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Old Jan 1, 2013, 12:54 AM   #26
cclloyd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dukebound85 View Post
Really now? What legitimate reason does one have for having installous? App trials with the intent to buy if you like? Ok but that is still against TOS and infringing copyright and once again I'd wager most don't bother buying.

What other reasons?

And why would one download installous and not have the intent to use it?
I either bought the app or deleted it rather quickly actually. Never fully pirated an app.
----------------------------
I also download a bunch of apps that I don't use. Why not? Maybe I'll need it at some point. I'm only 18 and won't bother investing for a while but I have the eTrade app for cuz.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowLeopard2008 View Post
The main reason for root access on Android is to install custom ROMs. The main reason for root access/jailbreak on iOS is pirated apps. By main, I mean 50%+ of people who do such things.

And I HIGHLY doubt that the people who jb for piracy is above 30%. Basically everyone I know who jailbroke use it for cool tweaks that would never be allowed on the app store.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 01:59 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by cclloyd9785 View Post
I either bought the app or deleted it rather quickly actually. Never fully pirated an app.
----------------------------
I also download a bunch of apps that I don't use. Why not? Maybe I'll need it at some point. I'm only 18 and won't bother investing for a while but I have the eTrade app for cuz.






And I HIGHLY doubt that the people who jb for piracy is above 30%. Basically everyone I know who jailbroke use it for cool tweaks that would never be allowed on the app store.
That justification does not make using installous alright. How is this a hard concept? You are circumventing copyright, going against the TOS, and depriving the developer of income regardless how quickly you delete the app

In regards to downloading apps you don't use. Can you really not see the difference between downloading a free app like etrade, as you said, whose purpose is to facilitate tradings vs an app whose SOLE purpose is to bypass PAYING for apps?
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 02:49 AM   #28
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Unless you've somehow gathered accurate statistics that prove it, don't generalize and say that ALL jailbreakers are pirates/thieves. The most basic reason for jailbreaking is to allow the installation of third-party software (such as Installous). Jailbreaking is just a way of opening up the realm of possible uses and interactions that a user can achieve with their iDevice. Just because there are apps out there like Installous, does NOT mean that EVERY jailbreaker uses it. Personally, I'd rather use AppShopper and grab the good ones when they go free for a limited time. Yea, not all apps will be temporarily free but it definitly cuts back on costs. Might I also not that Installous isn't 100% all the time. AppTrackr had it's problems, plus the download links had a short lifespan. AppTrackr/Installous only listed paid apps and not every app was the latest version.

That's enough rambling out of me...
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 06:16 AM   #29
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Post Jailbreaking is not mainly about pirating apps

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Originally Posted by tymaster50 View Post
Most peoples reasoning for jailbreaking IS in fact installuous [snip]
Really? Most people I know who jailbreak do so to unlock the full productive and aesthetic potential of their iOS products (i.e. get around Apple's ridiculous control freakery and actually own their devices).

I'm sure plenty of people pirate cracked apps or test drive them before buying, but it is a mistake to think the jailbreak scene mainly revolves around app pirating.

FYI, there is an interesting article on TorrentFreak that speculates why the guys behind Hackulous decided to shut it down.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 06:47 AM   #30
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Post Jailbreaking is about freeing your iOS device from Apple's jail

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Originally Posted by SnowLeopard2008 View Post
The main reason for root access/jailbreak on iOS is pirated apps. By main, I mean 50%+ of people who do such things.
Got any hard evidence to back that up? Anyone can take a guess, but it means nothing unless you can prove it. Anecdotal evidence isn't proof. While I agree that many people do pirate apps I don't throw around bogus stats and opinions like they are facts.

The jailbreakers I know personally do not pirate apps. There are some very compelling - and obvious - reasons for uncrippling iOS devices that do not involve "getting free stuff". Do you really think Jay Freeman (Saurik) and the other JB pioneers decided to free their Apple crippled products with the motive of installing a few cracked $0.99 apps?

FWIW, one thing I have noticed is that the pirating demographic tends to skew toward high school age/early 20s males, while people in their mid-20s and older tend to jailbreak for other reasons. Anecdotal so YMMV of course.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 06:53 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BR485 View Post
Got any hard evidence to back that up? Anyone can take a guess, but it means nothing unless you can prove it. Anecdotal evidence isn't proof.
I often wonder myself where these people who claim everyone who jailbreaks does so to steal apps get their percentage figures.

I believe I could tell you where they get them, but then my post would get deleted
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 08:31 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by dhlizard View Post
I often wonder myself where these people who claim everyone who jailbreaks does so to steal apps get their percentage figures.

I believe I could tell you where they get them, but then my post would get deleted
I think it's just from the group around them. So if you and your buddies jailbreak and don't steel you see it as small like us. Now if half of there buddies steel well that's 50% and another group everybody steels so it's everybody or almost all. it's all who you hang with or how you perceive it. Since there are no real statistics. Personally I hope I never see the need or desire to steel a $1 or $2 app I can read the reviews in the app store to figure out if a app is worth it or not.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 01:26 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by dhlizard View Post
I often wonder myself where these people who claim everyone who jailbreaks does so to steal apps get their percentage figures.

I believe I could tell you where they get them, but then my post would get deleted
So posts saying the contrary are inherently true then? You and others claim that the majority who jailbreak don't pirate. Where do you get that notion? Or is it someplace where I could state but my post would be deleted?

Piracy is more rampant than you claim. When you have multiple instances of developers having a vast amt of downloads via piracy, it is a problem. Whether or not you care doesn't change that fact

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...paid-app-sales
heck from the main page
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1501585

Then you have developers who post stats such as this stating 92% of app downloads are due to piracy and not paid.
http://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/05...lem-jailbreak/

Another source claims that over 40% of jailbroken devices have cracked apps

Another source that claims it is a substantial issue

Now you can ignore these results, which were a very quick google search by the way, and continue to hold onto the notion that most who jailbreak do not pirate but the evidence is not stacked towards that reality.

Last edited by dukebound85; Jan 1, 2013 at 01:41 PM.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 01:56 PM   #34
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If developers are so afraid of piracy. Why not make the game a free download, then add in-app purchases.

"In order to fight against piracy we had to add in-app purchases. You can play a first few levels and to move on, it will cost $.99 to get the full version"
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 01:56 PM   #35
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Apple bought Instalous as well as many hackers. That's why there is no untether jailbreak so far.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 02:01 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinggus View Post
If developers are so afraid of piracy. Why not make the game a free download, then add in-app purchases.

"In order to fight against piracy we had to add in-app purchases. You can play a first few levels and to move on, it will cost $.99 to get the full version"
That can be cracked as well, the fight againts piracy is a very though one, you can't root it out.

What might be an interesting comparison is how those figures are on android devices as that is a more open community, it might shed some light on the assertion that the closed apple concept contributes to piracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hgrimberg View Post
Apple bought Instalous as well as many hackers. That's why there is no untether jailbreak so far.
? they only hired @comex for a while, he left apple some time ago
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 02:06 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hgrimberg View Post
Apple bought Instalous as well as many hackers. That's why there is no untether jailbreak so far.
Where did you get the source for Apple bought Installous?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TriJetHero View Post
That can be cracked as well, the fight againts piracy is a very though one, you can't root it out.

What might be an interesting comparison is how those figures are on android devices as that is a more open community, it might shed some light on the assertion that the closed apple concept contributes to piracy.



? they only hired @comex for a while, he left apple some time ago
IAP Free or whatever the app is can't break alot of apps if the developers implement checking with the Apple server. Unless you know something I don't.

---

I'm not going to lie, I used Installous and now my phone is filled up with apps and games I haven't touched in months, I just filled up my 16GB iPhone last night. Now I just need to figure out what apps/games I'm not using. But, as I'm getting older I realize what's the point. I just bought my second app ever sicne 2009. First one I asked for it to be cracked, it was a betting app that also helped with statistics for new gamblers. I made $30, so I bought the app as I felt it was the right thing to do. Second app, just because I hated opening 10 tabs on Chrome on my Mini, so I bought Tapatalk HD after trying it out on my wife's iPad 3 using Installous.

Now, I just will be reviewing apps and juggling back and forth on what to spend my money on. I also started an account with AppShopper and watching prices.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 02:37 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BR485 View Post
Got any hard evidence to back that up? Anyone can take a guess, but it means nothing unless you can prove it. Anecdotal evidence isn't proof. While I agree that many people do pirate apps I don't throw around bogus stats and opinions like they are facts.

The jailbreakers I know personally do not pirate apps. There are some very compelling - and obvious - reasons for uncrippling iOS devices that do not involve "getting free stuff". Do you really think Jay Freeman (Saurik) and the other JB pioneers decided to free their Apple crippled products with the motive of installing a few cracked $0.99 apps?

FWIW, one thing I have noticed is that the pirating demographic tends to skew toward high school age/early 20s males, while people in their mid-20s and older tend to jailbreak for other reasons. Anecdotal so YMMV of course.
Take your own advice. Just because the jailbreakers you know personally don't doesn't mean that jailbreakers as a whole group don't. Again, anecdotal evidence.

Btw, Saurik isn't a jailbreak pioneer. He runs Cydia, which amongst other things is primarily an app store for jailbroken devices. That is very different from being a hacker who finds exploits and writes programs to actually jailbreak devices. People like musclenerd, ipod4g and geohot are jailbreak pioneers.

Calling my "anecdotal" evidence worthless is the same as calling your entire post worthless. Your demographic is actually incorrect and if you ask politely, I will share with you some legitimate sources.

Another thing, it's much easier to hack into a jailbroken device than one in "Apple's jail", even if you have changed the root password and other security measures people sometimes take after jailbreaking. That jail is protecting you from the malware and other malicious stuff that plagues Android. Speaking as someone who knows a great deal about computer security. So while you get the ability to tweak your device, install apps both pirated and not, install themes and other customizations, you give up security. Some find it worth it, some (like myself) don't.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 06:09 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by dukebound85 View Post
That justification does not make using installous alright. How is this a hard concept? You are circumventing copyright, going against the TOS, and depriving the developer of income regardless how quickly you delete the app

In regards to downloading apps you don't use. Can you really not see the difference between downloading a free app like etrade, as you said, whose purpose is to facilitate tradings vs an app whose SOLE purpose is to bypass PAYING for apps?

It actually does justify it. Everyone here is breaking the ToS by jailbreaking in the first place, whether they pirate or not. I am not depriving them of income by using it as a trial. If I bought it they still get their income. If I deleted it then I would have gone with a free alternative before I downloaded it if I didn't use Installous.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 07:26 PM   #40
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I actually thought about this and to some degree feel the same way.

I think Apple could greatly benefit by opening iOS to some degree.

If you think about it, OS X is "open" - based on UNIX, and we can install any applications and modify the system as we please.

As iOS becomes the daily driver as an OS for most users, opening it seems purely logical.

I'm not sure if I see them allowing jailbreaking, for security reasons, but maybe working with making the app store more open.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 07:33 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by cclloyd9785 View Post
It actually does justify it. Everyone here is breaking the ToS by jailbreaking in the first place, whether they pirate or not. I am not depriving them of income by using it as a trial. If I bought it they still get their income. If I deleted it then I would have gone with a free alternative before I downloaded it if I didn't use Installous.
Love the reasoning...

How about use the free alternative from the get go or buy the paid app? Not a hard concept. But feel free to continue to justify your pirating of apps if it makes you feel better
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 09:23 PM   #42
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 10:07 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by dukebound85 View Post
So posts saying the contrary are inherently true then? You and others claim that the majority who jailbreak don't pirate. Where do you get that notion? Or is it someplace where I could state but my post would be deleted?

Piracy is more rampant than you claim. When you have multiple instances of developers having a vast amt of downloads via piracy, it is a problem. Whether or not you care doesn't change that fact

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...paid-app-sales
heck from the main page
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1501585

Then you have developers who post stats such as this stating 92% of app downloads are due to piracy and not paid.
http://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/05...lem-jailbreak/

Another source claims that over 40% of jailbroken devices have cracked apps

Another source that claims it is a substantial issue

Now you can ignore these results, which were a very quick google search by the way, and continue to hold onto the notion that most who jailbreak do not pirate but the evidence is not stacked towards that reality.
Excuse me, but I don't recall making a post supporting the validity of the quoted percentages nor attacking their accuracy.
I simply wonder where these percentages that some banter about as accurate come from.

I guess because i choose not to steal the work product of others means you feel the need to attack me and accuse me of supporting a position that I never endorsed.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 10:20 PM   #44
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Well I guess it's safe to say the mods no longer care if anybody talks about installus or pirating anymore.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 11:36 PM   #45
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App developer here. While I'm happy that Installous is dead, please don't rejoice too much.

Installous - just a simple front end app that installs from apptrackr.org

Developers are much happier that apptrackr is dead. Now it's a pain to steal apps again. Apptrackr had a sophisticated dead link reporting system along with a better versioning system than the actual iTunes store.

We can only hope and pray that the hackulous developers no longer support AppSync. That's the terrible app that allows cracked apps to be run.

So let me know when AppSync is gone from Cydia.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 11:44 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by SnowLeopard2008 View Post
The main reason for root access on Android is to install custom ROMs. The main reason for root access/jailbreak on iOS is pirated apps. By main, I mean 50%+ of people who do such things.

Apple won't allow jailbreaks. Ever.
The reason Apple won't consciously allow jailbreaks isn't necessarily piracy related, although that is ONE reason.

The other major, more important reason is that it is impossible to guarantee (or even attempt to guarantee) the security of a user's data if the device has been jailbroken.

If the device is jailbroken and can run unsigned code, then potentially all manner of spyware, malware, etc could be included with the apps the user is installing.

If the device is only able to run signed code, at least the malware has to get through apple's application vetting process first before it is signed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinggus View Post
If developers are so afraid of piracy. Why not make the game a free download, then add in-app purchases.

"In order to fight against piracy we had to add in-app purchases. You can play a first few levels and to move on, it will cost $.99 to get the full version"

Because if the device is jailbroken, the end user can simply copy the in-app purchased content as well? Also, i believe the app store T&C has limitations on in-app purchased content - to stop people setting up their own store, bypassing the official iOS app store.
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Old Jan 1, 2013, 11:53 PM   #47
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even without installous, there are still other 3rd party app downloaders
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:20 AM   #48
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even without installous, there are still other 3rd party app downloaders
I think with iTunes 11 you can't even install those apps.

I tried to install the iTether app and the MAME app and iTunes 11 wouldn't let me.

When it comes to iTunes store apps I'm not a big pirate however what was great about installouis was that it allowed you to find apps that got pulled from the app store.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 12:57 AM   #49
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The reason Apple won't consciously allow jailbreaks isn't necessarily piracy related, although that is ONE reason.

The other major, more important reason is that it is impossible to guarantee (or even attempt to guarantee) the security of a user's data if the device has been jailbroken.

If the device is jailbroken and can run unsigned code, then potentially all manner of spyware, malware, etc could be included with the apps the user is installing.

If the device is only able to run signed code, at least the malware has to get through apple's application vetting process first before it is signed.



Because if the device is jailbroken, the end user can simply copy the in-app purchased content as well? Also, i believe the app store T&C has limitations on in-app purchased content - to stop people setting up their own store, bypassing the official iOS app store.
Yes, I agree. The reason why I added a new line in between my post was to differentiate them as not being related to each other.
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Old Jan 2, 2013, 01:13 AM   #50
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Love the reasoning...

How about use the free alternative from the get go or buy the paid app? Not a hard concept. But feel free to continue to justify your pirating of apps if it makes you feel better

You obviously haven't been listening to me then. Otherwise you would have realized that I never pirated an app.

Google's definition of pirating: Use or reproduce (another's work) for profit without permission, usually in contravention of patent or copyright.

I never profited, never stole money from the developer, and never by my own actions caused the developer to lose money they would have otherwise acquired.
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