2012-2013 NFL Football Thread

[iLog.Genius]

Originally Posted by 63dot

If what you say is true, then the AFC has turned a corner which we sorely need.

Nothing makes this sport more fun than when both conferences have great teams which can be said was the case in the 1970s to some degree with Vikes and Cowboys on one side and Steelers and Raiders on other. Those were great times.

I am with ESPN on this who still think, overall, that the NFC has the better players even though the AFC has the legends of Brady and Manning but one player, even them, don't make up a whole team and like they all say, "Defense wins football games".

Definitely. I think there's much more parity this season than there's ever been.

I too agree that the talent level goes to the NFC. While I did mention Manning and Brady as the reasons why the AFC should be favoured to win, they're both nearing the end of their careers. Everything that made the AFC dominant in recent years is getting up there in age. Ravens and Steelers defense. Of course Manning and Brady.

Switching to the NFC. You have Russell Wilson, RG3, both who show a extremely bright future. Megatron, AP. Falcons as a team basically in their primes with Matt Ryan, Julio Jones, Roddy White. Heck, even the Rams who went on to achieve a greater season that even the most optimistic fan expected. Of course you have some young stars like Luck and A.J. Green in the AFC but I just think the NFC has more younger talent. Outside from the current AFC playoff teams, I can't see much going into the future from their play this season.

[macworkerbee]

I'm a diehard Packers fan. I want the Seachickens to play us at Lambeau for the NFC championship. After the "Fail Mary" earlier this year that game would have drama, revenge and karma all rolled into one

I think the Broncos will represent the AFC in the Superbowl. They have a complete team but don't seem to be getting a huge amount of buzz.

[MacDawg]

Looking forward to hosting the Seahawks in the Dome
Should be a great game with a lot of excitement and big plays on both sides
Once again the Falcons draw the hottest team... time to rise up

[iLog.Genius]

Originally Posted by MacDawg

Looking forward to hosting the Seahawks in the Dome
Should be a great game with a lot of excitement and big plays on both sides
Once again the Falcons draw the hottest team... time to rise up

Agree. If there's ever a time where Matt Ryan needs to step up and really prove himself as becoming an elite QB, this is it. The Falcons have the pieces of a complete team so there should be no excuses to not beat the Seahawks.

But should the Seahawks win, it's going to be one hell of a NFC championship game. If SEA plays SF, you know it's going to be a totally different game; SF isn't going to get blown out again. If they play GB, you know GB is going to come out and play with fire for that fail mary play.

[jessica.]

Originally Posted by ucfgrad93

And I thought only Colorado and Oregon legalized pot. Keep enjoying whatever it is you are smoking.

He can get it easy in CA with a medical card and a medical card is easier to get than a driver's license.


I'm bummed about the Redskins but looking forward to the Falcons being beat down by the Seahawks.

[grapes911]

Originally Posted by iLog.Genius

Agree. If there's ever a time where Matt Ryan needs to step up and really prove himself as becoming an elite QB, this is it. The Falcons have the pieces of a complete team so there should be no excuses to not beat the Seahawks.

There is the game where Ryan can formally earn his nickname of Matty Ice. He's been very good all year but he needs to step up in the playoffs. 13-3 and a bye means nothing if you get bounced. I think it going to be a great game.

[63dot]

Originally Posted by iLog.Genius

Definitely. I think there's much more parity this season than there's ever been.

I too agree that the talent level goes to the NFC. While I did mention Manning and Brady as the reasons why the AFC should be favoured to win, they're both nearing the end of their careers. Everything that made the AFC dominant in recent years is getting up there in age. Ravens and Steelers defense. Of course Manning and Brady.

Switching to the NFC. You have Russell Wilson, RG3, both who show a extremely bright future. Megatron, AP. Falcons as a team basically in their primes with Matt Ryan, Julio Jones, Roddy White. Heck, even the Rams who went on to achieve a greater season that even the most optimistic fan expected. Of course you have some young stars like Luck and A.J. Green in the AFC but I just think the NFC has more younger talent. Outside from the current AFC playoff teams, I can't see much going into the future from their play this season.

That's what I have been trying to say but many fly by night fans really think it's always all about the QB. That would be like saying that a baseball team has to win the World Series because they have Barry Bonds or Ichiro hitting for them but totally ignoring who is on the mound or how the fielders can work as a team.

It's unusual for let's say, a CPA or plumber, to quit a lifetime's chosen career in their late thirties, but so many think that being an NFL player is just another job. But it's no shock that so many who know the sport think that P Manning and Brady are nearing their end. I don't expect a Favre or DeBerg type of longevity with either one as I don't expect any QB to be starting for a team at 38, 39, or 40.

Football is just as much a business and while playing good in a season right now, they also have to shore up their future and especially Manning, who is basically a short term fix and hope for this year and maybe next. Injuries are cumulative and healing time increases with age, so after Manning and Brady, I too agree that AFC may not have that much substance after they are gone or too old to matter.

Even though Favre did well at times in later career, he would have probably left a better impression and legacy had he retired after the first time he considered leaving in 2006. There was this unused guy by the name of Aaron Rodgers ready to go and the team may have passed on the chance of yet another Super Bowl (or more) by keeping Favre past age 35 or 36. More with football than almost anything else, it's unforgiving and it's all about using young, strong, and uninjured talent. Hindsight is 20/20 but don't have a Favre out there at 90% percent, even if that 90% percent is better than most at 100% percent when you can do better. Maybe we didn't know about Rodgers, but I am sure somebody in GB's organization wanted him to hit the ground running a lot sooner. As it turns out among mid-carrier QBs, Rodgers in 8th season is the best for his position, exactly average age of Super Bowl winning QB, and if he holds up rest of career and say conservatively it's another five full years banning serious injury, can retire with best QB rating of all time.

RGIII is young but with his risky/gutsy play and greater chance of injuries, he could be gone by age 30 and there's no guarantee he will even make it in NFL as old as Rodgers. We have seen too many rookie and second or third year phenoms just to get a few unmemorable injuries and never quite get back to where they were (or simply never get the proper supporting cast) when everybody thought they were the next big thing. Football is that unforgiving but for fans it makes it a lot of fun. You never know which team will be great from year to year.

[Peace]

I think it's going to be Denver for the Super Bowl win.

Peyton with the Colts= Lots of winning. Peyton leaves= lots of losses.
Peyton with Denver= Lots of winning. Denver before Peyton= lots of losses.


And please people. Don't blame Seattle for that fail mary ..It was the "officials" that made the call.

[macworkerbee]

Originally Posted by Peace

I think it's going to be Denver for the Super Bowl win.

Peyton with the Colts= Lots of winning. Peyton leaves= lots of losses.
Peyton with Denver= Lots of winning. Denver before Peyton= lots of losses.


And please people. Don't blame Seattle for that fail mary ..It was the "officials" that made the call.

I'm not so concerned with assigning blame for the call the "officials" made. I think all can agree that was a terrible decision. What I think the Packers will get fired up about is how classless the Seahawk players and coaches were when talking about what happened on that play. Especially the flat out lie that there was blatant pass interference (he pushed the receiver down).

TACKLING FUEL!

[Moyank24]

Originally Posted by Peace

I think it's going to be Denver for the Super Bowl win.

Peyton with the Colts= Lots of winning. Peyton leaves= lots of losses.
Peyton with Denver= Lots of winning. Denver before Peyton= lots of losses.


And please people. Don't blame Seattle for that fail mary ..It was the "officials" that made the call.

To be fair, Denver was a playoff team last year. With Tim Tebow as its quarterback. They had a solid defense and some decent offensive weapons - part of the reason, I'm sure, why Peyton chose Denver over his other options.

[63dot]

Originally Posted by Peace

I think it's going to be Denver for the Super Bowl win.

Peyton with the Colts= Lots of winning. Peyton leaves= lots of losses.
Peyton with Denver= Lots of winning. Denver before Peyton= lots of losses.

With those facts and a Super Bowl win this year or before he retires (and all the records he holds in his career), and at age 36, there will be a lot of people saying he is the greatest and most important quarterback who ever suited up to play. If he plays out his career with great numbers and another Super Bowl win (maybe this one), and then the post-Peyton Broncos fail miserably with its other key players, then Peyton is probably the greatest QB ever, and the closest thing to a one man team anybody has ever seen.

I too will give him lone title to those honors if he can go against any of the four great, remaining NFC teams and blow them out in the Super Bowl. I just don't see it happening but another Super Bowl win would be more in context with his amazing regular season stats throughout his career. It would also be fun to see Denver celebrate an over the hill quarterback seeing one or two more titles before being sent out to pasture.

One day, in a few years, it would be fitting to see both Elway and Peyton Manning be a part of the Broncos organization in leadership roles. Other than my team, I do have a part of me who has some nostalgia from previous decades and would like to see Brady or Manning get just one more for the recordbooks. Again, seeing Ray Lewis with the Lombardi trophy above his head one more time would be priceless but I doubt in any universe he could get the MVP unless he played the game of his life.

If Peyton wins the Super Bowl, again, I will be cringing over the fact that the 49ers almost signed him, just like they almost signed Aaron Rodgers. Other than that we have done really well in the last two years without a Brady, Manning, Brees, or Rodgers type of quarterback. At a certain point last year, Alex Smith was among the worst of the starters in certain stats yet presided what was to eventually be a 13-3 team. Kaepernick, like it or not, is the starter and he is just above average overall yet we still got the bye while he was starter over Smith. Can San Francisco go all the way without any real stars with their football team the way they did with their 2012 Giants baseball team? More than anything, I pray for Rodgers and his crazy QB rating to lay an egg and from time to time he does.

[Peace]

Originally Posted by Moyank24

To be fair, Denver was a playoff team last year. With Tim Tebow as its quarterback. They had a solid defense and some decent offensive weapons - part of the reason, I'm sure, why Peyton chose Denver over his other options.

My bad. I forgot Denver was in the playoffs last year.

I was checking out ESPN's voting on the Seahawks-Falcons game and thought this was kind of funny. Seems the only people that think Atlanta has anything going for them all live in Georgia. Let it be known that I think Atlanta will stomp on my team though.

[Queen of Spades]

Originally Posted by 63dot

With those facts and a Super Bowl win this year or before he retires (and all the records he holds in his career), and at age 36, there will be a lot of people saying he is the greatest and most important quarterback who ever suited up to play. If he plays out his career with great numbers and another Super Bowl win (maybe this one), and then the post-Peyton Broncos fail miserably with its other key players, then Peyton is probably the greatest QB ever, and the closest thing to a one man team anybody has ever seen.

Disagree. I don't think he's above Brady, and yes, I may be entirely biased. I don't have the time right now to go through and pull out all the stats, but those Colts teams had plenty of talent. Plenty. Dwight Freeney, Edgerrin James, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Jeff Saturday, Robert Mathis, Dallas Clark, etc. And those are literally the first names off of the top of my head. Even with Manning in 2011, that Indianapolis team would not have been SB worthy because the roster was aging and had holes. They may have lost their will to fight without him, but they were going to suck with him, too.

I'm not saying Manning isn't in the discussion for the GOAT, but this idea that he was the difference between those Colts teams being great and sucking is absurd. Those teams were stacked.

And as Moyank said, let's not forget that the Broncos defense was a force last year. So much so that they won in the playoffs with Tebow's mediocrity. Easy to see why Manning chose them.

[grapes911]

^ The Patriot defense was pretty good during those early Brady Super Bowls. I put Manning, Brady, and Montana at the top of the list. The order doesn't matter.

[Peace]

Originally Posted by grapes911

^ The Patriot defense was pretty good during those early Brady Super Bowls. I put Manning, Brady, and Montana at the top of the list. The order doesn't matter.

The camera work was pretty good during those early Brady games also.

[grapes911]

Originally Posted by Peace

The camera work was pretty good during those early Brady games also.

I still think they cheated my Eagles out of Super Bowl XXXIX.

[zioxide]

When did this place turn in to ESPN with the non-stop Manning ball washing?

The only playoff team that Denver beat was the Ravens. The rest of their schedule was a cake walk.

I wouldn't even be surprised if the Ravens beat them this weekend. Peyton is notorious for coming out and laying an egg in big games.

Originally Posted by Queen of Spades

And as Moyank said, let's not forget that the Broncos defense was a force last year. So much so that they won in the playoffs with Tebow's mediocrity. Easy to see why Manning chose them.

Yeah, that defense was a big enough force to win a playoff game with Tebow and then come to Foxboro and get torched by Brady & co for 45 points.

Last 3 times the Patriots have played Denver, Brady & the Pats offense put up 41, 45, and 31 points respectively. That defense hasn't changed.


But I'm fine with the Patriots being the underdog. They play better with the "us against the world" mentality. (thanks to Mr. Rodney Harrison ) The results on the field will speak for themselves.

[iLog.Genius]

Originally Posted by Queen of Spades

Colts teams had plenty of talent. Plenty. Dwight Freeney, Edgerrin James, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Jeff Saturday, Robert Mathis, Dallas Clark, etc. And those are literally the first names off of the top of my head.

I'm not saying Manning isn't in the discussion for the GOAT, but this idea that he was the difference between those Colts teams being great and sucking is absurd. Those teams were stacked.

They were stacked on offense, yes. On defense? Nope. Yes they had Freeney and Mathis but outside of those two who else was there? Gary Brackett? Cato June? These guys were good players but nothing for one to say they were stacked. You could maybe argue Bob Sanders but he was always injured. Colts had individual players on defense which was good enough to do what they needed to do when the offense took over games. The Patriots, while lacking in big names on defense, were a strong unit overall mainly because they had the right schemes given the circumstances.

Originally Posted by zioxide

I wouldn't even be surprised if the Ravens beat them this weekend. Peyton is notorious for coming out and laying an egg in big games.

I just hope that Manning continues what he does but understand that he doesn't have to carry the team and not force balls. The defense is more than capable of stopping teams. I'm not saying DEN is going to completely shut down teams but this unit is better than what the Colts had when Manning was there.

[ucfgrad93]

Originally Posted by Queen of Spades

And as Moyank said, let's not forget that the Broncos defense was a force last year. So much so that they won in the playoffs with Tebow's mediocrity. Easy to see why Manning chose them.

In all fairness, Tebow had a great game against the Steelers. He passed for 316 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 0 FUM. Granted, during the rest of the year, he was mediocre at best.

While our defense last year was much improved they were still middle of the pack. They were ranked 20th, which was a huge improvement compared to being ranked 32nd in 2010. This year, however, our defense is ranked 2nd in the league. I think with our improved defense and what Peyton brings, I think the Broncos have a decent chance of winning the Super Bowl. And apparently, Las Vegas agrees with me.

Anywho, I'll be out in the 20 degree weather this Saturday cheering on the Broncos as I celebrate my birthday with my family.

[Queen of Spades]

Originally Posted by iLog.Genius

They were stacked on offense, yes. On defense? Nope. Yes they had Freeney and Mathis but outside of those two who else was there? Gary Brackett? Cato June? These guys were good players but nothing for one to say they were stacked. You could maybe argue Bob Sanders but he was always injured. Colts had individual players on defense which was good enough to do what they needed to do when the offense took over games. The Patriots, while lacking in big names on defense, were a strong unit overall mainly because they had the right schemes given the circumstances.

How many teams have two completely studly pass rushers? Come on. Manning is great, but those Colts teams were very talented, including defensively. And I don't remember a time when Manning wasn't throwing to above average receivers.

[bigjnyc]

Originally Posted by 63dot

Unless Den or NE show us something next week, I don't see anybody in the AFC within spitting distance of the Lombardi Trophy. I would like to see perhaps the last time Manning and Brady go against each other if both make it to AFC championships. If Baltimore goes to the Super Bowl it will be fun to see what is Ray Lewis' last run in the playoffs.

The four teams in the NFC are solid and have been so for some time. GB should take it in a close one over my SF with Rodgers and the NFL's most dangerous set of wide receivers. If somebody can stop GB and their passing attack now it is the Niners. Seattle looks like they are still on high and can take Atlanta if all goes well. Either Seattle or Atlanta will win the Super Bowl. My pick for third most likely team is a tie between GB who I slightly favor over a Denver or New England. Houston has shown they haven't lost all momentum but I am not sure they can beat NE in NE.

If Seattle does meet SF in the NFC championship, they fill meet a totally different 49ers organization and won't walk away with a blowout. Seattle's QB has put up the best numbers for an NFL beginner but I don't know if he could be SF's defense a second time in a short period. If SF can somehow get past GB and have to meet Seattle, I will be very excited.

I see it the other way around actually, I dont think anyone in the NFC can beat DEN or NE... DEN has been downright dominant for like the last 10 weeks now... and NE's offense is capable of putting up 40+ on any defense when clicking, their suspect defense has even gotten a little better as well. Plus you have the Brady and Manning factor which counts for a lot in any close games. I can't really see any of the NFC teams beating whichever of those 2 comes out of the AFC.

And this is coming from a NY sports fan who absolutely hates hates hates all NE sports teams... So I really hope its DEN.

[MacDawg]

I think a Denver - New England showdown is inevitable and should be a great game

And I also believe the winner of that game is prolly the Superbowl winner
But I felt that way both times the Giants took down the Patriots too

Houston doesn't have the stones to beat the Patriots
And the Ravens have too many issues to deal with Denver's offense and defense

Green Bay is inconsistent and has been all season
San Francisco has been up and down as well
Both teams have shown they can win big or lose big
And the Seattle - GB game was not just about the last play, it was a whole game

Seattle is the hottest team right now
They have an aggressive defense with good DB's
They have the ability to run the ball and make big plays
And they are riding the crest of a wave
Out of the NFC, they are the scariest team to me

But I would be surprised if Seattle could take down Denver or New England in the Superbowl
The experience of Manning and Brady is too much

[63dot]

Originally Posted by grapes911

^ The Patriot defense was pretty good during those early Brady Super Bowls. I put Manning, Brady, and Montana at the top of the list. The order doesn't matter.

I tend to agree with that one.

What's really cool is that right here and now two of those (definitely HoF) are playing right now. Brady in his 3 Super Bowls in 4 years was the best 4th quarter player, perhaps ever. During that time, Manning was also at his height throwing for ridiculous yards compared to competition at the time and was the most reliable passing machine for big yards. The early to mid 2000s were amazing football. To me those two don't shine in the same manner, but they also now have the best support I have seen them with. They are both smarter players and neither has to rely on strong arm or long passes as had been the case in their earlier years.

Brady and Manning came in at the right time when people were starting to question if anybody had that ability to throw laser bullets like Favre or Jim Kelly. In their heyday of early 2000s, you can get up for a bathroom break and Brady or Manning would be 90 yards down the field. Not that it didn't happen with a Kelly, or John Elway, but Brady and Manning took the robo-QB thing to the next level. If somebody had said more than ten years later both would still be around throwing finesse passes and resemble Montana more, I wouldn't have believed it. Both Manning and Brady have remade themselves and in that process have increased their worth in this NFL. To the credit of those two, Montana never had to radically remake himself like those two. For honorable mention, John Elway redid his whole persona and took two Super Bowls back to back in later, much later, years and worked his experience then instead of his arm.

What Montana has that neither Brady nor Manning have is a spotless Super Bowl record, but the greatness factor is made mostly in regular season play and that's why a two time ring holder like Plunkett rarely gets mentioned in same sentence as other two ring winners, or even one ring winners like Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner, and Brett Favre.

[bigjnyc]

Originally Posted by 63dot

That's what I have been trying to say but many fly by night fans really think it's always all about the QB. That would be like saying that a baseball team has to win the World Series because they have Barry Bonds or Ichiro hitting for them but totally ignoring who is on the mound or how the fielders can work as a team.

The last 9 Superbowls have been won by 6 QB's that are considered Elite and at the top of their game. You won't find any rookies or any average QB's on the list:

Eli Manning
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Ben Rothlisberger
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady

[63dot]

Originally Posted by MacDawg

Seattle is the hottest team right now
They have an aggressive defense with good DB's
They have the ability to run the ball and make big plays
And they are riding the crest of a wave
Out of the NFC, they are the scariest team to me

But I would be surprised if Seattle could take down Denver or New England in the Superbowl
The experience of Manning and Brady is too much

Yes, Seattle is scariest NFC team to me because like most, we didn't see them coming. And yes, they have talent, too on top of momentum and that's very hard to stop. If any wild card team can do it, it's them and it wouldn't be to anybody's surprise.

Seattle is new at being this hot but if the defense they used to dismantle SF goes to SB, nobody in AFC stands a chance lest one missed the Seattle-SF blowout game.

Experience loses as much as it wins in Super Bowl, otherwise we wouldn't have Favre, P Manning, and Brady as big game losers. I think what entire team who is cresting is the one who has the better chance at the Super Bowl.

----------

Originally Posted by bigjnyc

The last 9 Superbowls have been won by 6 QB's that are considered Elite and at the top of their game. You won't find any rookies or any average QB's on the list:

Eli Manning
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Ben Rothlisberger
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady

But put any one of those six in the driver's seat in KC or Cleveland, then what do you have? Football is a team sport.