The 2012-2013 Football Thread

[pachyderm]

and before we single out any set of fans let us point out that there is good and bad in everyone, thank you messrs. mccartney & wonder, and that the root of the problem lay in one or two people feeding off of a "mob rules' mentality...

[olup]

Originally Posted by twietee

Guardiola in London? I can imagine that.

In other news, today was (in my neighborhood) the referee Manfred Amerell found dead. Kind of mysterious circumstances and likely the second (!) ref dieing this year by suicide. The first one was Rafati. More food for shenanigans.

Rafati is very much alive, although he tried to commit suicide, Amarell apparently died from a heart attack.

[Lord Blackadder]

Originally Posted by Confuzzzed

I have to say, although a taboo subject for many Liverpool fans, I sort of agree with you. For every great British winger (Giggs, Barnes, Waddle, Bale) there's 5 mediocre ones who were once considered world beaters (SWP, Downing, Lennon, Lee Sharpe, Walcott...)

The only reason I hessitate to say completely agree with you is one of perception. Selling one of the countries brighter prospects, even if it's for £15-17m, the club may slip into 'selling club' category which attracts frequent raids from more affluent competitors. Which can be disruptive (cf. Arsenal).

I agree it can send a bad message. But if the players coming in do their jobs well, fans will forget about who is sold. If, on the other hand, the newcomers turn out to be duds, fans won't forget about it. It all comes down to whether we buy players who go on to actually improve the squad. If we pick up another Alberto Aquilani or Stewart Downing or Charlie Adam, people will remember that we gave away Sterling to do it.

Originally Posted by Happybunny

While I completely agree about the fines, handed out by UEFA are a joke.There can be no place for any type of discrimination in football.

But this case is just as bad IMO.
The case of Anders Frisk was mentioned, here in the Netherlands in the wake of the Lines man's death. He was hounded out of the sport and his family was threaten, by Chelsea fans.

Originally Posted by pachyderm

and before we single out any set of fans let us point out that there is good and bad in everyone, thank you messrs. mccartney & wonder, and that the root of the problem lay in one or two people feeding off of a "mob rules' mentality...

Most fans are decent people. There are, unfortunately, a minority of 'fans' who are simply criminals. Lets not beat around the bush. And those criminals need to be singled out and kept out of the sport to full extent possible by rules and the law.

It's also our duty as fans of the decent sort to make it clear to these violent/bigoted 'fans' that we are not behind that kind of behavior.

Unfortunately, I am not seeing enough effort from FIFA and UEFA and without their effective intervention the problems will continue. They are very concerned about making money for themselves and their corporate partners. They are less concerned about dealing with social issues that surround the game. They are almost totally reactive rather than proactive, and even when they react they don't do enough.

[Fizzoid]

Originally Posted by Lord Blackadder

I agree it can send a bad message. But if the players coming in do their jobs well, fans will forget about who is sold. If, on the other hand, the newcomers turn out to be duds, fans won't forget about it. It all comes down to whether we buy players who go on to actually improve the squad. If we pick up another Alberto Aquilani or Stewart Downing or Charlie Adam, people will remember that we gave away Sterling to do it.

The problem there is that if he sells Sterling, is he going to be relying on Downing?

Oh, and you forgot Andy Carroll

[Happybunny]

Originally Posted by Lord Blackadder

I agree it can send a bad message. But if the players coming in do their jobs well, fans will forget about who is sold. If, on the other hand, the newcomers turn out to be duds, fans won't forget about it. It all comes down to whether we buy players who go on to actually improve the squad. If we pick up another Alberto Aquilani or Stewart Downing or Charlie Adam, people will remember that we gave away Sterling to do it.





Most fans are decent people. There are, unfortunately, a minority of 'fans' who are simply criminals. Lets not beat around the bush. And those criminals need to be singled out and kept out of the sport to full extent possible by rules and the law.

It's also our duty as fans of the decent sort to make it clear to these violent/bigoted 'fans' that we are not behind that kind of behavior.

Unfortunately, I am not seeing enough effort from FIFA and UEFA and without their effective intervention the problems will continue. They are very concerned about making money for themselves and their corporate partners. They are less concerned about dealing with social issues that surround the game. They are almost totally reactive rather than proactive, and even when they react they don't do enough.

You are completely correct, I have heard that when this problem is discussed at UEFA it quickly goes down national lines.
The members from the old communist east stick together, and the southern nations also form a block.
This problem can only be solved if we tackle it together, and not start every discussion well 'we cannot single out one set of fans.'This has the same ring to it as my boys wouldn't do that, that fault in football lays with everybody else.
The throwing of bananas and monkey chants must bet stamped out just as much as intimidation of officials.

I hope that some time in the near future people who really love football take the lead on this, yes it will mean that some people/fans/players will get stamped on. But if it is done across the board to everybody by the same rules then we can beat this, if not we are lost.

The UK was for years the beacon to rest of Europe of how to get rid of racism in football. But as we have seen from resent events this is slipping.
One member of the KNVB said on TV, he heard a member of the English delegation once say to another member (Poland) you cannot critique us were the best, then of course a month later Chelsea plays QPR.

It is this attitude which is our collective undoing, we are only as strong as our weakest link. Thinking that you are perfect is the first step in complacency.

We can only win against the thugs if we are prepared to weed them out of our own clubs and supports groups, and not all ways look to everybody else.

Originally Posted by Fizzoid

The problem there is that if he sells Sterling, is he going to be relying on Downing?

Oh, and you forgot Andy Carroll

First off I think that Liverpool would love to forget Andy Carroll.

[Lord Blackadder]

Originally Posted by Fizzoid

The problem there is that if he sells Sterling, is he going to be relying on Downing?

Oh, and you forgot Andy Carroll

Originally Posted by Happybunny

First off I think that Liverpool would love to forget Andy Carroll.

Andy Who?

I don't know what is in Rogers' mind. Perhaps he has a more experienced 1:1 replacement for Sterling lined up, though that would seem to be unnecessary. Of course, talk of selling Sterling is mere speculation, and I'd rather see Downing go than Sterling. I think there are plenty of clubs out there who would be willing to buy Downing, and Liverpool need to accept that they are going to take a big loss on him when he is sold.

If Rogers buys a player or two in January, at least one must be a striker. We don't need another midfielder.

Originally Posted by Happybunny

You are completely correct, I have heard that when this problem is discussed at UEFA it quickly goes down national lines.
The members from the old communist east stick together, and the southern nations also form a block.
This problem can only be solved if we tackle it together, and not start every discussion well 'we cannot single out one set of fans.'This has the same ring to it as my boys wouldn't do that, that fault in football lays with everybody else.
The throwing of bananas and monkey chants must bet stamped out just as much as intimidation of officials.

You bring up a good point about the role of nationalism in this situation. Serbia is a good example. They are almost totally uncooperative and bring a victim mentality to the table. It's not only that they are unwilling to tackle their racism problem, it's also that they are unwilling to listen to anyone telling them what to do, period.

Until member states and their FAs take the problem seriously, the issue won't be dealt with even if (and it's a big "if") FIFA gets their act together.

[Confuzzzed]

On today's performance Sterling is worth 10 bob. Only Downing, Agger and to maybe Henderson did themselves justice today

[Jaffa Cake]

Meanwhile, here in the East Riding, the police insisted that our match against Huddersfield today kicked off at 12.30 in order to avoid the streets of Hull running knee deep in the blood of innocents. As it turned out, the only violence witnessed was a post-match spat between two players which saw our manager's son given a red card.

The two antagonists were called Bruce and Lee, so it's little surprise there was fighting.

[Confuzzzed]

Originally Posted by Jaffa Cake

The two antagonists were called Bruce and Lee, so it's little surprise there was fighting.

Nice work. Good win for you guys today. But Sheffield Wednesday's win to break a run of 7 defeats in a row must have been very special for owls fans. Excellent wins for Boro, Bolton and Millwall too in that division

[Confuzzzed]

That is some mental action by Fellaini today. It was against Stoke tho, so some respect taking on a team of Robbie Savages but even so...wonder if he'll get a Barton

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Confuzzzed

Nice work. Good win for you guys today. But Sheffield Wednesday's win to break a run of 7 defeats in a row must have been very special for owls fans. Excellent wins for Boro, Bolton and Millwall too in that division

I can name three:
Fizzoid, pachyderm, and Davy Jones...

[Happybunny]

Well Chelsea lost again to what looked like lesser opposition.

[Lord Blackadder]

Alex Bruce has his father's nose, poor guy.

Originally Posted by Confuzzzed

On today's performance Sterling is worth 10 bob. Only Downing, Agger and to maybe Henderson did themselves justice today

We're rebuilding. <repeats endlessly to self>

Originally Posted by Happybunny

Well Chelsea lost again to what looked like lesser opposition.

Maybe, but I think many Brazilian clubs are often underrated by fans/pundits in Europe. They have a lot of talent, and on these one-ff games they have more than enough skill to beat any opponent.

[Happybunny]

Friday

Twente 3 vs Heracles Almelo 2

Twente went top after this win.

But this weekend threw up two big surprises.

Saturday

NEC 1 vs PSV 1

It was a very close match.

Sunday

Willem II 2 vs Ajax 4

Ajax move up the table to third

PEC Zwolle 1 vs AZ 2

PEC failed to beat AZ and slip even deeper in the table.

There was no stopping the tide of red cards Four this weekend, two in one match.



So PSV are still leaders by Goal difference.

[daneoni]

Originally Posted by Lord Blackadder

Maybe, but I think many Brazilian clubs are often underrated by fans/pundits in Europe. They have a lot of talent, and on these one-ff games they have more than enough skill to beat any opponent.

That may be true but the game was dull and Corinthians were there for the taking. Chelsea were just abysmal. I guess they were expecting to just cruise to the trophy like it was some kind of birth right or something.

[2020mike]

Originally Posted by Confuzzzed

That is some mental action by Fellaini today. It was against Stoke tho, so some respect taking on a team of Robbie Savages but even so...wonder if he'll get a Barton

Bad decision on Fellaini, I'm guessing he'll get at least 4+ games for it. I wonder if Barkley will be used during his suspension.

[Jaffa Cake]

Originally Posted by Confuzzzed

That is some mental action by Fellaini today. It was against Stoke tho, so some respect taking on a team of Robbie Savages but even so...wonder if he'll get a Barton

I remember Michael Turner getting thoroughly clobbered in the face by Fellaini's elbows a number of times in quick succession, during our spell in the Premier League. He's got plenty of previous.

Obviously Michael Turner is ace, so this makes Fellaini the worst kind of cad and bounder.

[Confuzzzed]

Originally Posted by Jaffa Cake

Obviously Michael Turner is ace

Aye. We were in for him some times ago under Rafa, but were sadly outbid by Sunderland (how the mighty have fallen!!). How is getting on over there? Last I looked he wasn't getting a game or has he been injured?

[Jaffa Cake]

Originally Posted by Confuzzzed

How is getting on over there? Last I looked he wasn't getting a game or has he been injured?

He hasn't been getting a game for Sunderland lately, but that's because they flogged him to Norwich in the summer. He'd had problems in the north-east following an injury lay off, he did his knee in if I remember rightly.

Unfortunately, Turner was a victim of the financial mismanagement that went on here and was one of the panic sales. We got less than we should have done – at one point there was (perhaps exaggerated) talk of a £12m offer being tabled but we ended up with less than £3m for him when all was said and done.

It was a shame, after a shaky start he was a very good player for us – he was our player of the year for both our Premier League promotion season and the following campaign in the top flight, and was an ever present for the latter. In one of those twists of fate that football always seems to throw up, his Sunderland debut was against us. He scored, naturally.

[Cox Orange]

Anybody heard, that Schalke's Coach got fired? I often don't understand these decisions, when coaches have lead many good games and then if they start to have sort of a row of bad ones, the clubs seem to think the coach is the most untalented person in the world, forgetting the past.
OK, one can argument, that maybe the other teams have changed and the coach didn't adapt to the then new situation and therefore he is no good anymore, but I still have to scratch my head in Schalke's case. I mean during CL?

[Happybunny]

With a week to go before the winter stop,not much news.
Except Dick Advocaat is in trouble with the KNVB over remarks that he made via the TV about the referee in the Ajax vs PSV match.
It wasn't a really harsh remark, but given the new line about respect for officials following the linesman's death, it would look bad if the KNVB let it slide.
It could be an extended break away from football if the decision goes against him.

[takao]

Originally Posted by Cox Orange

Anybody heard, that Schalke's Coach got fired? I often don't understand these decisions, when coaches have lead many good games and then if they start to have sort of a row of bad ones, the clubs seem to think the coach is the most untalented person in the world, forgetting the past.
OK, one can argument, that maybe the other teams have changed and the coach didn't adapt to the then new situation and therefore he is no good anymore, but I still have to scratch my head in Schalke's case. I mean during CL?

obviously 40 not-so-successful days can be enough to undo winning the CL group and the best season start since _decades_ ... idiot move by Schalke leadership

honestly ... since Heynckes was fired a mere week after the CL victory because of the "not good enough" place in the league with Real Madrid i can't be surprised anymore ...

[Jaffa Cake]

It's been confirmed that Marouane Fellaini's got himself a three match ban, I suspect for nutting Ryan Shawcross on Saturday and not for elbowing Michael Turner back in 2009.

[twietee]

Just read that Schalke chairman Tönnies fires more coaches than Abramovich per year.

[Happybunny]

Originally Posted by twietee

Just read that Schalke chairman Tönnies fires more coaches than Abramovich per year.

Now that I do find hard to believe.

Do they have a swing door by Schale 04?