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Old Dec 18, 2012, 07:53 AM   #1
needfx
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bets on new TB displays

Well, given my last post regarding two TB displays on an iMac 2012,

I started wondering when rumors are going to start surfacing on TB display updates.

As it seems, they are bound to be updated soon, hopefully, but what would this update include/exclude?

Design wise, I bet they will be following the iMac thin border design, with less tapering of course.

Connection wise, I presume FW might be omitted.

Any other guesstimations?
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 01:59 PM   #2
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No one knows, but...

I would like:

- USB 3
- More thunderbolt ports
- Jackstick to connect to amp (one less cable for the MacBook)
- Less glare surface similar to iMac
- Thinner design, but only if it does not mean compromise on image quality
- Most importantly.. MagSafe 2, so you won't need an adapter for newer MacBooks

Unlikely, but would be very nice and useful:

- Built in GPU. There is a big and silent fan blower in there already, and it would be nice if the MacBook Air should not struggle to handle the big resolution and external connection. Some help for that in terms of hardware would be nice. I do not think that the Macbook Air is fully capable of running the TBD, not even the newest one. I have tried, and the fans run like mad with flash/silverlight content. Sad thing that iPads can run this stuff quiet while the old pc architecture can't.

I just returned two TBD as they had backlight bleeding, grey band of gradient at the bottom and one of them a yellow tint. Would rather have bought one now as the prices might go up and I think the design looks more pro compared to the round new iMac.

Last edited by joachimnb; Dec 18, 2012 at 04:42 PM.
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 02:48 PM   #3
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Old Dec 18, 2012, 05:54 PM   #4
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My predictions:

-Thinner
-Reduced glare
-USB3
-MagSafe 2
-Released simultaneously with new Mac Pro in Q1/Q2 2013
-Apple discontinues LED cinema display

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Old Dec 18, 2012, 09:19 PM   #5
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I agree with that Apple will likely discontinue ACD. Their push is to newer machines that drop FW and have thunderbolt. The writing is on the wall.

Our ATDs arrive tomorrow via a brown truck. The wife has no idea. She will definitely like an ATD over her 25" HDMI HP monitor.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 07:52 AM   #6
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I also had the same feeling that the older imac design looked "more pro" but I think this sentiment will dissolve over time.

built-in gpu will be awesome, but most probably will sky rocket cost. imo, it will need upgraded circuitry to host the extra silicon, and a few questions rise on that matter :

1. will daisy-chaining of 2 TBD work
2. will they need driver updates?
3. what kind of gpus would apple be looking at?
4. what happens with hardware selection/allocation?, and will the monitor relieve workload from the computers gpu (eg rendering stuff)?

even though a gpu on the TBD sounds great, and a positive step forward towards computing over TB, I can't really see it as a possibility coming in so soon. I can see quite a few technical problems rising from such a move, but that's just me, with my narrow peripheral vision when it comes to what it can be...

simultaneous launch of macpro & tb displays would be more than just awesome. it would also relieve many people currently in a conundrum of investing in a non-upgradeable imac (apart from ram) with an extra monitor or two.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 08:03 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by needfx View Post
I also had the same feeling that the older imac design looked "more pro" but I think this sentiment will dissolve over time.

built-in gpu will be awesome, but most probably will sky rocket cost. imo, it will need upgraded circuitry to host the extra silicon, and a few questions rise on that matter :

1. will daisy-chaining of 2 TBD work
2. will they need driver updates?
3. what kind of gpus would apple be looking at?
4. what happens with hardware selection/allocation?, and will the monitor relieve workload from the computers gpu (eg rendering stuff)?

even though a gpu on the TBD sounds great, and a positive step forward towards computing over TB, I can't really see it as a possibility coming in so soon. I can see quite a few technical problems rising from such a move, but that's just me, with my narrow peripheral vision when it comes to what it can be...

simultaneous launch of macpro & tb displays would be more than just awesome. it would also relieve many people currently in a conundrum of investing in a non-upgradeable imac (apart from ram) with an extra monitor or two.
GPU in TBD is technically no problem, BUT, why would apple do that? That would completely change mac mini positioning..
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 09:56 AM   #8
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GPU in TBD is technically no problem, BUT, why would apple do that? That would completely change mac mini positioning..
I am trying to understand your point. where would the mac mini be in the array of products should the TBD have a gpu on?

I already mentioned my peripheral vision impairment
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 10:06 AM   #9
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I am trying to understand your point. where would the mac mini be in the array of products should the TBD have a gpu on?

I already mentioned my peripheral vision impairment
mac mini + GPU TBD - killing imac sales, got it?
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 10:10 AM   #10
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I agree with that Apple will likely discontinue ACD. Their push is to newer machines that drop FW and have thunderbolt. The writing is on the wall.

Our ATDs arrive tomorrow via a brown truck. The wife has no idea. She will definitely like an ATD over her 25" HDMI HP monitor.
FW is certainly halfway out the door

ATDs in your case = 2 or more?
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 10:23 AM   #11
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mac mini + GPU TBD - killing imac sales, got it?
no clue --> gets it

ok, the gpu is trashed, but could a gpu run without a cpu? too general a question, I know

joachimnb could add to the discussion since he/she brought it up
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 10:38 AM   #12
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mac mini + GPU TBD - killing imac sales, got it?
I disagree.

1. These are for different consumers. Most people like the all in 1 feature of the iMac.

2. 27" TB ($1000) + MacMini ($599) is $200 cheaper than 27" iMac but you loose processor (2.9ghz quad core to 2.5ghz dual core) Ram (8GB to 4GB), Hard Drive (1TB to 500GB). Those are significant drops to save $200.

3. If its that bad, make the $1000 TB with no GPU and make a $1200 TB with GPU. Suddenly the MacMini option is more expensive for far less. Consumers would only choose the GPU option if they already have a mac mini or a macbook. Apple gets to milk another $200 out of a consumer who otherwise would just spend the $1000.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 11:13 AM   #13
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I disagree.

1. These are for different consumers. Most people like the all in 1 feature of the iMac.

2. 27" TB ($1000) + MacMini ($599) is $200 cheaper than 27" iMac but you loose processor (2.9ghz quad core to 2.5ghz dual core) Ram (8GB to 4GB), Hard Drive (1TB to 500GB). Those are significant drops to save $200.

3. If its that bad, make the $1000 TB with no GPU and make a $1200 TB with GPU. Suddenly the MacMini option is more expensive for far less. Consumers would only choose the GPU option if they already have a mac mini or a macbook. Apple gets to milk another $200 out of a consumer who otherwise would just spend the $1000.
I disagree with your disagreement

1) Of course that there is group of people voting for AIO - thos will not buy mini - as I did not say that GPU TBD would completely kill iMac sales

2) OK, take it like this - quad core mini with ATD - 1800USD, imac 27 - 1800 USD - RAM is not important as it is user upgradable in both computers... but what about fussion drive? No chacne ordinary user upgrade HDD in imac - must pay apple premium prices - in mini, it is easy to add SSD.. next thing, pure SSD system - imac - pay 1300 usd for apples SSD - mini, choose whichever you want for much less...

3) same logic as in 2...

and consider this - mac mini - easily user upgradable, shorter life cycle - for less you upgrade whole machine... LCDs usually do have longer lifespam... in the end, less money for apple...

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by needfx View Post
no clue --> gets it

ok, the gpu is trashed, but could a gpu run without a cpu? too general a question, I know

joachimnb could add to the discussion since he/she brought it up
of course, there are some external TB enclosures for GPU, but they are sooo expensive at the moment... so technically, it would work.. but I believe, that it will negatively impact apples business model
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 11:59 AM   #14
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ATDs in your case = 2 or more?
Nope, our first 2. We have been using HP 2511 monitors left over from our Windows PC days. So next week we will start to use the ATDs and the HPs will be passed on to friends and family. We will have monitors, sound systems, mice and other bits and pieces to pass on as we complete our migration to OS X. Can't wait.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 12:48 PM   #15
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I disagree with your disagreement

1) Of course that there is group of people voting for AIO - thos will not buy mini - as I did not say that GPU TBD would completely kill iMac sales

2) OK, take it like this - quad core mini with ATD - 1800USD, imac 27 - 1800 USD - RAM is not important as it is user upgradable in both computers... but what about fussion drive? No chacne ordinary user upgrade HDD in imac - must pay apple premium prices - in mini, it is easy to add SSD.. next thing, pure SSD system - imac - pay 1300 usd for apples SSD - mini, choose whichever you want for much less...

3) same logic as in 2...

and consider this - mac mini - easily user upgradable, shorter life cycle - for less you upgrade whole machine... LCDs usually do have longer lifespam... in the end, less money for apple...

----------



of course, there are some external TB enclosures for GPU, but they are sooo expensive at the moment... so technically, it would work.. but I believe, that it will negatively impact apples business model
nice comparisons, but phr0ze's suggestion makes a bit of sense (on charging a premium for TBD with GPU) which would also help customers who always wanted a mini but did not indulge into lack of a proper gpu. though for $200, gpu is what? a gtx650m? or even worse, an intel one?

also, I thought that those TB GPUs were still in the theoretical domain. never actually bothered googling there existence.

----------

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Nope, our first 2. We have been using HP 2511 monitors left over from our Windows PC days. So next week we will start to use the ATDs and the HPs will be passed on to friends and family. We will have monitors, sound systems, mice and other bits and pieces to pass on as we complete our migration to OS X. Can't wait.
it's just like moving to a new lofty flat, but one piece of furniture at a time.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 01:57 PM   #16
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nice comparisons, but phr0ze's suggestion makes a bit of sense (on charging a premium for TBD with GPU) which would also help customers who always wanted a mini but did not indulge into lack of a proper gpu. though for $200, gpu is what? a gtx650m? or even worse, an intel one?

also, I thought that those TB GPUs were still in the theoretical domain. never actually bothered googling there existence.[COLOR="#808080"]
Intel GPU wont maky any sense.. so either nvidia or ati... even 650m would be huuuge... consider this, part of imac buyers choose imac just because lack of decent gpu in mini...
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 05:57 PM   #17
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I do not think a GPU would undermine any sales at all and there are plenty of reasons for that, some of them already mentioned.

The way I see it, the perfomance or spec of such a GPU would be rather irrelevant. The point is a supplement, the move of graphics power to another chassis with the space for such perfomance. This is to prevent a laptop or mini from running down to its knees while under pressure. Or what about that same graphics card taking over for the Mac Pro's built in, in situations where it is not needed and thereby saving power, less heat and less noise.

The only thing I know is that I would want this and also pay the extra. I do not want an iMac, but I also do not want the current TBD.
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Old Dec 19, 2012, 06:03 PM   #18
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I do not think a GPU would undermine any sales at all and there are plenty of reasons for that, some of them already mentioned.

The way I see it, the perfomance or spec of such a GPU would be rather irrelevant. The point is a supplement, the move of graphics power to another chassis with the space for such perfomance. This is to prevent a laptop or mini from running down to its knees while under pressure. Or what about that same graphics card taking over for the Mac Pro's built in, in situations where it is not needed and thereby saving power, less heat and less noise.

The only thing I know is that I would want this and also pay the extra. I do not want an iMac, but I also do not want the current TBD.
I would want that as well, many of us.. but, as I stated above, I think that wont happen (despite being technically possible, apple wont do that)
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 04:47 AM   #19
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I would want that as well, many of us.. but, as I stated above, I think that wont happen (despite being technically possible, apple wont do that)
if anything, apple would not want to confuse the consumer by complexing the offerings
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 04:48 AM   #20
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if anything, apple would not want to confuse the consumer by complexing the offerings
what is complexing on adding gpu to TBD???
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 05:56 AM   #21
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what is complexing on adding gpu to TBD???
I meant, that it would make it more complex for the very average consumer to understand the existence of a gpu in the TBD and how it would justify the cost.

The majority of computer users would not care nor would have a use of a gpu in the TBD, so why give them a dillema they would not understand, so it's a no-go for Apple in any case.

I for one would vote for a gpu on it, but thats just me and some fellow posters above
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 06:08 AM   #22
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I meant, that it would make it more complex for the very average consumer to understand the existence of a gpu in the TBD and how it would justify the cost.

The majority of computer users would not care nor would have a use of a gpu in the TBD, so why give them a dillema they would not understand, so it's a no-go for Apple in any case.

I for one would vote for a gpu on it, but thats just me and some fellow posters above
Completely disagree. Look, what is fussion drive - they just added SSD and mixed it with HDD. Majority of apple users does not know what SSD is... but htey were told fussion drive is freakin fast and big - the best you can get. And they are happy. Dont think that explaining TBD with GPUlike ultimate dock station that give your notebook desktop power is more difficult - apple will definitely have no problem with reasoning.

And, if apple really is about building breakthrough products and giving people technology easy to use, GPU in TBD is logical step - they are selling millions of notebooks with little tragic Intel GPUs - sell those people 27incher with decent gpu - you give them ultraportable notebook that can be transformed into decent desktop just by connecting it to apple display... what else can u ask for as a customer?

But, as I wrote earlier, I dont believe apple would do that - apples business model wont allow that (and it is sad).
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 06:20 AM   #23
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Completely disagree. Look, what is fussion drive - they just added SSD and mixed it with HDD. Majority of apple users does not know what SSD is... but htey were told fussion drive is freakin fast and big - the best you can get. And they are happy. Dont think that explaining TBD with GPUlike ultimate dock station that give your notebook desktop power is more difficult - apple will definitely have no problem with reasoning.

And, if apple really is about building breakthrough products and giving people technology easy to use, GPU in TBD is logical step - they are selling millions of notebooks with little tragic Intel GPUs - sell those people 27incher with decent gpu - you give them ultraportable notebook that can be transformed into decent desktop just by connecting it to apple display... what else can u ask for as a customer?

But, as I wrote earlier, I dont believe apple would do that - apples business model wont allow that (and it is sad).
true, but that is for the customer who understands or knows what he wants & why he wants it, such as ourselves.

it seems that we are agreeing on disagreeing for which reasons apple is not taking that step.

let's pitch it to Tim
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 06:22 AM   #24
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true, but that is for the customer who understands or knows what he wants & why he wants it, such as ourselves.

it seems that we are agreeing on disagreeing for which reasons apple is not taking that step.

let's pitch it to Tim
ok... Ill send email to tim, and why not
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Old Dec 20, 2012, 07:03 AM   #25
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I disagree with your disagreement

1) Of course that there is group of people voting for AIO - thos will not buy mini - as I did not say that GPU TBD would completely kill iMac sales

2) OK, take it like this - quad core mini with ATD - 1800USD, imac 27 - 1800 USD - RAM is not important as it is user upgradable in both computers... but what about fussion drive? No chacne ordinary user upgrade HDD in imac - must pay apple premium prices - in mini, it is easy to add SSD.. next thing, pure SSD system - imac - pay 1300 usd for apples SSD - mini, choose whichever you want for much less...

3) same logic as in 2...

and consider this - mac mini - easily user upgradable, shorter life cycle - for less you upgrade whole machine... LCDs usually do have longer lifespam... in the end, less money for apple...

----------



of course, there are some external TB enclosures for GPU, but they are sooo expensive at the moment... so technically, it would work.. but I believe, that it will negatively impact apples business model
Not only the mini, I think a Thunderbolt Display with built in GPU will affect the bigger MacBook Pros as well. The 13" will draw more attention and the 15" sales will start to slip. Why get a 15" when you can have the portability and have the graphics.
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