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Old Dec 22, 2012, 06:53 PM   #176
iEvolution
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People don't understand statistics, they are based on a sample group which can be as small as 20 up to thousands. Most of these so called facts are based on small sample groups.

Take statistics with a grain of salt because they are more likely to be wrong rather than correct. On both sides.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 07:13 PM   #177
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They are doomed.
To success.
No matter how disappointing or crazily priced their products are.
A 16GB iPhone 5 is 729€ here in Italy, and I bought a Galaxy Note 2 for 490€ today.
No wonder they are losing share over here.
Only affordable subsidizing can save iOS outside USA. Here in Brazil the plan price of a subsidized iPhone is prohibitive.

I have unlimited data, sms and calls from/to the same carrier plus 100 minutes for USD 45,00. If I get an iPhone 5 and a plan with the same conditions it would cost around USD 150,00-200,00/month plus the device price which costs around USD 500,00 with a contract. No way.
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 09:37 PM   #178
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Yea ... no one saw that excuse coming
The iphone5 destroys the s2 when it comes to sales
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Old Dec 22, 2012, 10:55 PM   #179
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I'd like to see Apple get agressive & release the upcoming iPhone 5S (or whatever they choose to call it) as early in 2013 as possible.

Especially since it's unlikely to feature anything new in terms of style, display size, or anything else of consequence. It's upgrades are likely to be confined to internal changes, so getting ahead of Samsung's release of the S4 would be beneficial.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 12:08 AM   #180
Michael Scrip
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Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post

Because you can get an Android phone for significantly less that an iPhone in most of the world. Even around $100 unsubsidized.
I don't think Apple wants to go after that particular part of the market.

Apple makes premium products. They don't have to cover the entire range.

----------

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Originally Posted by brdeveloper View Post

Only affordable subsidizing can save iOS outside USA. Here in Brazil the plan price of a subsidized iPhone is prohibitive.

I have unlimited data, sms and calls from/to the same carrier plus 100 minutes for USD 45,00. If I get an iPhone 5 and a plan with the same conditions it would cost around USD 150,00-200,00/month plus the device price which costs around USD 500,00 with a contract. No way.
What happens if Apple never has a sizable share across the globe?

As long as they are making money... not laying off employees... keeping developers happy... and customers happy...

Isn't that enough?
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 08:30 AM   #181
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What happens if Apple never has a sizable share across the globe?

As long as they are making money... not laying off employees... keeping developers happy... and customers happy...

Isn't that enough?
Nuh uh. They HAVE to have marketshare to win the smartphone battle!

/s
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 12:41 PM   #182
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The reasons the iPhone has twice the market share in the US compared to Europe are:
The model where discount phones are provided by wireless providers in exchange for higher monthly fees masks the higher cost of the iPhone over similar Android phones.
In the US Android users are subsidizing iPhone users. The cash down being similar means wireless providers are cross subsidizing iPhone users.
The iPhone Apps such as Siri and Passbook are more useful for US users.

That said Android phones also include very cheap basic Android devices and it is not fair to compare ios and Android devices on a direct basis. I would also like Apple to bring out cheaper iPhones for the growing markets in merging economies. Apple's market share in Brazil and India is under 5% and under 10% in China. Cheaper Android devices and to some extent Blackberry phones are having a large part of the market.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 02:43 PM   #183
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The iphone5 destroys the s2 when it comes to sales
Unsurprising as that's the previous model and Android support works (or rather doesn't) differently. What is more interesting is the sales of the 4 and 4s vs galaxy s1 and s2. Apple are very clever and moving existing handsets into the more budget arena whilst Samsung just forget their last ones and bring out some newer phone to fill the slot.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 02:45 PM   #184
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Heh, why is "Bada" even on the list?
Because it is a smartphone os and is competing with iOS. They mention rim even though it is like 6% and microsoft even though it is around 2.5%.

By the way Bada is samsungs homegrown smartphone os. Many may not like samsung for there business practices but they have the ability to make bada a success if they ever decide to dump android.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 03:34 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by iEvolution View Post
People don't understand statistics, they are based on a sample group which can be as small as 20 up to thousands. Most of these so called facts are based on small sample groups.

Take statistics with a grain of salt because they are more likely to be wrong rather than correct. On both sides.
I don't want to sound like I'm being personal about this, but how old are you and how much have you studied methods of gathering statistics and sampling? You can, with a randomized enough sampling, get accurate representations of a large number of people from a very small group. This is not my opinion but rather based on science and methodologies that have proven themselves time and time again.

The real crux is whether or not the sampling is truly representative and random. The further away you get from those two things, the less accurate the results. So yes, with rigorous enough methodologies, you can extrapolate some startlingly precise numbers from a surprisingly small sampling.

Most stats that I've seen related to technology and tech market share are tainted by subtle self-selection (an example: the ones that base iOS vs. Android market share off Internet activity or online purchases.) I haven't looked into the methodologies of these numbers so I have no comment on their accuracy, but if you are going to critique them, at least have some valid reasons on hand to do so. An apparently small sampling, as hard as it might be to believe, isn't a valid critique, not even close.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 07:14 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by vmistery View Post
Unsurprising as that's the previous model and Android support works (or rather doesn't) differently. What is more interesting is the sales of the 4 and 4s vs galaxy s1 and s2. Apple are very clever and moving existing handsets into the more budget arena whilst Samsung just forget their last ones and bring out some newer phone to fill the slot.
So then why are people excited that the S3 outsells the 4s?
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 07:28 PM   #187
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So then why are people excited that the S3 outsells the 4s?
That's the double standard everyone's been having. When Samsung outsells Apple, it's "good" news". When Apple outsells Samsung, it "doesnt matter/ doesnt make sense".

you.
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Old Dec 23, 2012, 07:39 PM   #188
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That's the double standard everyone's been having. When Samsung outsells Apple, it's "good" news". When Apple outsells Samsung, it "doesnt matter/ doesnt make sense".

you.
Yep, that was my point. People are going crazy because the S3 outsells the 4s. But when they're told that the 4S outsells the s2, it's called "unsurprising".

How does that work?
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 01:40 PM   #189
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Yep, that was my point. People are going crazy because the S3 outsells the 4s. But when they're told that the 4S outsells the s2, it's called "unsurprising".

How does that work?
Because the majority of MacRumors members are now Apple haters. It's been that way for at least the past year. MacRumors management has turned this place in to a festering cesspool of Apple hatred because that's who generates the most clicks for ad revenue. It's all about the money.
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 02:37 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post
Because the majority of MacRumors members are now Apple haters.
In your dreams perhaps
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 02:38 PM   #191
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In your dreams perhaps
Well how would you explain it? Why is there such amazement that the S3 outsells the 4S, but the iphone5 outselling the S2 is "unsurprising"?
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 03:32 PM   #192
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Well how would you explain it? Why is there such amazement that the S3 outsells the 4S, but the iphone5 outselling the S2 is "unsurprising"?
What has to do with the claim that the majority of MacRumors people are Apple haters?

By the way, I don't give a **** if the iPhone outsolds Galaxy phones or if Galaxy phones outsold iPhone phones
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Old Dec 24, 2012, 03:37 PM   #193
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What has to do with the claim that the majority of MacRumors people are Apple haters?

By the way, I don't give a **** if the iPhone outsolds Galaxy phones or if Galaxy phones outsold iPhone phones
Well...if you followed the discussion which it seems you didn't, people started talking about how great it was that the S3 outsold the 4S, and the same people said it's not big deal that the 5 outsold the S2. So I was just trying to figure out why that was the case. I think the claim that there are Apple haters here is a pretty good one because what other reason would there be to contradict yourself in two posts?

And I'm sorry, I didn't know that you don't give a ****. I just assumed you did since you took the time to comment in this thread.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 02:17 PM   #194
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It depends on what he's comparing. If the S3 outsold the 4S overall, then yeah, I understand where he's coming from. Apple is arguably still the single most popular smartphone manufacturer, and the 4S is one of their best selling phones. If Samsung sold more S3's than 4S' worldwide, it's a pretty big deal.
how?? the S2 was Samsung's most popular model until the S3, same as the 4S was Apple's most popular model until the 5. Why are we comparing year and a half old phones to 6 month old phones? Makes no sense.

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But if he's going by quarterly sales, then it's not that shocking of a thing. If you want to gauge it's current popularity, it's better to compare it against the iPhone 5. The 4S is now a generation behind and is being pushed more as a budget line phone. It's not exactly a huge surprise seeing that the latest and greatest from X manufacturer outselling it.
Yep, which is why the silly argument makes no sense. Why WOULDN'T the S3, a phone from the most popular and most successful android OEM, outsell a year and a half old phone???



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NECK PUNCH!
Sorry I had to!
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 02:29 PM   #195
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how?? the S2 was Samsung's most popular model until the S3, same as the 4S was Apple's most popular model until the 5. Why are we comparing year and a half old phones to 6 month old phones? Makes no sense.

dot dot dot

Yep, which is why the silly argument makes no sense. Why WOULDN'T the S3, a phone from the most popular and most successful android OEM, outsell a year and a half old phone???
Once again, it depends on how you look at it. I haven't looked at stats in about forever, but I believe the 4S is still Apple's best selling phone. It's a high water mark, in other words. So if Apple sold, say, 130 million 4S', and Samsung sold 140 S3's, then that's something to brag about.

...but, once again, if he's talking about quarterly sales, then it means practically nothing. Hell, even the most dyed in the wool Apple fan would likely expect the S3 to outsell the 4S. It's just...you know...expected.

It all depends on where Oletros is coming from here. I'd read back through the thread, but I'm too sluggish and lazy from Christmas dinner to do something that'd require that much effort. :P

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Sorry I had to!
Too late for apologies. Your neck is as good as punched.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 02:34 PM   #196
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Once again, it depends on how you look at it. I haven't looked at stats in about forever, but I believe the 4S is still Apple's best selling phone. It's a high water mark, in other words. So if Apple sold, say, 130 million 4S', and Samsung sold 140 S3's, then that's something to brag about.

...but, once again, if he's talking about quarterly sales, then it means practically nothing. Hell, even the most dyed in the wool Apple fan would likely expect the S3 to outsell the 4S. It's just...you know...expected.

It all depends on where Oletros is coming from here. I'd read back through the thread, but I'm too sluggish and lazy from Christmas dinner to do something that'd require that much effort. :P
I'll do the legwork for you. Yes, the 4S is Apple's most successful phone. You know why? Because we have no stats about the 5's success. It was only available for 9 days in Q3, and all indications are that it's more successful then the 4S. We'll find out in about 20 days or so how the 5 did when Apple releases its 4Q (Calendar) earnings.

The S2 was Samsung's most popular device until the S3. Forget quarterly sales. Why wouldn't overall sales matter? The S3 is new, it's the MOST popular android handset by a LONG SHOT. So why wouldn't it outsell a year and a half old device from Apple? Let's match up the Q4 ip5 against the q4 s3 and see who takes the cake there? Hint: It won't be the S3.

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Too late for apologies. Your neck is as good as punched. Image
LOL...I'm sorry....
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 02:53 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by patentlawyer View Post
I'll do the legwork for you. Yes, the 4S is Apple's most successful phone. You know why? Because we have no stats about the 5's success. It was only available for 9 days in Q3, and all indications are that it's more successful then the 4S. We'll find out in about 20 days or so how the 5 did when Apple releases its 4Q (Calendar) earnings.

The S2 was Samsung's most popular device until the S3. Forget quarterly sales. Why wouldn't overall sales matter? The S3 is new, it's the MOST popular android handset by a LONG SHOT. So why wouldn't it outsell a year and a half old device from Apple? Let's match up the Q4 ip5 against the q4 s3 and see who takes the cake there? Hint: It won't be the S3.
Because it outselling the 4S would likely put it neck and neck with the 5. Even if the S3 doesn't beat it on flat out raw numbers, it still shows that for the first time since 2008 when the 3G took off, Apple is no longer the single dominant smartphone manufacturer in the market.

Up until the Galaxy S line came out, it seemed like Apple were in a nearly unassailable position. Every new phone that came out was touted as the next iPhone killer, and every one of them fell short, either in build quality, features, or sales numbers. But now? Apple finally has direct competition, and Samsung could take the number 1 spot away from them at some point in the near future if Apple lets their guard down.

That's a pretty big deal.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 03:04 PM   #198
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Because it outselling the 4S would likely put it neck and neck with the 5. Even if the S3 doesn't beat it on flat out raw numbers, it still shows that for the first time since 2008 when the 3G took off, Apple is no longer the single dominant smartphone manufacturer in the market.

Up until the Galaxy S line came out, it seemed like Apple were in a nearly unassailable position. Every new phone that came out was touted as the next iPhone killer, and every one of them fell short, either in build quality, features, or sales numbers. But now? Apple finally has direct competition, and Samsung could take the number 1 spot away from them at some point in the near future if Apple lets their guard down.

That's a pretty big deal.
I see what you mean. I guess I just didn't look at it that way. To me, a new phone outselling an old phone really isn't that big a deal because it's almost expected. I think the BIGGER story is that the 4S is neck in neck with a brand new phone. Of course, that story doesn't sound as good as a new phone outselling an old phone...for some reason.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 06:32 PM   #199
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Why is the S3 outselling the 4S such a big deal, and the 5 outselling the S2 not?
What a dishonest representation to make. S3 and 4S were released within a 6 months of each other and at the time the statistics are from, both were the flagship phone in each of the companies lineups.

Galaxy S2 was released yearly a year and a half before iPhone5 and was a discontinued and superseded model.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 06:40 PM   #200
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I think this report shows the effects of when the cost of the phone is subsidized like here in the USA, Apple will have more sales.

But in much of the world, people have to pay for the full price of the cellphone, and the lower price of phones like the Samsung Galaxy S III is why that phone is very popular in Europe and eastern Asia. (Here in the USA, an iPhone 5 sold without subsid--an "unlocked" model--sells for US$649 to US$849 depending on model.)
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