iPad Mini outselling iPad 2 to 1

[DaveOP]

I guess you missed the memo. It's not about specs anymore. It's about what you can do and where/how often you can do it. What good is that great resolution if I leave the iPad home more often than not or put it down after a shorter period of time because its heavier?

The ultimate iPad (and Apple) is about usability, not specs.

The "ultimate iPad" is the current mini with a nicer screen. Don't tell me for a second you would be disappointed if it looked better. You would be lying to yourself. The mini is a cute toy, clearly first gen, great proof of concept. That said, returned two of them now and happily using a 4.

 

[radiologyman]

I guess you missed the memo. It's not about specs anymore. It's about what you can do and where/how often you can do it. What good is that great resolution if I leave the iPad home more often than not or put it down after a shorter period of time because its heavier?

The ultimate iPad (and Apple) is about usability, not specs.

You are so right. The truth is that iPhone 5 is the ultimate iPad for me. 90% of things that iPad does I can do as well on iPhone and it fits in one hand. Alas, I still need it for reading scanned PDFs and watching videos.

 

[nizmoz]

The "ultimate iPad" is the current mini with a nicer screen. Don't tell me for a second you would be disappointed if it looked better. You would be lying to yourself. The mini is a cute toy, clearly first gen, great proof of concept. That said, returned two of them now and happily using a 4.

You mean your dated 4? Good luck trying to sell it. Won't be worth much now with the announcement of the 5.

 

[TJ5921]

The screen looks better. I didn't say the body that's a matter of opinion.

When you say 'lighter' you're obviously referring to the physical bodies of the devices.

 

[bigboar]

You mean your dated 4? Good luck trying to sell it. Won't be worth much now with the announcement of the 5.

where can I go buy this new 5 model you talk about? I really feel bad for the 3 owners if there is a new model out. that would make the 3 two generations old . only 9 months of use and completely worthless in resale value...shame on apple if what you say is true...

edit: nevermind, I see it is a rumor and not an actual announcement....lol

 

[lyngo]

And in other news...

 

[iapplelove]

When you say 'lighter' you're obviously referring to the physical bodies of the devices.

So what's going to happen when the next iPad is thinner and lighter?

Goodbye mini

 

[AppleRobert]

So what's going to happen when the next iPad is thinner and lighter?

Goodbye mini

Well the Mini put a hurting on the larger ipads certainly BUT Apple I didn't think ever envisoned that since the resolution and PPI were only so so compared to the 3rd and 4th gen.

Something tells me that this ipad 5 whatever there will still be a tradeoff to warrant pretty good current Mini sales.

Yes, I certainly agree thinner and lighter but what about the other specs (ie. processor, resoulution/PPI, etc. etc.)? What's Up, Apple?

 

[nizmoz]

where can I go buy this new 5 model you talk about? I really feel bad for the 3 owners if there is a new model out. that would make the 3 two generations old . only 9 months of use and completely worthless in resale value...shame on apple if what you say is true...

edit: nevermind, I see it is a rumor and not an actual announcement....lol

Those rumors from that person or place are lays right as history has shown. You haven't been here long enough to know that.

 

[bigboar]

Those rumors from that person or place are lays right as history has shown. You haven't been here long enough to know that.

I think you missed the point....there is no ipad 5 at the moment so how is the 4 dated? I would ask what you meant by " they are lays right" but I am assuming you mean " always"????

 

[palpatine]

Well the Mini put a hurting on the larger ipads certainly BUT Apple I didn't think ever envisoned that since the resolution and PPI were only so so compared to the 3rd and 4th gen.

Something tells me that this ipad 5 whatever there will still be a tradeoff to warrant pretty good current Mini sales.

Yes, I certainly agree thinner and lighter but what about the other specs (ie. processor, resoulution/PPI, etc. etc.)? What's Up, Apple?

I don't think you are reading the tea leaves in a convincing manner.

First of all, we have no sales numbers. There is no evidence beyond anecdotal observations that the iPad Mini is outselling the iPad. Personally, I think it is at the moment because of pent-up demand and the lack of substantial updates to the iPad, but I have no numbers. Just a hunch.

Second of all, your assumption about strong sales for the Mini is followed by another assumption that Apple will have to change its strategy somehow to accomodate success. Surely, they already planned to have success, and if this was the case, doesn't it make sense that some of the underwhelming (in my opinion) specs on both devices would get a bump next cycle in order to show "improvement" and drive sales among current owners? The obvious targets here would be the body for the iPad 4 and the processor for the iPad Mini.

At this point, as an iPad 3, iPhone 4s, Samsung Galaxy III, and Nexus 7 owner, I pretty much have everything I need in terms of flat rectangles. I am not sure how Apple is going to convince me to dump several hundred more into these gadgets in 2013, especially after it basically made it impossible to sell my iPad 3 to help pay for the upgrade (a very poor business decision, in my opinion, because Apple really should have waited until the spring to come out with a decent upgrade to the iPad 4).

Microsoft, by the way, which I fully expected to be a major player in this market, is a dismal failure (for my needs). I've had the opportunity to use the Surface and it was very slick, but terribly disappointing. The battery life + problems with the Surface Pro are likely to make that a non-starter for me as well. Without adequate competition, Apple is unlikely to push too hard for radical updates in 2013.

 

[AppleRobert]

Well as far as you getting the next ipad whatever, your situation is one of minority already owning what you do.

Some folks already owning the 3 have already taken the plunge with the 4 regardless that not being a major upgrade. OR some folks have either kept or sold the 3 and still bought a Mini.

Why did Apple release the 4 so soon? Beats me and very very few saw it coming.

As far as the Mini, I am very very surprised that size and weight have captured this much success (based on the fact a Mini isn't easily found by most average Joe/Jane) versus the processor and Retina screen of the 4th gen.

There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the Mini is outselling the larger ipads. Is it 2 to 1? Perhaps not but I bet it is close and that is why IMHO a newer streamlined version of the 4 is very soon on the way. And the rumors are too strong to ignore. What processor and screen it will include remains to be seen.

 

[WilliamLondon]

...especially after it basically made it impossible to sell my iPad 3 to help pay for the upgrade (a very poor business decision, in my opinion, because Apple really should have waited until the spring to come out with a decent upgrade to the iPad 4).

In another thread I was arguing that releasing products twice yearly instead of once (or so) yearly would have a devastating effect on the second hand market, and the response from a few people was that Apple doesn't care about the second hand market, to which I replied that they do because it affects people's ability to sell their devices so they can upgrade, which you're experiencing right now.

The 6 month window isn't ideal as an upgrade window for Apple products, and the only reason (I believe) they upgraded the iPad to iPad 4 (and announced it - they could have upgraded silently) is because they aren't going to upgrade it again until autumn next year, and they wanted to make sure the world knew it was "fresh" so it would sell for the whole year. I don't think an upgrade to the iPad (full sized or mini) is going to happen until autumn, and it's rather unfortunate for iPad 3 owners who've had to suffer this change of release cycle.

 

[palpatine]

In another thread I was arguing that releasing products twice yearly instead of once (or so) yearly would have a devastating effect on the second hand market, and the response from a few people was that Apple doesn't care about the second hand market, to which I replied that they do because it affects people's ability to sell their devices so they can upgrade, which you're experiencing right now.

The 6 month window isn't ideal as an upgrade window for Apple products, and the only reason (I believe) they upgraded the iPad to iPad 4 (and announced it - they could have upgraded silently) is because they aren't going to upgrade it again until autumn next year, and they wanted to make sure the world knew it was "fresh" so it would sell for the whole year. I don't think an upgrade to the iPad (full sized or mini) is going to happen until autumn, and it's rather unfortunate for iPad 3 owners who've had to suffer this change of release cycle.

I was pretty disappointed. This is really the only way I can afford to deal with the Apple tax -- selling Apple products (which have a high resale value) to fund new purchases. Apple essentially kicked me out of the upgrade cycle, and I don't have much incentive right now to jump back into it. They've done this before, though, and they'll do it again, so I guess I can't complain about being a glutton for punishment.

What choice do we have? After all, as I mentioned, Microsoft is not stepping up to the plate with a decent alternative. Android is great now as an OS, there are great devices now (the Nexus 10 is arguably better than the iPad 4) as well. However, we still lack much depth in each category of apps for Windows and Android. For my work case, neither is acceptable.

If you are right, maybe I will upgrade in the autumn next year. It's difficult to say. I am not terribly enthusiastic about it at the moment.

I will say, though, that the 3 is a very satisfying experience, and I remain just as pleased with it as I was the day it came out. With the Retina display, it really is an exciting product, and I was much more excited about upgrading from 2 to 3 than I was about upgrading from 1 to 2. At least I got kicked out of the cycle after getting a great product! I'd hate to be stuck with the 2 (a fine device, but at full price and lacking the Retina display, it isn't my thing).

 

[phr0ze]

I was pretty disappointed. This is really the only way I can afford to deal with the Apple tax -- selling Apple products (which have a high resale value) to fund new purchases. Apple essentially kicked me out of the upgrade cycle, and I don't have much incentive right now to jump back into it. They've done this before, though, and they'll do it again, so I guess I can't complain about being a glutton for punishment.

What choice do we have? After all, as I mentioned, Microsoft is not stepping up to the plate with a decent alternative. Android is great now as an OS, there are great devices now (the Nexus 10 is arguably better than the iPad 4) as well. However, we still lack much depth in each category of apps for Windows and Android. For my work case, neither is acceptable.

If you are right, maybe I will upgrade in the autumn next year. It's difficult to say. I am not terribly enthusiastic about it at the moment.

I will say, though, that the 3 is a very satisfying experience, and I remain just as pleased with it as I was the day it came out. With the Retina display, it really is an exciting product, and I was much more excited about upgrading from 2 to 3 than I was about upgrading from 1 to 2. At least I got kicked out of the cycle after getting a great product! I'd hate to be stuck with the 2 (a fine device, but at full price and lacking the Retina display, it isn't my thing).

I upgraded from the 3 to the mini without loss. And yes, the mini is the best ipad. Ipad 3/4 is not worth the size and weight compared to a mini.

I can have a more powerful sharper screen ipad at home doing nothing, or I can have a usable mini with me at almost all times since it fits in my inside jacket pocket.

 

[Glideslope]

But it doesn't have retina. But Kindle Fire HD and Nexus 7 are cheaper (and the Fire has Dolby digital stereo speakers). iPad mini should be a dud, no?

I see your point. However, at this point in time I really think feature sets are becoming less of the equation. Personally, I have never owned a Tablet until purchasing my Mini a few weeks ago.

The Kindle Fire is Android in a Amazon bubble. The Nexus 7 is nice, but is cheaply constructed. Neither company makes money on there 2 products.

Now, I'll admit I'm Apple bias. However I own Samsung LED TV's and Blue Ray (and still spend 95% of my time streaming HD).

The mini is honestly perfect the way it is. HD on a 7.9" is nice, but it was in no way a deal breaker for those I know with the mini. Myself included.
The mini feels like no other small tablet. The extra space with 7.9" has an amazing effect in usability, IMO. It's plenty fast, has amazing battery duration on the Wi-Fi model (ours), and a very nice display. You also join the Eco-System. That is what is driving Apples products. The Eco-System.

I've always been hesitant about Tablets. I'm a desktop person who takes a notebook to work because the MP is too heavy.

This iPad mini has completely change the way I look at gathering information, and communicating. The size, materials, and construction are perfect, and people feel, and experience that.

IMO, the mini could be a problem for the iPad 4 until the new super thin and light 5 10" (?) is out next year.

Eddy deserves all the credit for this one. Well done. The end of January call will be amazing.

 

[Fry-man22]

^^^^^^

They want to be able to fit it in their pocket?? I don't know too many articles of clothing where a larger ipad would fit.

I agree with you though. Folks have been carting laptops around for years and now an ipad that isn't a MINI isn't any good to carry around??

These people are either huge or buy clothes with purposefully huge pockets.

I have no pockets on any of my clothing (coats, jackets, cargo) where my mini fits without feeling like I've pulled an Eastwood and stuck a metal plate under my clothes for bullet resistance.

There is no way one is walking around with this thing in a pocket without being 100% aware of it all the time.

That's not saying the smaller size isn't cooler, it's just in NO WAY pocketable. It DOES make it way more nice to throw it into a small messenger with some other stuff and not feel like you've loaded it to capacity.

I bike to work sometimes. People spend thousands of dollars to take a pound of weight off a bike - I did it for $329. By swapping out the big iPad for the mini to carry to work I shaved a pound off my commute and got a cool second iPad.

 

[AppleRobert]

These people are either huge or buy clothes with purposefully huge pockets.

I have no pockets on any of my clothing (coats, jackets, cargo) where my mini fits without feeling like I've pulled an Eastwood and stuck a metal plate under my clothes for bullet resistance.

There is no way one is walking around with this thing in a pocket without being 100% aware of it all the time.

That's not saying the smaller size isn't cooler, it's just in NO WAY pocketable. It DOES make it way more nice to throw it into a small messenger with some other stuff and not feel like you've loaded it to capacity.

I bike to work sometimes. People spend thousands of dollars to take a pound of weight off a bike - I did it for $329. By swapping out the big iPad for the mini to carry to work I shaved a pound off my commute and got a cool second iPad.

I don't think it matters they are aware they are carrying the Mini when it is their pocket. I did it for awhile but no way I would ever attempt it with the 4th gen even if I found something whereby it would fit. The Mini in my pocket was great, frees up both hands and obviously while noticeable the weight is insignificant.

 

[AppleWarMachine]

it will at least be 3 to 1 when the mini gets Retina

 

[2298754]

I really hope the next-gen iPad Mini gets the Retina. If it does, then I might get it.

 

[Infinitewisdom]

I see your point. However, at this point in time I really think feature sets are becoming less of the equation. Personally, I have never owned a Tablet until purchasing my Mini a few weeks ago.

The Kindle Fire is Android in a Amazon bubble. The Nexus 7 is nice, but is cheaply constructed. Neither company makes money on there 2 products.

Now, I'll admit I'm Apple bias. However I own Samsung LED TV's and Blue Ray (and still spend 95% of my time streaming HD).

The mini is honestly perfect the way it is. HD on a 7.9" is nice, but it was in no way a deal breaker for those I know with the mini. Myself included.
The mini feels like no other small tablet. The extra space with 7.9" has an amazing effect in usability, IMO. It's plenty fast, has amazing battery duration on the Wi-Fi model (ours), and a very nice display. You also join the Eco-System. That is what is driving Apples products. The Eco-System.

I've always been hesitant about Tablets. I'm a desktop person who takes a notebook to work because the MP is too heavy.

This iPad mini has completely change the way I look at gathering information, and communicating. The size, materials, and construction are perfect, and people feel, and experience that.

IMO, the mini could be a problem for the iPad 4 until the new super thin and light 5 10" (?) is out next year.

Eddy deserves all the credit for this one. Well done. The end of January call will be amazing.

This. All day every day.

My father, who has an iPad 2, took one look at the mini in the store and immediately commented, "then why would anyone buy the other iPad?" I pointed out the retina display and he saw the difference but it wasn't striking. Factor in a much lower price and I don't think there's any question the mini will sell better.

Keep in mind that, according to reports, Apple only ordered 10 million iPad minis for this quarter. There's still a lot of pent up demand for the device.

 

[Dmunjal]

This. All day every day.

My father, who has an iPad 2, took one look at the mini in the store and immediately commented, "then why would anyone buy the other iPad?" I pointed out the retina display and he saw the difference but it wasn't striking. Factor in a much lower price and I don't think there's any question the mini will sell better.

Keep in mind that, according to reports, Apple only ordered 10 million iPad minis for this quarter. There's still a lot of pent up demand for the device.

This is exactly what is happening. There are tons of 4s on the shelf but the lower priced Minis are sold out. The problem is the margin. If Apple makes half as much on each Mini vs. the 4, they need to sell twice as many to make up the expected profit. That is certainly possible. In fact, they could have priced the Mini even higher judging by the prices they command on CL.

 

[tomegun]

...they aren't going to upgrade it again until autumn next year...

So if you work for Apple, or you are a stockholder, you are OK with not having a new product come out for 8 or 9 months minimum?

Was it good business to bring out the Mini and iPad 4 when they did? I would think the sales numbers indicate it was a successful launch. Would it be good to not bring anything out for nearly a year? Uh, nothing from nothing leaves nothing. That doesn't keep the lights on...and they could bring something out.

My initial thought, and something I'm sticking to, is that when they bring out the Mini with retina it will be sold along side the current Mini. I think the price will be somewhere around $50 less than the iPad 4 because it will have the same technology in it. I think I heard Tim Cook or Ive say something about not thinking of the Mini like a shrunk down iPad, but an iPad of a different size.

It would really piss people off if they made the next iPad (5?) with the design of the Mini. The screen size would stay the same, but the overall product size would shrink. I don't know if that is possible with the internals, but it would make a slick package more slick(er?). I'm sure new Smart Cover and case sizes would send people over the edge with complaints.

 

[tekno]

Steve Jobs was absolutely wrong, then.

 

[WilliamLondon]

So if you work for Apple, or you are a stockholder, you are OK with not having a new product come out for 8 or 9 months minimum?

Was it good business to bring out the Mini and iPad 4 when they did? I would think the sales numbers indicate it was a successful launch. Would it be good to not bring anything out for nearly a year? Uh, nothing from nothing leaves nothing. That doesn't keep the lights on...and they could bring something out.

That's the big question I have in my mind too - what happens first 1/2 next year. Mac Pro (yawn! sorry, if I had money I'd be very excited), laptops (rather exciting especially if MBA gets retina - I'd upgrade my lovely 2012 11"!), ATV or integrated ATV (perhaps an app store for the ATV?), gaming (via the ATV??), and of course there is the chance of an entirely new product we know nothing about yet.

I understand the gap in launch-oriented boosts to revenue, but moving to a half-yearly refresh cycle would be taking Apple away from what it's all about: premium products with big profit margins. Doubling the frequency of updates costs a company a lot of money - not only is there the R&D for new features, but there is the supply chain cost (think retooling of the machines, think stocking and warehousing of units in preparation for a big launch), and another cost which can be huge and is marketing (promotion, advertising, PR) and channel management. Now add customer service (education, support), sales, etc. and with the new refresh cycle you've halved the number of units these costs (which are roughly the same with every refresh of a product) can be spread amongst, meaning that the cost per unit to Apple has increased, so Apple either reduces profit margins or prices to consumers go up. This is the main reason I don't see them moving away from a yearly upgrade cycle for the iPad line, or for any other Apple line (exceptions and anomalies are not the rule and don't count).

Exciting times, and more excitement to come next year, can't wait to see how it all unfolds.