photoshop than it is 13.0 to 13.1 Think of it like this. 10.8 is the 8th revision of the core features that make up OSX, whereas 13.0 is the 13th revision of Photoshop.
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Old Dec 16, 2012, 01:29 PM   #46
John.B
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Doesn't Apple do this with their OS....?
Complete BS. Lion doesn't stop working if you don't buy Mountain Lion. But the Photoshop subscription will when you stop making monthly payments.
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Last edited by John.B; Dec 16, 2012 at 01:39 PM.
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Old Dec 17, 2012, 12:42 AM   #47
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What troubles me most, is that you can bet that most software vendors probably want to go this way. Although I don't like it much, this software "rental" system is just about manageable for one product. But if everyone starts doing it, the monthly cost just to use your regular apps will put them out of reach of smalltime independent professionals.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 12:38 PM   #48
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I was thinking... why not a tiered approach?
Seems that there could be more than one-size-fits-all subscription. e.g CS+LR , or CS+LR+Muse+DW , or perhaps pick any 2 , or pick any 4, in addition to the full set.

btw, you'd think that in this time of social-based marketing, that Adobe would really benefit from blogs like this where they are getting a ton of customer input for FREE. Maybe MacRumors can offer a subscription to Adobe sales & marketing for this consumer research. a single consumer research survey and analysis can cost a company hundreds of thousands of dollars. And its a one-time thing. so why not charge Adobe $5000/mo - special introductory rate for the first 12months if they enroll for one year.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 12:50 PM   #49
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When I tried Adobe Chat to fix the "licensing" error msg. that I've been getting since updating Mac OS, I got xfered to 3 different agents. sometimes the wait for xfer was so long that I assumed I had been dropped. The 3rd Chat agent, actually sent this
Quote:
"Thank you for contacting Adobe. We are available 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. Goodbye!"
So after 1hr+ on Chat, following instructions and downloads that didn't work, I called Adobe "Support" - which is apparently the new name of their Sales dept. To his credit, the phone agent did inform me (unlike the Chat agents) that my version of Acrobat was too old. I could upgrade to ver.11 for $200, or after Jan.1 I would need to pay full price , $400. OR, I could consider just $29.99/mo for Creative Cloud. This did get me thinking of subscribing... but its hard to find anyone who thinks Cloud is a good deal for photographers who don't use all the other tools .
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Old Dec 30, 2012, 04:03 PM   #50
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I was thinking... why not a tiered approach?
Seems that there could be more than one-size-fits-all subscription. e.g CS+LR , or CS+LR+Muse+DW , or perhaps pick any 2 , or pick any 4, in addition to the full set.

btw, you'd think that in this time of social-based marketing, that Adobe would really benefit from blogs like this where they are getting a ton of customer input for FREE. Maybe MacRumors can offer a subscription to Adobe sales & marketing for this consumer research. a single consumer research survey and analysis can cost a company hundreds of thousands of dollars. And its a one-time thing. so why not charge Adobe $5000/mo - special introductory rate for the first 12months if they enroll for one year.
If you only want one app, you can generally subscribe to any of the majors for $19.99 a month. Once you get past two, however, it's not worth the ala carte method.
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