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Old Dec 26, 2012, 03:36 PM   #101
tomegun
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That's the big question I have in my mind too - what happens first 1/2 next year. Mac Pro (yawn! sorry, if I had money I'd be very excited), laptops (rather exciting especially if MBA gets retina - I'd upgrade my lovely 2012 11"!), ATV or integrated ATV (perhaps an app store for the ATV?), gaming (via the ATV??), and of course there is the chance of an entirely new product we know nothing about yet.
I understand what you are saying, but if you were to put a dollar figure beside each of those, the only one with a price and size combination that will have people standing in line is the ATV (in something close to its current form). Remember, they called that a hobby and it requires the infrastructure - Netflix subscription, computer running iTunes, etc. - to make it worthwhile.

Oh, the MBA could create a buzz too, but it is the only laptop that due for an upgrade. I have never been interested in one of those because of 1) the battery life isn't all that great and 2) they don't have a lot of hard drive space without driving the price up. You know what device people can use in the place of a MBA with some compromises, advantages and disadvantages? Yep, an iPad.

So if you are Apple, and $$$ is the bottom line, what would you do?
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 03:49 PM   #102
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Steve Jobs was absolutely wrong, then.
Actually, Steve Jobs was referring to 7 inch tablets. The mini is for all intents and purposes an 8 inch tablet. Having bought a Nexus 7 and using it alongside the mini, it's very clear to me that an 8 inch screen is much more usable. Just compare the Kindle and video-watching apps on both. The mini is a much better experience, although at the expense of a more pocketable form factor.

The mini will make up for its cannibalization of the higher margin iPad with higher volumes. This thing will reach segments of the population that never previously considered getting a tablet. I would love to see them come out with an iPad mini 2 at the same price point, but with retina. Then drop the iPad mini 1 $50 in 16GB wifi only.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 04:17 PM   #103
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I understand what you are saying, but if you were to put a dollar figure beside each of those, the only one with a price and size combination that will have people standing in line is the ATV (in something close to its current form). Remember, they called that a hobby and it requires the infrastructure - Netflix subscription, computer running iTunes, etc. - to make it worthwhile.

Oh, the MBA could create a buzz too, but it is the only laptop that due for an upgrade. I have never been interested in one of those because of 1) the battery life isn't all that great and 2) they don't have a lot of hard drive space without driving the price up. You know what device people can use in the place of a MBA with some compromises, advantages and disadvantages? Yep, an iPad.

So if you are Apple, and $$$ is the bottom line, what would you do?
If I were Apple where $$$ is the bottom line, I'd stick to tried and true. They have developed a winning formula, and I'd not deviate from it, and based on my experience (I suffered, for my sins, 5 years at IBM) the whole system within Apple supports things the way they are, and increasing the frequency of product updates isn't in their culture and would require a fundamental change in the way things are done with Apple, including a huge change to their brand image. It won't happen. I'm not sure what will be released in the first 1/2 of next year, but new iPads won't happen. Of that, I'm certain.

Oh, btw, my lovely 11" MBA is the perfect complement to my lovely new mini - they were made for each other, and when each receives the "retina makeover," I'll upgrade each and think those two were made for each other! :-)
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 04:57 PM   #104
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The problem is that this is a repeat of the PC wars. Apple tried to outdo the PC manufacturers by playing their game and lost. Remember all the multitude of Mac models to the point of confusion? Jobs came back with his simple strategy of four basic markets and reinvigorated Apple again.

I'd rather see Apple play its own game instead of responding to competitors. But they have shareholders to look after.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:27 PM   #105
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I got a mini for Christmas and I can't believe how good it has been. I originally had a 2 (sold it because it didn't seem to have too many advantages over a 13" Air), now I've got a 15" rMBP and the mini has come into is own. Sure, Retina would be great, but it doesn't detract from the experience like so many have said. I love it.

I'm not surprised the mini is selling so well. Partly because of the time of year, partly due to the price, but mostly because I genuinely believe it's the superior product.

This year Apple has genuinely impressed me twice (first being the rMBP). And it's the first time since 2008, when I got my first MBP. Colour me pleased.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:34 PM   #106
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This is exactly what is happening. There are tons of 4s on the shelf but the lower priced Minis are sold out. The problem is the margin. If Apple makes half as much on each Mini vs. the 4, they need to sell twice as many to make up the expected profit. That is certainly possible. In fact, they could have priced the Mini even higher judging by the prices they command on CL.
I was at Best Buy earlier today and they had at least 20 preowned ipad 4s for sale. Zero Minis.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:46 PM   #107
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... when they bring out the Mini with retina it will be sold along side the current Mini.
Agree. Mini replaces ipad2 as the entry level ipad. Apple releases the mini retina at $429 in the spring and the ipad 5--with redesigned form factor--in the fall. I think well see two events a year for a while.

But then what happens. Evolutionary wieght reduction?

How much power do ipads need? Even if ios goes split screen multitasking, its easier to see a ram boost that additional cpu being needed. Outside of gaming--there are not many computatiionally intensive apps that i know of. Maybe ios gaming is a bigger deal than i realize
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 05:55 PM   #108
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Agree. Mini replaces ipad2 as the entry level ipad. Apple releases the mini retina at $429 in the spring and the ipad 5--with redesigned form factor--in the fall. I think well see two events a year for a while.

But then what happens. Evolutionary wieght reduction?

How much power do ipads need? Even if ios goes split screen multitasking, its easier to see a ram boost that additional cpu being needed. Outside of gaming--there are not many computatiionally intensive apps that i know of. Maybe ios gaming is a bigger deal than i realize
And what price do you feel the ipad5 will be if the retina mini will be $429? If it will be $499, I'm not sure I'd go for the ipad5.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 06:05 PM   #109
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Judging from my own recent experiences in my local Apple Store it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the title for this thread is true.

The past twice I've seen loads of people just wander over to the Minis, pick it up, look visibly blown away after picking it up then jump in line for one.

Before Christmas you had to queue up for iOS devices & the majority of people were buying Minis or iPhones, a lot of models had sold out. I know this because I went in a few times to try & buy one

Surprisingly, people just didn't seem as interested in the larger iPads in the way I'd seen before the Mini was released. The demo table was empty of customers and the sectioned off area of the store selling them had more full size iPads than anything else
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 07:03 PM   #110
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I just read an article where the best selling tablet is still the iPad followed by the Kindle Fire HD and Samsung tablets. They didn't mention the Nexus 7, sorta surprised by that.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 07:17 PM   #111
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Why are we still arguing about this?

If the most important things to you are smaller, portable, handier, lightweight, and low cost, go get the Mini.

If the most important things to you are retina, large screen size, and top of the line speed, go get the iPad 4.

I won't even say what I ended up getting, because everyone should make their own decision based on their own preferences and need.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 08:25 PM   #112
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I just read an article where the best selling tablet is still the iPad followed by the Kindle Fire HD and Samsung tablets. They didn't mention the Nexus 7, sorta surprised by that.
You have to wonder how Google's sales model limits their overall sales. Amazon and Barnes and Noble have built in huge marketing arms through their stores. Samsung has a big presence in Best Buy and other big box retailers where the Nexus 7 doesn't. There is limited opportunities for hands on or impulse buys with the Nexus 7...you pretty much have to know what your looking for and where to find it.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 08:54 PM   #113
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If the most important things to you are smaller, portable, handier, lightweight, and low cost, go get the Mini.

If the most important things to you are retina, large screen size, and top of the line speed, go get the iPad 4.

I won't even say what I ended up getting, because everyone should make their own decision based on their own preferences and need.
No one has sales figures. We are speculating sales Mini versus larger ipads based on the OP and what Apple may do next.

Because even if the Mini is outselling the larger ipads a skillion to one, it doesn't mean i/you/him should buy one too. Depends what fits one's needs/wants most like you wrote.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 11:30 PM   #114
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You mean your dated 4? Good luck trying to sell it. Won't be worth much now with the announcement of the 5.
That's what people said about my 3. Still got 400 for it the week of the announcement. Did the same with the first iPad and the second. I'm not saying the mini is garbage, you all get so defensive. All I said was the "ultimate" version would have a few more things. Calm down
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 01:26 AM   #115
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I upgraded from the 3 to the mini without loss. And yes, the mini is the best ipad. Ipad 3/4 is not worth the size and weight compared to a mini.

I can have a more powerful sharper screen ipad at home doing nothing, or I can have a usable mini with me at almost all times since it fits in my inside jacket pocket.
From my perspective, you downgraded from the 3 to the Mini with a loss, and the size of the Mini and its sub-par screen resolution makes it a significantly poorer experience for you.

My iPad is with me pretty much 24/7 in my man bag, so I'm good to go. Maybe, next time we are riding the subway, we'll be sitting next to one another enjoying what we have, because neither of them is "the best iPad," unless you mean the best one for you
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 08:13 AM   #116
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Anyone who refers to the mini as a toy or dated is missing the point. Which is fine. Apple doesn't care about you and is laughing at you all the way to the bank...
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 08:36 AM   #117
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Of course iPad mini is outselling iPad 2! iPad 2 is 2 years old!

Last edited by yinz; Dec 27, 2012 at 08:37 AM. Reason: (It was a joke, I hope you guys got it..)
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 09:16 AM   #118
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Anyone who refers to the mini as a toy or dated is missing the point. Which is fine. Apple doesn't care about you and is laughing at you all the way to the bank...
lol!! ok!!! as long as its not my money they are taking!
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 09:22 AM   #119
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Agree. Mini replaces ipad2 as the entry level ipad. Apple releases the mini retina at $429 in the spring and the ipad 5--with redesigned form factor--in the fall. I think well see two events a year for a while.

But then what happens. Evolutionary wieght reduction?

How much power do ipads need? Even if ios goes split screen multitasking, its easier to see a ram boost that additional cpu being needed. Outside of gaming--there are not many computatiionally intensive apps that i know of. Maybe ios gaming is a bigger deal than i realize
Apple will not increase the price for a retina iPad Mini...that's a sure way to lose sales. With the amount of the current Mini being sold, all the other components (apart from a new screen) should be cheaper next year....simple economies of scale. The cash saved on these parts will allow for the addition of a retina display at the same price as now.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 09:54 AM   #120
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Of course iPad mini is outselling iPad 2! iPad 2 is 2 years old!
Unless I didn't read closely, the Mini is outselling all of the larger ipads combined. Of course there is hardly any 2nd or 3rd gens available except preowned or refurbished so I'm not surprised there. BUT when you add in the 4th gen and the fact that the Mini doesn't have the horses or the screen it does and the 4 was available for a good price on BF weekend, I think one should take notice!
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 10:37 AM   #121
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Unless I didn't read closely, the Mini is outselling all of the larger ipads combined. Of course there is hardly any 2nd or 3rd gens available except preowned or refurbished so I'm not surprised there. BUT when you add in the 4th gen and the fact that the Mini doesn't have the horses or the screen it does and the 4 was available for a good price on BF weekend, I think one should take notice!
it is almost $200 cheaper... they are capturing the people who wouldn't spend 500 on a tablet. I gotta be honest though, after seeing the nook HD at best buy yesterday there is no way I would pay over 100 more for a mini than it, ecosystem or not. the screen on that nook is beautiful and what the mini should have been. when the mini gets retina it will be awesome and I will buy one to go along with my 4. at home I could never see myself wanting a smaller screen but the mini with retina would be great on the go. as of right now though, I would rather just use my iPhone on the go.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 01:10 PM   #122
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Unless I didn't read closely, the Mini is outselling all of the larger ipads combined. Of course there is hardly any 2nd or 3rd gens available except preowned or refurbished so I'm not surprised there. BUT when you add in the 4th gen and the fact that the Mini doesn't have the horses or the screen it does and the 4 was available for a good price on BF weekend, I think one should take notice!
You read close enough. Everyone who gives you numbers is pulling things out of their buttocks

Anecdotally, for every Mini I've seen in coffee shops and airports, I've seen 5 or 6 iPads. But, were they iPad 2s, 3s, or 4s? I don't know. My guess is that the Mini is selling well enough. And, I haven't actually met anyone who didn't like their Mini (or iPad, iPod, or iPhone). The question is, what do strong Mini sales mean for the iPad? I don't know, but throwing around made up numbers isn't going to tell us much. And, because this isn't a zero-sum game, it may just be that we don't see anything happen at all.

After several years of istuff, we still have four kinds of iPods. The iPod small, the iPod with cellular, the Medium iPod, and the Large iPod.

Last edited by palpatine; Dec 27, 2012 at 01:15 PM.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 08:54 PM   #123
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After several years of istuff, we still have four kinds of iPods. The iPod small, the iPod with cellular, the Medium iPod, and the Large iPod.
great observation! That's interesting that the products have elevated into categories of products but represent the same structure within apples products..
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 09:05 PM   #124
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great observation! That's interesting that the products have elevated into categories of products but represent the same structure within apples products..
Thanks. I am sure I heard it somewhere else, though, so it's not original.

Whoever differentiated them in the first place deserves the most praise, because they built up a brilliant marketing strategy out of inconsequential size differences. The lag in component upgrades for some iPods and the pricing for bigger versions with better componentry are well-suited to pushing us up through the device purchase chain until before we know it, we've got a desk full of istuff, and our families are running around with our tech hand me downs. A few years ago, I would have been hard pressed to explain why I even needed an iPod Touch, much less four versions of it
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Old Dec 28, 2012, 09:42 PM   #125
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But it doesn't have retina. But Kindle Fire HD and Nexus 7 are cheaper (and the Fire has Dolby digital stereo speakers). iPad mini should be a dud, no?
I took the Nexus 7 route instead of the Mini. Since what I want in a small tablet is that it be comfortable to use in one hand, the Mini was out (too wide). The Nexus 7 also can play full HD videos and handle Flash content on the web (Flash not officially supported, but it is easy to 'sideload'). The Mini will let you watch 720p on youtube, but not 1080. And a 32 gig Nexus 7 is just a little more than half the price of a 32 gig Mini.
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