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Old Jan 7, 2013, 07:46 PM   #151
Solomani
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Flush with over $120 billion in Cash.... I'd assume Apple could afford to hire a couple of part-time MacOSX "game gurus".

A good example would be to hire that one guy who wrote the GamePad Companion app (selling in the Mac App Store). Give him a salary, and tell him to sit down and write a superior Game Controller applet that would also double as a reliable (universal) driver(s) for the Top 10 gamepads/controllers/flightsticks that are marketed for MacOSX.

PS3 Dualshock
Wired Xbox 360
Wireless Xbox 360
Mad Catz
A couple of the best selling Logitech
A couple of popular Saiteks
And maybe something from MacAlly

Really a very focused job description. Apple pays you good salary to sit your butt down and write reliable drivers that will work with the 10 (not too much to ask) top-selling Mac-targeted game controllers. Test the hell out of them. Keep updating them. Then once ready, Apple integrates them into the next free MacOSX update. Apple would integrate them as "invisible" plug-and-play drivers. Gamer plugs in the controller to USB port (or then pairs it for Bluetooth), and MacOSX (Siberian Tiger or whatever) simply recognizes the controller, just as easily as OSX recognizes its own Apple Magic Mouse.

The result is that thousands upon thousands of Mac gamers are much happier. Dozens of top-tier Mac Game Developers (Aspyr, Feral, MacSoft, etc) now much much happier and they have one less thing to worry about when they continue to develop future Mac games. And then maybe, just maybe .... Mac gaming might experience a thriving new golden age (similar to mobile iOS).


But alas! What I propose makes too much sense. And therefore, Apple will ignore any kind of advice or initiative like this.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 02:21 AM   #152
marc11
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Originally Posted by Solomani View Post
Flush with over $120 billion in Cash.... I'd assume Apple could afford to hire a couple of part-time MacOSX "game gurus".

A good example would be to hire that one guy who wrote the GamePad Companion app (selling in the Mac App Store). Give him a salary, and tell him to sit down and write a superior Game Controller applet that would also double as a reliable (universal) driver(s) for the Top 10 gamepads/controllers/flightsticks that are marketed for MacOSX.

PS3 Dualshock
Wired Xbox 360
Wireless Xbox 360
Mad Catz
A couple of the best selling Logitech
A couple of popular Saiteks
And maybe something from MacAlly

Really a very focused job description. Apple pays you good salary to sit your butt down and write reliable drivers that will work with the 10 (not too much to ask) top-selling Mac-targeted game controllers. Test the hell out of them. Keep updating them. Then once ready, Apple integrates them into the next free MacOSX update. Apple would integrate them as "invisible" plug-and-play drivers. Gamer plugs in the controller to USB port (or then pairs it for Bluetooth), and MacOSX (Siberian Tiger or whatever) simply recognizes the controller, just as easily as OSX recognizes its own Apple Magic Mouse.

The result is that thousands upon thousands of Mac gamers are much happier. Dozens of top-tier Mac Game Developers (Aspyr, Feral, MacSoft, etc) now much much happier and they have one less thing to worry about when they continue to develop future Mac games. And then maybe, just maybe .... Mac gaming might experience a thriving new golden age (similar to mobile iOS).


But alas! What I propose makes too much sense. And therefore, Apple will ignore any kind of advice or initiative like this.
A better option is for Apple to design its own controller/driver and allow game developers to map to that controllers driver. I do not see Apple ever wanting to rewrite drivers every time a controll designer changes the button layout or what have you on new devices.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 04:46 AM   #153
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But when I open .command I cant write my password because its a grey box there? And I use the "terminal" for open it?
Second time I open it with "terminal" its was totally empty?
Your password is not displayed when you type for security reasons. Just type it in and press enter.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 04:46 AM   #154
Solomani
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A better option is for Apple to design its own controller/driver and allow game developers to map to that controllers driver. I do not see Apple ever wanting to rewrite drivers every time a controll designer changes the button layout or what have you on new devices.
I agree. Of course Apple, if they were to write the controller drivers, should allow for easy button remapping. That's a given. In fact, that's how it works when you use any Plug-and-Play Windows device. You simply plug in any-branded Windows mouse that follows the P-n-P standard. And then Windows lets you remap whatever the heck the mouse button, the scroller, or the right-click or side-button actions will do. And the ability to remap usually does not require any further 3rd-party drivers. Complex remapping might require additional 3rd-party drivers, however. These things have been taken for granted on the Windows side for years. Then again, this is one example of why Windows totally dominates the PC gaming industry, and Apple is stuck in the Stone Age when it comes to supporting gaming peripherals.

As my post above, Apple has zero excuse now, being they have more surplus cash than most 3rd world nations. They have the money and resources to get this done.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 04:48 AM   #155
edddeduck
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Originally Posted by Pithism View Post
Hi hope someone can help.

I install the drivers and the xbox wired controller lights up with the player 1 color icon. Then i go to controllermate and it doesn't list my device.

Has anyone solved this, or does a new driver need to come out?

Also when i unplug the controller from the mac pro it reboots automatically, is this normal or is their something wrong?

Any assistance would be great.
You should not need to use controller mate for most games if they have built in support, if it does not pick up then thats a problem inside controller mate, I would contract them with details.

Edwin
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 05:06 AM   #156
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I agree. Of course Apple, if they were to write the controller drivers, should allow for easy button remapping. That's a given. In fact, that's how it works when you use any Plug-and-Play Windows device. You simply plug in any-branded Windows mouse that follows the P-n-P standard. And then Windows lets you remap whatever the heck the mouse button, the scroller, or the right-click or side-button actions will do. And the ability to remap usually does not require any further 3rd-party drivers. Complex remapping might require additional 3rd-party drivers, however. These things have been taken for granted on the Windows side for years. Then again, this is one example of why Windows totally dominates the PC gaming industry, and Apple is stuck in the Stone Age when it comes to supporting gaming peripherals.

As my post above, Apple has zero excuse now, being they have more surplus cash than most 3rd world nations. They have the money and resources to get this done.
All plug and play devices send the same data to the Mac as the PC (unless they are X-Input). It would be nice to have fuller support on the Mac but a lot of the issues are due to the lack of drivers for the devices. For example Logitech no longer support Mac with pads and wheels. This means things like ForceFeedback are now missing on the Mac. This limits what you can do on the Mac.

Apple could come up with a framework that manufacturers could then provide definition files for which would save a fair amount of time making sure mappings etc work but that is no silver bullet and still does not solve a number of potential issues.

Many PC games only support the 360 pad now just because it is a lot less work. Here at Feral I designed a plugin system for our games so once a new pad has been defined using a plugin file all Feral games will support this pad (and with the correct mapping). This solution only works for our games (as we wrote it) but the pad support problem is not just "Apple's fault" is a complicated problem with many different parties being involved so a solution when you start looking at the details is tricky.

Edwin
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 06:06 AM   #157
Solomani
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Hi Edwin,

Your input is much appreciated, especially as many of us consider Feral to be a top-tier Mac game developer.

A quick question. With your latest MacOSX action games (e.g. Batman Arkham Asylum), do your games ship with (or optionally installs) the needed Xbox 360 drivers/plugin files? Or does the Mac gamer still have to go to your website and then download said driver?

With a brand new late-2012 iMac, I'm looking forward to treating myself to some great AAA games from Feral and Aspyr.
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 06:39 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Solomani View Post
Hi Edwin,

Your input is much appreciated, especially as many of us consider Feral to be a top-tier Mac game developer.

A quick question. With your latest MacOSX action games (e.g. Batman Arkham Asylum), do your games ship with (or optionally installs) the needed Xbox 360 drivers/plugin files? Or does the Mac gamer still have to go to your website and then download said driver?

With a brand new late-2012 iMac, I'm looking forward to treating myself to some great AAA games from Feral and Aspyr.
We use the third party driver for the 360 which you have to install yourself (it's open source so we don't want to bundle it), we also offer a script that adds many more third party 360 pads to the list of supported pads the driver can pick up which I posted in this forum. That is true of all our games for the last 4 or more years.

In total I think we have about 80+ gamepads supported now.

Edwin
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Old Jan 8, 2013, 04:56 PM   #159
Pithism
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You should not need to use controller mate for most games if they have built in support, if it does not pick up then thats a problem inside controller mate, I would contract them with details.

Edwin

It also doesn't matter that the controller is meant for a Xbox, and not the pc. Its still a standard usb controller, and should work fine with a pc right?

I dont think they can help me anyways because in system preferences, in the xbox controller setting option, It lists no device found. It doesn't list anything. And in controller mate, i cant find the device their either, it listed as a controller, but i cant make changes to it. So my guess is that the driver doesn't work for me. This worked fine for me a year ago, and ever since 10.8, it has never worked. On my mac pro and mac book pro.

Any ideas on how to install the driver better? I have tried several times the regular way and no luck.

Maybe there a trick i need to do, to make it function properly. Its just confusing because it seems like its reading it partially because the icon is lit on the device, and even in system report its reading its plugged in. So its something on the driver side.

Is there a "special" way to install this. Because it seems to be working for others, just not me for some reason.

Last edited by Pithism; Jan 8, 2013 at 05:36 PM.
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 03:04 AM   #160
edddeduck
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It also doesn't matter that the controller is meant for a Xbox, and not the pc. Its still a standard usb controller, and should work fine with a pc right?

I dont think they can help me anyways because in system preferences, in the xbox controller setting option, It lists no device found. It doesn't list anything. And in controller mate, i cant find the device their either, it listed as a controller, but i cant make changes to it. So my guess is that the driver doesn't work for me. This worked fine for me a year ago, and ever since 10.8, it has never worked. On my mac pro and mac book pro.

Any ideas on how to install the driver better? I have tried several times the regular way and no luck.

Maybe there a trick i need to do, to make it function properly. Its just confusing because it seems like its reading it partially because the icon is lit on the device, and even in system report its reading its plugged in. So its something on the driver side.

Is there a "special" way to install this. Because it seems to be working for others, just not me for some reason.
If no device is found then your pad is not activating and it has nothing to do with controller mate. If it lights up with one light that means it should appear in the System Preferences. The driver can sometimes be a little tricky to get working. Are you using a original Microsoft 360 controller?
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 06:56 AM   #161
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Here is the updated script, it has moved to a permanent location and I have added a few more pads to the list. Here is the new list of pads that it should activate.

The following pads will now be recognised by the 360 drivers
Pad Name - Vendor ID - Device ID
ArcadeGameStick 1848 18264
BatarangWired 5604 16144
BigBenController 5227 1537
Controller 1118 654
DOA4Stick 3853 10
GamestopGamepad 4779 770
GamestopGamepad2 7085 63745
GameStopGamepad3 3695 1025
GuitarHero 5168 18248
GuitarHero 5168 18248
HoriFightingStickEX2 3853 10
HoriFightingStickEX2B 7085 62725
HoriFightingStickEX2C 3853 13
HoriFSVX 7085 62723
HoriPadEX2Turbo 7085 62721
HoriPadEXTurbo 3853 12
HoriRAPVXSA 7085 62722
HoriUnnamed 7085 21760
HoriUnnamedBlueSolo 7085 64001
JoytekXbox360 5678 48879
JoytekXbox360 5678 48879
KonamiDancePad 4779 4
LogitechF310 1133 49693
LogitechF510 1133 49694
LogitechF710 1133 49695
MadCatzBrawlStick 7085 61465
MadCatzFightStickNeo 7085 61498
MadCatzGamepad 1848 18198
MadCatzGamepad2 7085 63746
MadCatzGamepad3 7085 61642
MadCatzFPSPro 7085 61479
MadCatzMicroConGamepad 1848 18230
MadCatzMicroGamepad 1848 18230
MadCatzPad3 7085 61462
MadCatzPortableDrum 1848 39025
MadCatzProGamepad 1848 18214
MadCatzProGamepad 1848 18214
MVC2TEStick 7085 61497
MVC2TEStick2 1848 46904
PDPAfterglow 7085 63744
PDPTron 7085 63747
PDPVersusPad 7085 63748
PowerAMiniProEXGreen 5604 16128
PowerAMiniProEXWhite 9414 21248
RAPEXSE 3853 22
RazerOnza 7085 64769
RazerOnza2 5769 64769
RazerOnzaTE 7085 64768
RazerOnzaTE2 5769 64768
RedOctaneController 5168 63489
RockBandDrums 7085 3
RockBandGuitar 7085 2
RockCandy 3695 287
SaitekCB360 1848 51970
SC4VF5Stick 3853 13
SF4FightPad 7085 61480
SF4FightPad2 1848 18216
SF4StickSE 1848 18200
SF4StickTE 1848 18232
SF4StickTER2 7085 61496
SSF4StickTE 1848 63288
SSFIVTEChunLi 7085 61501
StrikeController 5769 1
TSZPelican 3695 513
ThrustmasterGPXLightback 9414 23298

Latest pads added are in bold.

http://support.feralinteractive.com/...rt.command.zip

Edwin
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Old Jan 9, 2013, 04:18 PM   #162
Pithism
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If no device is found then your pad is not activating and it has nothing to do with controller mate. If it lights up with one light that means it should appear in the System Preferences. The driver can sometimes be a little tricky to get working. Are you using a original Microsoft 360 controller?
Yea i bought it a few years ago, it should be. I didnt buy the newer one thats black. And im pretty sure its the one meant for Xbox not pc. But its still usb and did work in the past with older OSX versions.

Would using your zip their work for me, or at least help me?
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 03:24 AM   #163
edddeduck
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Yea i bought it a few years ago, it should be. I didnt buy the newer one thats black. And im pretty sure its the one meant for Xbox not pc. But its still usb and did work in the past with older OSX versions.

Would using your zip their work for me, or at least help me?
That's unlikely as my script adds third party pads. The fact you are also getting crashes is unexpected. You could try and install an older version of the drivers the 0.08 version was pretty stable and we used that version for a long time.

Edwin
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 03:31 AM   #164
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I thinks it would be nice to have more flexibility and button remapping in the driver like its Windows counterparts, but it does a fine job all the same .
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 05:01 AM   #165
edddeduck
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Mac Third Party 360 Driver Support Script 1.1.4 released.

http://support.feralinteractive.com/...rt.command.zip

Now supports MadCatzFightStickSoulCaliberV fightstick

UPDATE: 1.1.5 Released (same URL)

# 1.1.5 Added GameStopGamepad4 3695 769

Last edited by edddeduck; Jan 11, 2013 at 03:54 AM.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 06:14 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by edddeduck View Post
Mac Third Party 360 Driver Support Script 1.1.4 released.

http://support.feralinteractive.com/...rt.command.zip

Now supports MadCatzFightStickSoulCaliberV fightstick

UPDATE: 1.1.5 Released (same URL)

# 1.1.5 Added GameStopGamepad4 3695 769
Is there any way I can uninstall the script?
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 05:04 AM   #167
edddeduck
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Is there any way I can uninstall the script?
It just adds pads to a hidden preferences file, if you uninstall the drivers the list will be removed as well. The drivers don't have a reset to defaults option so I don't know how to reset the list off hand as it is not a file to remove like an uninstaller. I might be able to look into removing all the pads you added but it's not high on my todo list right now as it would not do much (the script can't break anything as far as I am aware) and I have never had a request for it before.

What do you need it for?

Cheers,

Edwin
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 06:24 AM   #168
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I installed the script to use my Logitech Dual Pad to play Bastion, but it was only after installing it that I saw that it wasn't supported.
So I asked my brother to borrow me is Xbox 360 controller. The problem is that after some minutes in the game using the Xbox 360 my Mac will restart. I'm now trying to solve this problem, and I want to try to uninstall the script and see if it was the source of the problem.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 06:49 AM   #169
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I installed the script to use my Logitech Dual Pad to play Bastion, but it was only after installing it that I saw that it wasn't supported.
So I asked my brother to borrow me is Xbox 360 controller. The problem is that after some minutes in the game using the Xbox 360 my Mac will restart. I'm now trying to solve this problem, and I want to try to uninstall the script and see if it was the source of the problem.
That issue is separate to the crash as we have seen it without the script installed but for now you can try uninstalling and reinstalling the drivers as that will remove the updated settings my script sends to the driver.

I suspect the crash is connected to the FFB (force feedback) kext in OS X. Some users say if they remove the FFB kext file from the OS the crashes no longer happen.

Good Luck

Edwin
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 08:11 AM   #170
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That issue is separate to the crash as we have seen it without the script installed but for now you can try uninstalling and reinstalling the drivers as that will remove the updated settings my script sends to the driver.

I suspect the crash is connected to the FFB (force feedback) kext in OS X. Some users say if they remove the FFB kext file from the OS the crashes no longer happen.

Good Luck

Edwin
Thanks for the help, I will try it.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:51 AM   #171
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Would the intent of trying to get a console controller working on your Mac is to play a console game on it? Otherwise keyboard/mouse, especially for FPS is superior.
For you it is superior and for all other FPS players on computers it is superior but I am sorry I cannot get my head around all the different keys fast enough when in a big fight. I have enough trouble with a controller let alone a handful of keys and a mouse, sorry.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 04:09 AM   #172
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For you it is superior and for all other FPS players on computers it is superior but I am sorry I cannot get my head around all the different keys fast enough when in a big fight. I have enough trouble with a controller let alone a handful of keys and a mouse, sorry.
It depends on the game and how it was designed, Batman Arkham City is part brawler which works much better with a controller so you can get combos etc with multiple buttons. It was also designed as a console title so the pad controls are optimised.

Borderlands you need to be able to snipe and aim quickly which usually lends itself to mouse and keyboard being superior.

We tend to just support pads and keyboards and let everyone decide for themselves.

Edwin
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 05:11 AM   #173
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It depends on the game and how it was designed, Batman Arkham City is part brawler which works much better with a controller so you can get combos etc with multiple buttons. It was also designed as a console title so the pad controls are optimised.

Borderlands you need to be able to snipe and aim quickly which usually lends itself to mouse and keyboard being superior.

We tend to just support pads and keyboards and let everyone decide for themselves.

Edwin
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:31 AM   #174
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For you it is superior and for all other FPS players on computers it is superior but I am sorry I cannot get my head around all the different keys fast enough when in a big fight. I have enough trouble with a controller let alone a handful of keys and a mouse, sorry.
By all means, play what suits you best. For myself, I have serious problems being accurate with little thumb controlled joysticks.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 10:12 AM   #175
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By all means, play what suits you best. For myself, I have serious problems being accurate with little thumb controlled joysticks.
Always the best idea

If you want to play deathmatch pad will always lose if the players are equally skilled. Just too slow and inaccurate.

If you want to play a beat em up then the keyboard and mouse will always lose as a pad is just much better for multiple key combos.

That's what I think anyway
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