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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:02 PM   #101
blackburn
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
No updates for WP7.5 phones
Exactly.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:02 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by gpat View Post
They are doomed.
To success.
No matter how disappointing or crazily priced their products are.
A 16GB iPhone 5 is 729€ here in Italy, and I bought a Galaxy Note 2 for 490€ today.
No wonder they are losing share over here.
Unsubsidized markets hurt Apple especially when those markets are more price-conscious in a down-turn economy. The Apple app-store ecosystem has a much stronger "halo effect" effect on the iPad than it does on the iPhone. When folks buy an iPhone they are looking for social networking apps which exist on Android and games (which still suck on Android). However, if you don't need good games on your phone then iPhone has very little ecosystem advantage over Android (probably not enough to overcome the price difference). Suddenly the iPhone becomes more about its interoperability with Mac, Apple TV, and iPad which then assumes those other things are playing "halo effect" to the iPhone which is not as strong as the reverse situation because the Mac and iPad cost more. Nevertheless, Apple's market share (even with a premium price) should improve in Europe as the European economies improve and the price sensitivity drops.

If Apple could release a powerful low-cost iPhone n Europe then they might be able to fend off Android a bit better in those markets even in economic down-turns.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:03 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
No updates for WP7.5 phones
There's a semi update. It's not all out WP8, but 7.8 does bring a bunch of the new features present there to all the 7.5 phones. At first glance, you probably wouldn't be able to see a difference between the two.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:04 PM   #104
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Unsubsidized markets hurt Apple especially when those markets are more price-conscious in a down-turn economy. The Apple app-store ecosystem has a much stronger "halo effect" effect on the iPad than it does on the iPhone. When folks buy an iPhone they are looking for social networking apps which exist on Android and games (which still suck on Android). However, if you don't need good games on your phone then iPhone has very little ecosystem advantage over Android (probably not enough to overcome the price difference). Suddenly the iPhone becomes more about its interoperability with Mac, Apple TV, and iPad which then assumes those other things are playing "halo effect" to the iPhone which is not as strong as the reverse situation because the Mac and iPad cost more. Nevertheless, Apple's market share (even with a premium price) should improve in Europe as the European economies improve and the price sensitivity drops.

If Apple could release a powerful low-cost iPhone n Europe then they might be able to fend off Android a bit better in those markets even in economic down-turns.
Even with a good economy the iPhone costs almost 150% of the minimum wage. So I don't see it take off. The sweet spot used to be 200€ when there was almost only nokia and the the flagship reached the 200€ mark it would sell like hot cakes. Nowadays with the bad economy I think that the 100€ androids are selling very well.

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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
There's a semi update. It's not all out WP8, but 7.8 does bring a bunch of the new features present there to all the 7.5 phones. At first glance, you probably wouldn't be able to see a difference between the two.
Yeah but it won't support the new apps.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:12 PM   #105
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If Apple could release a powerful low-cost iPhone n Europe
Powerful and low-cost is impossible.
Apple and low-cost is big no no.

If at all Apple decides to do this, they should tie up with RyanAir on ideas.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:13 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by bawbac View Post
Reading the threads here at this very forum any time a new apple product should enlighten you.
That's no source. Such observation offers no significant value at all.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:19 PM   #107
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Yeah but it won't support the new apps.
True, but...uh...that isn't much of a problem for Windows Phone at the moment.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:26 PM   #108
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Wow android is dominating, isnt it over 70 percent worldwide?
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:30 PM   #109
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True, but...uh...that isn't much of a problem for Windows Phone at the moment.
I see what you did there
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:34 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
At first glance, you probably wouldn't be able to see a difference between the two.
WP 7.8 still doesn't have background multitasking for apps like Endomondo
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:38 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by BC2009 View Post
Unsubsidized markets hurt Apple especially when those markets are more price-conscious in a down-turn economy. The Apple app-store ecosystem has a much stronger "halo effect" effect on the iPad than it does on the iPhone. When folks buy an iPhone they are looking for social networking apps which exist on Android and games (which still suck on Android). However, if you don't need good games on your phone then iPhone has very little ecosystem advantage over Android (probably not enough to overcome the price difference). Suddenly the iPhone becomes more about its interoperability with Mac, Apple TV, and iPad which then assumes those other things are playing "halo effect" to the iPhone which is not as strong as the reverse situation because the Mac and iPad cost more. Nevertheless, Apple's market share (even with a premium price) should improve in Europe as the European economies improve and the price sensitivity drops.

If Apple could release a powerful low-cost iPhone n Europe then they might be able to fend off Android a bit better in those markets even in economic down-turns.
The thing is, even older iPhones have crazy retail prices over here. A 8GB iPhone 4 costs 449€, and you can get a Galaxy S3 for that much. A Galaxy Nexus is easily found at 299€, less than the price of an iPad Mini (WiFi, 16GB) or an iPod Touch (New, 32GB).
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:39 PM   #112
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so basically the iPhone is most popular where people do not need to pay full price for it.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:40 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by a.gomez View Post
so basically the iPhone is most popular where people do not need to pay full price for it.
Which countries do you have to pay full price for an iPhone?
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:41 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
These numbers are so fudged its not even funny. Considering samsung alone sells more android smart phones than apple I'd love to know how these numbers add up. You can play with statistics and make them fit whatever outcome you want. Thats obviously what happened here.
If you refuse to accept the numbers, simply look at Apple's sales and profits. Year-to-year, when looking at a quarter, they are increasing.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:45 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by paul4339 View Post
maybe the wording could be better, but all it is a rolling 12-week (one quarter) snapshot of sales... the 'rolling 12-week' is a common stat (in this case it's compared y/y)
It is a rolling 12 week period but for 2012 it has 9 weeks of iPhone5 sales compared to 6 weeks of iPhone 4S sales in 2011. An increased sales share doesn't really have to mean anything changed. A 2 or 3 year graph of the data would be more useful.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:51 PM   #116
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Five years ago Rimm was big. Can they ever come back?
Apple was on the brink once so... if they can hire a Steve Jobs they should be good.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:56 PM   #117
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So Apple customers upgrade more frequently? I'd like a source for that statement.
Good point. I'd think people are more likely to replace $150 phones more often than $600 phones.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 01:59 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by KdParker View Post
True. Once people start to trust MS again, it will gain alot on Android if they are priced about the same.
I don't know why WP isn't doing well. Perhaps it has to do with them being late to the market, but I highly doubt it's because of not trusting MS.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:05 PM   #119
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I don't know why WP isn't doing well. Perhaps it has to do with them being late to the market, but I highly doubt it's because of not trusting MS.
no apps
crappy notifications
stupid interface

take your pick
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:16 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by winston1236 View Post
Android has 72% of world marketshare and apple has 14%. I would hardly consider that something to celebrate. Or did everyone miss last week when google officially declared victory over apple.
It's laughable for one company to declare victory over the other when the other one is far more profitable in that market. Google has a LOOONG way to catch up to Apple when it comes to which company is "winning". In Schmidt's mind, Symbian is victorious since it has more marketshare than both Android and iOS.

They are not even playing the same game but Apple's game seems to be much more beneficial. Google hasn't figured out how to monetize mobile and the comparatively little money they do make from it most of it comes from Apple users.

Google's stock has been stuck in the mud for the past couple of years because the more people move away from browsing on the web to doing on mobile devices, the less money they make. Advertisers don't pay as much for mobile ads, mobile users don't tolerate ads on mobile as much as they do on desktop, and publishers don't have as much space to offer Google's ad on mobile devices as they do on desktop.

The Post PC world and explosion of mobile device use hasn't just been bad for PC makers, its bad for Google as well.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:26 PM   #121
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Then how do you know the reports which Samsung outsold Apple aren't fudged?
Because its android and android is the besssttt!

+1 for your logical retort
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:29 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by dalbir4444 View Post
I don't know why WP isn't doing well. Perhaps it has to do with them being late to the market, but I highly doubt it's because of not trusting MS.
Well do you actually own one? If not then that's step one of the answer to your question.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:31 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Bantz View Post
Wow android is dominating, isnt it over 70 percent worldwide?
What does this have to do with this story?
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:38 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
He didn't suggest they should say anything different to appease him. He just said you can get statistics to say whatever you want.
hmm. if thats true, then get you get these stats to say anything other than that the iphone has 53% of the test bed's market share?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRIST DENN View Post
Definitely! There's a big market for 4.5"-5.5" smartphones.
really? what percentage of the mobile profit share is that size? because at 3.5 and 4", apple already owns 77% of the profit share of mobile...which would lead me to believe there really isnt much of a market for supersized phones.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 02:41 PM   #125
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Good point. I'd think people are more likely to replace $150 phones more often than $600 phones.
Interesting point. I am not sure what Apple's deal is overseas with carriers or with any other carrier BUT - I do know (roughly) what their deal is with ATT when it comes to upgrades.

I preface this by saying this might not hold true for certain contracts on ATT - but applies to most.

ATT is legally not allowed to upgrade any iPhone customer to a new phone (subsidized) for a minimum of 18 months. Now - ATT can offer a reduced price on a new iPhone before then - but nothing fully subsidized.

However - as we know - there have been times where people's upgrade dates have been moved up with the release of a new iPhone. My best guess is because this is an agreement between Apple and ATT and Apple is the one who approves it.

So what's my proof point? I own both iPhones and now a Skyrocket. On both the store level (management) and Corporate - the account I have my Skyrocket on originally had an iPhone. Because I was upgrading to an Android phone, ATT could not let me upgrade (legally) until at least 18 months. However - they said if I already had an Android phone, and because I'm a long time customer/paid bills on time/etc - they could have offered me a fully subsidized phone as early as 6 months if I had really "fought" for it. Definitely after 12 months without much of an issue.

For Apple - it's a great deal because it really locks customers into their ecosystem unless the user wants to dip deeper into their saving to get out. But to stay with Apple - it's easier and at least twice, you've been able to update at full subsidy before you were "technically" allowed to.

Now - with the plethora of manufacturers and phones (and price points) - it's also easy to see why people can/do switch their phones more often on the Android platform as well. I wouldn't say it's "encouraged" - but it appears to be easier.

With the profit margin on Android phones being higher for the carriers (ATT) - and someone can correct me if I'm wrong - it matters less since ATT doesn't have a different rate plan for subsidized phone or not. In fact - it's possible that by selling more Android phones to the same customer - they might even be making more if they retain that customer for a long period of time (vs selling them one iPhone every 18-24 months).

But I'm not a statistician
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