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Old Dec 21, 2012, 12:01 PM   #26
roberto.caldas
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updates???

Does anyone have any news on this problem?
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 12:42 PM   #27
bill-p
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For Bootcamp, set display resolution to native (2880 x 1800), set DPI scaling to 199%, make sure you have disabled/unchecked "Windows XP scaling mode", and set the cursor to "Very Large".

And that's it. It works on either Windows 7 or Windows 8.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 12:57 PM   #28
Freyqq
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Don't set it at 1440x900. Instead, set it at native resolution and turn up the dpi settings to 150%-200%. DPI settings are basically windows' version of HiDPI.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:43 PM   #29
mrbigglessworth
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How are you guys getting 1440*900 in Windows? In my resolution selection I go from 1600*900 or the next selection of 1366*768.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 04:53 PM   #30
bill-p
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Originally Posted by mrbigglessworth View Post
How are you guys getting 1440*900 in Windows? In my resolution selection I go from 1600*900 or the next selection of 1366*768.
You have to add it as a custom resolution via nVidia Control Panel. It's not there by default because the display doesn't include 1440 x 900 as a recognizable resolution. And it's not standard like 1366 x 768 or 1680 x 1050.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 08:50 AM   #31
roberto.caldas
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I'm interested in running games at 1440x900 without blurriness, is there any news on this pixel doubling feature?
Can we ask NVidia for this? Where? Let's make a mass request.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 10:17 AM   #32
Ploki
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Originally Posted by roberto.caldas View Post
I'm interested in running games at 1440x900 without blurriness, is there any news on this pixel doubling feature?
Can we ask NVidia for this? Where? Let's make a mass request.
Run the game at 2880*1800 ?!
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 10:43 AM   #33
roberto.caldas
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Originally Posted by Ploki View Post
Run the game at 2880*1800 ?!
Wow, how didn't I think of this before???! :P

Unfortunately, I cannot run Battlefield 3 at this resolution.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 11:14 AM   #34
Ploki
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Originally Posted by roberto.caldas View Post
Wow, how didn't I think of this before???! :P

Unfortunately, I cannot run Battlefield 3 at this resolution.
I doubt nVidia can do anything about that though. It's up to game developers, they don't depend on OS for scaling.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 02:59 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roberto.caldas View Post
I'm interested in running games at 1440x900 without blurriness, is there any news on this pixel doubling feature?
Can we ask NVidia for this? Where? Let's make a mass request.
I so want this too. Playing games in OSX at 1440x900 looks much better than the same game at 1440x900 under windows.

Im sure I read on the nVidia forums a few months back that they won't be enabling a pixel doubling feature. (I can't find the link now)
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 03:03 PM   #36
Ploki
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Originally Posted by Dyno-Mike View Post
I so want this too. Playing games in OSX at 1440x900 looks much better than the same game at 1440x900 under windows.

Im sure I read on the nVidia forums a few months back that they won't be enabling a pixel doubling feature. (I can't find the link now)
This makes no ****ing sense, you know that right?

edit: withdrawn!

Last edited by Ploki; Jan 9, 2013 at 06:07 AM.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 03:38 PM   #37
dusk007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey Naish View Post
EDIT:
Side by side: http://i50.tinypic.com/210mzrq.jpg

Zoomed in on clock :
Samsung PX2370 at 1920x1080 native - http://i46.tinypic.com/ziqczl.jpg
Macbook Pro Retina display at 1440x900 - http://i45.tinypic.com/igx5dl.jpg

As you can see, at 1440x900 there's still some slight blur, but it's not like a normal panel. It's noticeable, but not as bad as I expected it to be.
Honestly I don't see any blur whatsoever in those pictures. Only one display being lower res. Naturally the text has some sub pixel font smoothing. That can be changed via ClearFont settings. It looks to me as something that is due to the lower res in general not some bad scaling.
Each single pixel I can make out is perfectly sharp.

Are you guys sure you aren't making up a scaling problem when all there is is just a lower resolution which always looks horrible directly compared to a higher res.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 03:54 PM   #38
bill-p
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Originally Posted by dusk007 View Post
Honestly I don't see any blur whatsoever in those pictures. Only one display being lower res. Naturally the text has some sub pixel font smoothing. That can be changed via ClearFont settings. It looks to me as something that is due to the lower res in general not some bad scaling.
Each single pixel I can make out is perfectly sharp.

Are you guys sure you aren't making up a scaling problem when all there is is just a lower resolution which always looks horrible directly compared to a higher res.
It's hard to explain without having you look at two of the displays side by side.

But let's put it this way: 1440 x 900 on a Retina display applies a bilinear filter on top, which causes things to look blurrier compared to a native 1440 x 900 display, which doesn't have any sub-pixel to further "bilinear" its native resolution.

There's a simpler fix to this problem than what people are asking for: just tell nVidia to disable the bilinear filter when scaling display resolution. It'll both increase performance and make things look better.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 05:27 PM   #39
roberto.caldas
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Originally Posted by Ploki View Post
I doubt nVidia can do anything about that though. It's up to game developers, they don't depend on OS for scaling.
I think that is handled by the driver, it doesn't make much sense for the game to do it, it's very low level.

Look at this:
http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/que...ale-resolution

As far as I know bill-p is right.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 04:24 AM   #40
Ploki
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Originally Posted by roberto.caldas View Post
I think that is handled by the driver, it doesn't make much sense for the game to do it, it's very low level.

Look at this:
http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/que...ale-resolution

As far as I know bill-p is right.
Oh, you mean like that?
Still - you were talking about pixel doubling, as far as I understand you mean HiDPI mode? In that case the nvidia driver would have to cheat the game into thinking its running a 2880*1800 and somehow magically upscale UI elements?

Or if you mean pixel doubling what bill-p explains, that four pixels on the retina is exactly one pixel of 1440*900 with no bilinear filtering?
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 05:37 AM   #41
roberto.caldas
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Originally Posted by Ploki View Post
Oh, you mean like that?
Still - you were talking about pixel doubling, as far as I understand you mean HiDPI mode? In that case the nvidia driver would have to cheat the game into thinking its running a 2880*1800 and somehow magically upscale UI elements?

Or if you mean pixel doubling what bill-p explains, that four pixels on the retina is exactly one pixel of 1440*900 with no bilinear filtering?
Second option.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 06:05 AM   #42
Ploki
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Second option.
Ah... Sorry then, misunderstood. Yeah that is purely fault of nVidia.

edit: funny, one would think that additional filtering/pixels would make things look smoother.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:26 PM   #43
WPWoodJr
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Originally Posted by bill-p View Post
For Bootcamp, set display resolution to native (2880 x 1800), set DPI scaling to 199%, make sure you have disabled/unchecked "Windows XP scaling mode", and set the cursor to "Very Large".

And that's it. It works on either Windows 7 or Windows 8.
Why 199% and not 200% ?? I noticed that Parallels set it to 199% in my VM too.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 02:35 PM   #44
bill-p
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Originally Posted by WPWoodJr View Post
Why 199% and not 200% ?? I noticed that Parallels set it to 199% in my VM too.
Because 200% and above scales the cursor improperly.

It's better to use 199% and set the cursor to "Very Large" instead.
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Old Jun 7, 2013, 08:35 AM   #45
keitsi
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Exclamation Petition

Hi,

I created a petition, hopefully we will get enough signatures for NVidia to care :)

Please sign it if you want sharp image with your mbpr at 1440x900 resolution!

http://www.change.org/petitions/nvid...of-gpu-drivers
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 08:36 AM   #46
falcn
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I have a strong gut feeling that it's not nVidia's fault.
Looks like blurring is added by the LCD controller running in non-native resolution.
I doubt it can be re-flashed by the user to make it aware of native/2 resolution.

Anyway, someone need to open a ticket on the Apple bug tracker. They can fix it, either in the next revision of retina laptops, or as a firmware update.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 08:47 AM   #47
bill-p
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Again, people...

It's Windows', or specifically Microsoft's fault, not Apple's or nVidia's fault. Proof: install Windows 8 and you'll have proper scaling.

If you're under Windows 7, you'll have to fiddle with DPI settings, and hope that your favorite application does support higher DPI settings. (note: about 95% of Windows applications don't)
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 08:58 AM   #48
Stetrain
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Originally Posted by falcn View Post
I have a strong gut feeling that it's not nVidia's fault.
Looks like blurring is added by the LCD controller running in non-native resolution.
I doubt it can be re-flashed by the user to make it aware of native/2 resolution.

Anyway, someone need to open a ticket on the Apple bug tracker. They can fix it, either in the next revision of retina laptops, or as a firmware update.
But NVidia could take the 1440x900 image coming from the games and pixel double it to 2880x1800 with no filtering. This would be the image sent to the display and should appear crisp since the display is seeing native resolution data.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill-p View Post
Again, people...

It's Windows', or specifically Microsoft's fault, not Apple's or nVidia's fault. Proof: install Windows 8 and you'll have proper scaling.

If you're under Windows 7, you'll have to fiddle with DPI settings, and hope that your favorite application does support higher DPI settings. (note: about 95% of Windows applications don't)
I think that most of what is being discussed here is what happens when running a full screen game at 1440x900. This is separate from the desktop DPI scaling and it is something that NVidia could theoretically make better.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 09:05 AM   #49
bill-p
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I think that most of what is being discussed here is what happens when running a full screen game at 1440x900. This is separate from the desktop DPI scaling and it is something that NVidia could theoretically make better.
The original discussion was about desktop scaling, though.

Anyway, the reason nVidia wouldn't make it better is because it'll actually degrade performance. The scaling is done via the LCD controller. nVidia is just pushing out a native 1440 x 900 frame to the controller.

If they want to disable the scaling, they would have to output a 2880 x 1800 frame and render every pixel as 4x its size. It adds an extra step to the pipeline.

Apple could theoretically disable the scaling in the controller via a firmware update, but then it'll make all other resolutions in between look bad, and especially since OSX depends on that for scaling down higher retina resolutions (3840 x 2400 for instance), I don't think they'd want to do that.
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Old Jun 30, 2013, 11:50 AM   #50
falcn
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Originally Posted by Stetrain View Post
But NVidia could take the 1440x900 image coming from the games and pixel double it to 2880x1800 with no filtering. This would be the image sent to the display and should appear crisp since the display is seeing native resolution data.
I took a closer look at the issue. It seems like it's nVidia's fault after all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLPBOvrA1xQ
At 0:20 there is an option to switch scaling between "Display" and "GPU".
On a Macbook, GPU scaling is the only option.

The blurring is added during scaling process, so we have our culprit.

I wonder if 13" Retina have the blurring while running at half the native resolution on HD4000?


Quote:
Originally Posted by bill-p View Post
Anyway, the reason nVidia wouldn't make it better is because it'll actually degrade performance. The scaling is done via the LCD controller. nVidia is just pushing out a native 1440 x 900 frame to the controller.
If they want to disable the scaling, they would have to output a 2880 x 1800 frame and render every pixel as 4x its size. It adds an extra step to the pipeline.
If nVidia Control Panel is telling the truth, scaling is already done on the GPU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill-p View Post
Apple could theoretically disable the scaling in the controller via a firmware update, but then it'll make all other resolutions in between look bad, and especially since OSX depends on that for scaling down higher retina resolutions (3840 x 2400 for instance), I don't think they'd want to do that.
All that is done on the GPU. LCD display controller is very specialized piece of hardware, it has nothing to do with HiDPI (Retina) technology on Mac OS X.
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