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Old Jan 6, 2013, 04:54 PM   #301
imacintosh.0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehustleman View Post
I totally disagree.

Laptop keyboards suck, no mouse, can't upgrade it nearly as easily, some things you just can't leave a desk top for
I agree. There's really no way to say what people's preferences are. Differs for anyone. I'm sure desktops are still just as popular as laptops especially in businesses. You're almost always going to have a tower over a laptop in a corporate setting.
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 05:13 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehustleman View Post
I totally disagree.

Laptop keyboards suck, no mouse, can't upgrade it nearly as easily, some things you just can't leave a desk top for
My laptop has both a standard mechanical keyboard and a mouse. Upgrades ? I just change the whole laptop when it needs "upgrading".

Quote:
Originally Posted by imacintosh.0 View Post
I agree. There's really no way to say what people's preferences are. Differs for anyone. I'm sure desktops are still just as popular as laptops especially in businesses. You're almost always going to have a tower over a laptop in a corporate setting.
Sure, you can't discuss people's preferences, but the problem is you can discuss industry numbers and desktop sales are falling behind laptop sales, that's the unfortunate truth for people that still prefer desktops.

In a corporate setting, where I work (20k employees), we're mostly moving away from desktops. We use laptops with docking stations instead. My desk has 2 Full HD monitors hooked up to my docking station, all powered by my small 12" HP Elitebook.

Source :
2008 - Notebook Sales Outpace Desktop Sales
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Old Jan 6, 2013, 08:53 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Not to rain on your parade, but laptops now sell much more units than desktops. Even at home, people don't want desktops anymore. I haven't used a desktop in I don't know how many years, the laptop is just more convenient (can sit at a desk, bring it downstairs, etc..).

A tablet or smartphone won't change that, people won't go back to desktops now that they've had a taste of laptops.
Call me when I can buy a laptop with 43 TB of DAS ....

... I won't stay awake waiting for the call.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 03:38 AM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
My laptop has both a standard mechanical keyboard and a mouse. Upgrades ? I just change the whole laptop when it needs "upgrading".



Sure, you can't discuss people's preferences, but the problem is you can discuss industry numbers and desktop sales are falling behind laptop sales, that's the unfortunate truth for people that still prefer desktops.

In a corporate setting, where I work (20k employees), we're mostly moving away from desktops. We use laptops with docking stations instead. My desk has 2 Full HD monitors hooked up to my docking station, all powered by my small 12" HP Elitebook.

Source :
2008 - Notebook Sales Outpace Desktop Sales
2008? Really? Times have changed. Laptops were the only choice consumers had for mobility. Here are more recent numbers
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/24/...on-in-revenue/

Apple is selling more than 10x as much iOS devices as laptops. Its 10 to 1. And even windows 8 is a huge failure. Laptops are only serving the niche by now. Either everyone already has a laptop by now and won't be upgrading for the next few decades. Or they have replaced their laptops with more mobile and user friendlier tablets and smartphones.

Laptops are dead. Not just netbooks.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 03:47 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by twiggy0 View Post
Steve called it.
I could say I also called the death of Job's himself, oh wait...yea no, it's common sense. Everything must end at some point regardless.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 03:50 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Call me when I can buy a laptop with 43 TB of DAS ....

... I won't stay awake waiting for the call.
And that changes my point... how exactly ?

Are you denying that laptops have overtaken desktop sales and desktop sales are on a decline because ... hum... of 43 TB of DAS ?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by surjavarman View Post
2008? Really? Times have changed. Laptops were the only choice consumers had for mobility. Here are more recent numbers
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/24/...on-in-revenue/

Apple is selling more than 10x as much iOS devices as laptops. Its 10 to 1. And even windows 8 is a huge failure. Laptops are only serving the niche by now. Either everyone already has a laptop by now and won't be upgrading for the next few decades. Or they have replaced their laptops with more mobile and user friendlier tablets and smartphones.

Laptops are dead. Not just netbooks.
Hum... have you seen desktop numbers ? Your article has nothing to do with the point we were discussing, nor mine. Mine is about desktop vs laptop sales. Laptops are far from dead, and are still a growing segment. Desktop are on the decline.

Throwing in mobile devices muddies the waters, but doesn't change the original point. You said desktops were making a come back, you have yet to prove that point. People still aren't buying desktops.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 04:10 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by HishamAkhtar View Post
Wow.

Apple literally KILLED a category.
Why are you crediting apple with this? They didn't kill anything. The market killed it, apple simply produced products that people want, along with many other companies like god forgive for saying it on this forum, Samsung.

Apple may control millions of people by locking them into proprietary software and hardware, but they don't kill markets. Typical ego enthusiastic apple fan, get off your high horse.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by surjavarman View Post
2008? Really? Times have changed. Laptops were the only choice consumers had for mobility. Here are more recent numbers
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/24/...on-in-revenue/

Apple is selling more than 10x as much iOS devices as laptops. Its 10 to 1. And even windows 8 is a huge failure. Laptops are only serving the niche by now. Either everyone already has a laptop by now and won't be upgrading for the next few decades. Or they have replaced their laptops with more mobile and user friendlier tablets and smartphones.

Laptops are dead. Not just netbooks.
Hahaha, what do you expect every corporate office to have all there workers type things up and work on small little touch screens?

Just to further the ridiculousness of your claims, iOS has no chance of really replicating productivity and versatility of the standard laptop/desktop
OS. Apple markets it as a media consuming tool, and they lock it down to keep it as such. So until apple stops focusing on media and useless other things, and they actually put some useful software on their mobile devices what you predict will never happen.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinIllini View Post
The Microsoft Surface provides all the functionality you're describing, and it doubles as a tablet.

Apple sold more iPad minis in a month than all the sold netbooks combined in a quarter. netbooks are deader than dead. Not fanboyish, just truth.
I really don't get it, netbooks are meant for portable productivity, ipads and any tablet for that matter is meant for portable media consumption, and the occasional simple task. Apples and oranges if you ask me.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinIllini View Post
The Microsoft Surface provides all the functionality you're describing, and it doubles as a tablet.

Apple sold more iPad minis in a month than all the sold netbooks combined in a quarter. netbooks are deader than dead. Not fanboyish, just truth.
I really don't get it, netbooks are meant for portable productivity, ipads and any tablet for that matter is meant for portable media consumption, and the occasional simple task. Apples and oranges if you ask me.

But I forgot i'm on an apple forum where users are okay with sacrificing performance for a product that is 2mm thinner.

----------

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Originally Posted by driceman View Post
Steve is smiling somewhere.
No, he's dead; sorry.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 06:57 AM   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surjavarman View Post

Laptops are dead. Not just netbooks.
Did you write "Laptops are dead" with a straight face?

You couldn't be further from the truth.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 10:01 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
And that changes my point... how exactly ?
I've had a "taste" of laptops, but my workstation can do things that a laptop can't even begin to tackle.

This article How tablets are eating the PC's future but might save the desktop computer is relevant....
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 10:03 AM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
I've had a "taste" of laptops, but my workstation can do things that a laptop can't even begin to tackle.
Again Aiden, what are you not getting about the discussion and the point I was making ? Your personal preference is fine, but it is not indicative of industry trends at all.

Try to follow here. Desktop sales are on the decline and laptop sales are still growing. Laptops passed desktops for units sold back in 2008. The trend is not getting reversed by tablets.

Do you have something to contribute other than personal anecdote ?
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 10:10 AM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Try to follow here. Desktop sales are on the decline and laptop sales are still growing. Laptops passed desktops for units sold back in 2008. The trend is not getting reversed by tablets.

Do you have something to contribute other than personal anecdote ?
See the link I added - it predicts that tablets will eat into laptop sales.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 10:19 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
See the link I added - it predicts that tablets will eat into laptop sales.
This graphic from your article more than supports my point :

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Old Jan 7, 2013, 10:54 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Call me when I can buy a laptop with 43 TB of DAS
I would agree with you about the workstation, but these systems are becoming more and more niche. For those that have to move serious bits the workstation will be king, but for the laymen, it's a done deal. Even now that on the Mac OSX side, Apple has dramatically crippled the 21.5" iMac, I see the trend to be true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by surjavarman View Post
...windows 8 is a huge failure. Laptops are only serving the niche by now. Either everyone already has a laptop by now and won't be upgrading for the next few decades. Or they have replaced their laptops with more mobile and user friendlier tablets and smartphones.
No on just about everything you've mentioned. Especially the windows 8 being a failure, nobody replacing a laptop for a few decades, and people replacing laptops with tablets and smartphone . . . . . yeah, everything.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 11:15 AM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
This graphic from your article more than supports my point :

Image
Take another look at that graphic - it's comparing different forecasts, not actual sales.


How about

Quote:
Bambridge noted that during the holiday season, sales of laptops plunged 20 percent or more in Western Europe while tablet sales grew more than 100 percent.

http://www.siliconvalley.com/ces/ci_...ech-sales-fell
I'm not arguing that laptops aren't popular, just that your statement that "people won't go back to desktops now that they've had a taste of laptops" isn't quite true - in spite of your personal anecdote that "I haven't used a desktop in I don't know how many years".
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 11:20 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
"Bambridge noted that during the holiday season, sales of laptops plunged 20 percent or more in Western Europe while tablet sales grew more than 100 percent."
My only (obvious) comment is that one doesn't indicate the decline of the other. Laptop sales can decline during the holiday season for many reasons. And just because more tablets are being bought doesn't mean they are displacing laptop purchases. I am sure some are, for sure. But there could be a plethora of reasons why laptop sales were down.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 11:58 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by Exio View Post
I really don't get it, netbooks are meant for portable productivity, ipads and any tablet for that matter is meant for portable media consumption, and the occasional simple task. Apples and oranges if you ask me.
I always thought netbooks were too underpowered for to be used for productivity. I think Jobs had it right when he said the only advantage of Netbooks were they were cheap. To most people, they were nothing more than portable internet devices, which is why tablets easily wiped them out.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 12:05 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by MagnusVonMagnum View Post
Seeing as you are calling a two line reply a "rant" and that my reply was accurate, I'd say your problems are much bigger than not just liking Netbooks. My netbook's built-in keyboard has full sized keys and a mouse or any USB keyboard is just a plug away. iOS can use bluetooth keyboards, but it's not designed for mice and it cannot run OSX software (only iOS apps) and it costs twice as much baseline. And then there's the 32GB maximum storage versus up to 1TB internal on the Netbook plus 2GB of ram, the option to use Ethernet or 802.11N network connections and two monitors at the same time with the video-out port (plus built-in screen) and not just mirroring like Airplay. And it cost me all of $300 (vs $600+ for an iPad).

How you can even think of that as not logical leads me to conclude you are simply trolling.
I simply asked what netbook has a full sized keyboard. You responded with a rant about tablet usage. Now, 2 of them. I have never seen a netbook with a full-sized keyboard (and no, I'm not talking about 10 key area), so I asked. Some of them have "full-sized" keys, by some definitions, but they are too close together to make it a " full-size keyboard". And yes, I have the same problem with tablet keyboards. Before you go putting MORE stupid words in my mouth.

As for logic, responding to a question about built-in parts by saying you can plug one in hardly computes to me. But, whatever your brain calls logic is fine for you. Don't call me a troll for a simple question. If you want to put words in my mouth, do it to yourself, not in public.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 01:21 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Take another look at that graphic - it's comparing different forecasts, not actual sales.
Yes, the 2015-2016 figures kind of give that away. It still supports my point. Industry forecasts show that the desktop is not making a comeback and that while Tablets will eat into laptops a bit, it won't be enough to bring desktops back to laptop level sales.

Look at that graphic again. The Forecasts show that even in 2016, laptops will acount for double if not triple the sales of desktop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
I'm not arguing that laptops aren't popular, just that your statement that "people won't go back to desktops now that they've had a taste of laptops" isn't quite true - in spite of your personal anecdote that "I haven't used a desktop in I don't know how many years".
Yep even your own data shows the trends that my "anecdotal" evidence is quite true. Current industry sales figures and projected trends all point to that conclusion.

Maybe you need to review the material that's been posted up to now, it quite supports my position. Desktops are not making a comeback. That doesn't mean they're going away completely, let's not be all "Black and White". It just means that laptops will remain the top selling personal computers in the desktop/laptop segment.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
My only (obvious) comment is that one doesn't indicate the decline of the other. Laptop sales can decline during the holiday season for many reasons. And just because more tablets are being bought doesn't mean they are displacing laptop purchases. I am sure some are, for sure. But there could be a plethora of reasons why laptop sales were down.
And laptop sales being down doesn't mean desktop sales were replacing them, nor that desktop sales weren't also down or that even being up, they would've caught back to laptop sales.

Without hard numbers, it's just a throwaway comment for the press. Show us numbers.

For now, the numbers I have provided show quite the contrary. Desktops are not going to overtake laptops now they've fallen behind.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAT View Post
I simply asked what netbook has a full sized keyboard. You responded with a rant about tablet usage.
I will back up your assesement of his posts, having suffered the same thing in a discussion about Unix with him.

I kept pointing him to the OpenGroup and to the history of the AT&T codebase, he kept writing up long off topic rants to tell me what Unix was. I gave him links, documentation, from 1st party sources, he simply brushed them aside with rants.

I finally just moved him to ignore.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 04:17 PM   #319
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not true

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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Yep even your own data shows the trends that my "anecdotal" evidence is quite true.
If you had said "many people" your message would have been OK.

You said "people", so one counter-example proves your claim false.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 04:45 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by JAT View Post
I simply asked what netbook has a full sized keyboard.
My original point was meant to be that it had a full fledged (i.e. actual) keyboard with full sized keys, not really a "full sized" one meaning "with numeric keypad" or apparently gauging by this reply you seem to really want a certain measured spacing between the keys (it's so hard to tell when you cannot stop yourself from posting sarcastic, nasty or obnoxious comments at the same time as you attempt to communicate). When it seemed apparent you wanted to mean a full blown home computer sized keyboard, I simply pointed out you can plug one in (since obviously no netbook or even most notebooks have anything approaching desktop sized keyboards on them. At best they have full sized keys. Apple has taken to use different type keys entirely on their newer computers, but ALL are preferable to a "virtual" keyboard like an iPad has, in my opinion.

Quote:
You responded with a rant about tablet usage.
Do you even know what a "rant" is? Two sentences are not a "RANT" in any part of the known Universe and thus how else can I take your post but to be trolling? Re-read your reply and see it for what it is. It's downright obnoxious and I'm not the only one to say so.

As for tablet usage, this thread is about tablets putting Netbooks out of business and hence my comments in the thread that you chose to reply to.

I admit I have not measured the spacing of the keys on my Netbook to see if they comply with your definition of "full size" but they do appear to be quite similar at a glance to the relative dimensions as my Macbook Pro so I can either conclude that my Macbook Pro 15" notebook doesn't have a full sized keyboard either or that you are simply too picky about using notebook keyboards. No, they aren't spaced exactly like an external keyboard. But neither are they reduced sized keys that I find hard to type on.

Quote:
As for logic, responding to a question about built-in parts by saying you can plug one in hardly computes to me. But, whatever your brain calls logic is fine for you. Don't call me a troll for a simple question. If you want to put words in my mouth, do it to yourself, not in public.
How would you reply to someone using sarcastic, obnoxious, insulting language? Oh that's right. You are the one perpetuating it. Use whatever words you like. It doesn't change your attitude on here.

And yes, it does matter to me that I can plug a mouse and external keyboard into my Netbook since Apple doesn't afford me such a luxury on my iOS devices (save bluetooth on newer ones; my older 1st gen iPod Touch has no such option).

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
I will back up your assesement of his posts, having suffered the same thing in a discussion about Unix with him.
I don't recall the particulars too well nor do I wish to look them up, but it seems you were arguing endlessly that OSX wasn't "UNIX" despite its Open Group certification as such and despite the history (that Dennis Ritchie refers to as "genetic") of UNIX before AT&T and BSD split off from the Bell Labs code.

Dennis Ritchie (one of the creators of the original UNIX) has three categories of UNIX and OSX meets TWO of the three ("Genetic UNIX" since it's underpinnings are from BSD which was based on the original Bell Labs code even if since modified or replaced and also "Certified/Branded" UNIX because it's OpenGroup certified (at least for 10.5 10.6 and 10.8; they apparently didn't bother to certify Lion for reasons unknown); the third category is "functional" and that's every "unix-like" thing out there). Mac OSX is the only BSD-based code to be certified, but that doesn't change the fact is IS now certified to be Single UNIX System 3 compliant. Everything I just said is a 100% verifiable FACT and I can post any number of references if you need/want them, but they're not hard to find. But you kept insisting that OSX is NOT UNIX when it IS. You were flat out WRONG by every possible definition there is for the above reasons. You will NEVER admit you're wrong because you are incapable of it.

And that is your entire problem and the reason you consistently got -30 or less ratings in the days of negative voting because you are constantly behaving in an obnoxious, insulting and generally overbearing manner in nearly every post you make. One cannot have a proper conversation with someone like that as it ends in either long protracted arguments that never cease (since you MUST have the last word even when you're dead wrong) or it ends with you putting me on ignore and declaring to everyone around you that you simply CANNOT talk to such an ignorant person as myself even when you were wrong from day one on the topic.

Seeing as I am supposedly on your ignore (amazing how you keep seeing my posts to respond to them, though), you will supposedly not read this. Oh well. But perhaps it will enlighten all those frustrated with trying to talk any sense to you in any number of threads where I see your endless talking down to people to "educate the ignorant" or "dare to tell them they're wrong" or whatever it is you wish to call your apparent need to talk down to people.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 05:22 PM   #321
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Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Call me when I can buy a laptop with 43 TB of DAS ....

: picture :
My question is why do you have a 200GB drive for Netflix?
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 05:34 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
If you had said "many people" your message would have been OK.

You said "people", so one counter-example proves your claim false.
How do you figure "people" to mean all and not many ?

"People" denotes a plurarity, not an absolute all encompassing group.
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 05:49 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
My question is why do you have a 200GB drive for Netflix?
Rip space - my husband and I "time shift" BDs and DVDs to watch according to our whims. I rip onto a local drive before moving it to the RAID-5 storage on the media server.

After watching, the time-shifted ISOs are deleted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
How do you figure "people" to mean all and not many ?

"People" denotes a plurarity, not an absolute all encompassing group.
It can mean both, and you failed to qualify which meaning that you intended. KnightWRX fail.

[resist the temptation to make a snarky comment about "what is a plurarity", since we all make typos]
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Old Jan 7, 2013, 05:56 PM   #324
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 06:16 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
Rip space - my husband and I "time shift" BDs and DVDs to watch according to our whims. I rip onto a local drive before moving it to the RAID-5 storage on the media server.

After watching, the time-shifted ISOs are deleted.
Man, and here you had me thinking you found a way to stream Netflix off to a hard drive.

I'm so disappointed.
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