"The iPhone 5 doesn't have a HD Screen" - What? Can someone explain this to me?

vastoholic said:

That is not normal viewing distance!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus. Welcome to the ignore list. I can't deal with this anymore.

There's not enough face palms in the world for some of the logic around here.

This is what you've done and why you see pixels.

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bonskovsky said:

What? Why are you having such a fit!

The above is just a screenshot and only a screenshot. Nothing more.

But properly viewed on the iPhone 5 ITSELF, (the actual app) yes, that button is pixelated. The "retina concept" only works under certain conditions.

It's not like Apple made pixels disappear.

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SomeDudeAsking said:

Disagree. This is classic Apple loyalist denial when they don't have something the competition has. You are missing 200,000 pixels on the iPhone 5, which causes display artifacts on 720p video. This is a significant amount of missing pixels.

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bonskovsky said:

Now I'm curious. So I started taking a look at what the iPhone 5 can really do.

I went to RED's website just to see what they've got.

I started looking at the OZ trailer. Even though this is in HD, it's not as vivid as it should be.

Image

It's relatively crisp though. As far as facial features but things like fire don't pop.

Image

What's missing, why doesn't this look better?

Image

If the retina display makes pixels invisible, then that should not be blurry. The gold mist should be vibrant and crispy. It's dull and blurry. I was really amazed by what BLU Ray can do. But not this.

Also, did you know that if you have pictures in the photo app, sliding through them or deleting them, you'll see it blurry and then go to regular resolution? Even something as simple as taking pictures of each of your home screens and then deleting some, they come up blurry.

I'm not going to say that the iPhone 5 isn't powerful, but I'm also not going to talk about it like it's the best of the best. The iPhone 5 is more of an ordinary phone than any other before it and Apple is falling behind.

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vastoholic said:

Please show me these display artifacts. Because I don't see a difference in watching HQ on my phone as compared to HD on my computer screen. As noted earlier, HD is also just a marketing term, similar to Retina. It does have standard resolutions that were determined upon as being "HD" but they were meant for large screens at much further viewing distances.

I do not see a major difference in watching a movie in HD on my computer compared to that on my iPhone. I personally hate watching video's on my iPhone because I think it's too small anyway at 4". That's not why I bought an iPhone. All these screen specs are useless to me. Text is the only thing I care about being clear and they've got that covered pretty much.

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apfeljonas said:

The funny part is, the iPhone 5 has HIGHER PPI than the S3... fandroids

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bonskovsky said:

Now I'm curious. So I started taking a look at what the iPhone 5 can really do.

I went to RED's website just to see what they've got.

I started looking at the OZ trailer. Even though this is in HD, it's not as vivid as it should be.

Image

It's relatively crisp though. As far as facial features but things like fire don't pop.

Image

What's missing, why doesn't this look better?

Image

If the retina display makes pixels invisible, then that should not be blurry. The gold mist should be vibrant and crispy. It's dull and blurry. I was really amazed by what BLU Ray can do. But not this.

Also, did you know that if you have pictures in the photo app, sliding through them or deleting them, you'll see it blurry and then go to regular resolution? Even something as simple as taking pictures of each of your home screens and then deleting some, they come up blurry.

I'm not going to say that the iPhone 5 isn't powerful, but I'm also not going to talk about it like it's the best of the best. The iPhone 5 is more of an ordinary phone than any other before it and Apple is falling behind.

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dmelgar said:

I disagree with your disagreement.

This is a classic case of a manufacturer trying to say their product is better by taking some spec value well beyond where its useful. If X is good, then X++ must be lots better.

But there's usually a limit where you can tell. The whole idea of a retina display is that the resolution is higher than your eye can distinguish. Doesn't matter if you add millions more pixels, there comes a time when it just doesn't matter. The iPhone 5 is already beyond where it matters.

It's like with stereos. Amplifiers long ago could not do high notes. So the higher a frequency it could play the better. Human hearing is generally 20-20khz. Once amplifiers were able to do that, manufacturers didn't want to stop.
My amp can do 20-40khz, some even bragging about 80khz or more. It was absurd since it was much much higher than any human could possibly hear. Now everyone lists just to 20khz. Going beyond that is actually bad due to artifacts from digital music.

The bottom line is that the resolution of the iPhone 5 in the size display that it has, is plenty, and higher resolution in that size screen is not normally perceptible.

So don't worry about whether its HD or not, it looks great on the iPhone 5. And the iPhone 5 does a much better job being accurate to colors than some other displays (s3).

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dmelgar said:

I disagree with your disagreement.

This is a classic case of a manufacturer trying to say their product is better by taking some spec value well beyond where its useful. If X is good, then X++ must be lots better.

But there's usually a limit where you can tell. The whole idea of a retina display is that the resolution is higher than your eye can distinguish. Doesn't matter if you add millions more pixels, there comes a time when it just doesn't matter. The iPhone 5 is already beyond where it matters.

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SomeDudeAsking said:

Apple marketing of "retina display" is not some God given commandment. For example, if I use Safari on my retina iPhone or iPod Touch, I can see some small checkered patterns outlining pixels inside of the white navigation buttons and in the grey and white text of websites.

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torana355 said:

Ok i will explain this for you, if you watch a 720p video on a screen that is not that exact resolution the video quality is decreased at it has to be either down or upscaled. This is why people like to watch stuff at native resolution.

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Its not about ppi, its about running at a true HD resolution which means no downscaling and loss of quality.

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lunaoso said:

Actually that is completely incorrect. PPI is what matters. And just because it doesn't run at native res, doesn't mean it looks worse. That's like saying if you take a piece of paper, make another exactly like it in material and everything else, at the same aspect ratio, and then make it smaller, it's a worse piece of paper. It's not. And PPI is very important actually. If you made a 1000 inch TV with a resolution of 1920 by 1080 ("full HD") and play an HD video, it would look like a piece of crap because the pixels would be so big. The iPhone has a display that makes it so that the human eye can't tell the difference between each pixel at a normal viewing distance. Adding more pixels would be like putting an Apple Store right next to an Apple Store that can fit everyone comfortably anyway. It's pointless. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference unless you looked at the screen from like half an inch away. "True HD" is just marketing that TV companies pump into consumers to buy their TV's. Same with HDMI cables. Marketing goes a long way.

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SomeDudeAsking said:

You are confusing what an HD display means with resolution density. The fact is that the iPhone 5 does not have an HD display, is missing 200,000 pixels to even be qualified for being 720p, and introduces display artifacts in 720p videos because it cannot display it at native resolutions.

As for your "retina display", did you actually fall for the all that Apple marketing material and take it as gospel? Fact is, many people with good vision can still see jagged edges and the checkered pattern outlining pixels in an iPhone "retina display". Apple marketing of "retina display" is not some God given commandment. For example, if I use Safari on my retina iPhone or iPod Touch, I can see some small checkered patterns outlining pixels inside of the white navigation buttons and in the grey and white text of websites. Maybe you are older than I am and have worse vision and can't see this but I don't consider myself to have hawk eyes and I can still see them in the right places on an Apple "retina display".

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bonskovsky said:

I disagree. The fact that the retina display "makes it so that the human eye can't tell the difference between each pixel at a normal viewing distance" is the very thing that makes it an inferior concept. I actually need to be able to look at it from an inch to tell that what I'm seeing is the real deal. That's why we're not getting that vividness. You have to view it from shoulder length for it to look "right" any closer and the illusion is broken.

Here is a PPI calculator.

http://members.ping.de/~sven/dpi.html

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bonskovsky said:

Now I'm curious. So I started taking a look at what the iPhone 5 can really do.

I went to RED's website just to see what they've got.

I started looking at the OZ trailer. Even though this is in HD, it's not as vivid as it should be.

Image

It's relatively crisp though. As far as facial features but things like fire don't pop.

Image

What's missing, why doesn't this look better?

Image

If the retina display makes pixels invisible, then that should not be blurry. The gold mist should be vibrant and crispy. It's dull and blurry. I was really amazed by what BLU Ray can do. But not this.

Also, did you know that if you have pictures in the photo app, sliding through them or deleting them, you'll see it blurry and then go to regular resolution? Even something as simple as taking pictures of each of your home screens and then deleting some, they come up blurry.

I'm not going to say that the iPhone 5 isn't powerful, but I'm also not going to talk about it like it's the best of the best. The iPhone 5 is more of an ordinary phone than any other before it and Apple is falling behind.

Click to expand...

lunaoso said:

Actually that is completely incorrect. PPI is what matters. And just because it doesn't run at native res, doesn't mean it looks worse. That's like saying if you take a piece of paper, make another exactly like it in material and everything else, at the same aspect ratio, and then make it smaller, it's a worse piece of paper. It's not. And PPI is very important actually. If you made a 1000 inch TV with a resolution of 1920 by 1080 ("full HD") and play an HD video, it would look like a piece of crap because the pixels would be so big. The iPhone has a display that makes it so that the human eye can't tell the difference between each pixel at a normal viewing distance. Adding more pixels would be like putting an Apple Store right next to an Apple Store that can fit everyone comfortably anyway. It's pointless. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference unless you looked at the screen from like half an inch away. "True HD" is just marketing that TV companies pump into consumers to buy their TV's. Same with HDMI cables. Marketing goes a long way.

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matttye said:

If pixels are indistinguishable at your usual distance, then what's the problem? You surely don't use the phone only an inch from your face...

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bonskovsky said:

Of course pixels are indistinguishable from a certain distance. You're already too far away from it for it to matter. Take the best display you've ever seen, like an HDTV, if you're watching from outside the house, you can't see the individual pixels.

I hold the iPhone 7 inches away. That's the sweet spot.

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Radiating said:

This is extremly inane. You're using software flaws to try to prove that a screen lacks resolution.

That's like coating a can of fire retradant in gasoline and complaining that it lights on fire.

Completly absurd.

If you want to do a real test use a dot interference pattern:

Image

Save this to your phone and view it at full resolution.

The dot patern alternates between black, grey and white dots.

If you cannot make out the difference between the white, and the grey dots then disussion over.

This is a test of the modular transfer 50 function. This may enhance the apperance of screen flickering, ignore that.

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Radiating said:

This is extremly inane. You're using software flaws to try to prove that a screen lacks resolution.

That's like coating a can of fire retradant in gasoline and complaining that it lights on fire.

Completly absurd.

If you want to do a real test use a dot interference pattern:

Image

Save this to your phone and view it at full resolution.

The dot patern alternates between black, grey and white dots.

If you cannot make out the difference between the white, and the grey dots then disussion over.

This is a test of the modular transfer 50 function. This may enhance the apperance of screen flickering, ignore that.

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bonskovsky said:

Perfect example of what I just said. Holding it at arms length, it doesn't matter how HD it is,
Holding it at 7 inches, I can see the details.

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bonskovsky said:

Yes.There's a definite pattern. We talked about this before.

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bonskovsky said:

Say what you want, but in hindsight, I find irony in having been so impressed with Blu-ray video yet Apple sitting here talking about how retina is more HD than an HDTV, but I've never seen it that way.

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matttye said:

Have to say I haven't noticed any display artefacts. Got an example vid where it's clear to see?

My vision is 6/6 so it's probably understandable why I can't distinguish pixels 20/20 with glasses though, and I still can't!

By the time I get close enough to the screen where I think I might see pixels, it goes blurry.

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SomeDudeAsking said:

Time to prove you wrong. I will use a image instead of a video to make this simpler and reduce the inane denials from the Apple loyalists. Download this HD 1280x720p test image:

http://www.dveo.com/images/hdtv/itworks-HDTV_720P.png

View it on both your iPhone 5 and on a 720p Android phone. On your iPhone, zoom out and let it spring back in to ensure you actually see the whole image since the iPhone doesn't have enough pixels to display it all natively. I'm using a Galaxy Note 2 for comparison which does have a native 720p display and opens the image up completely without cropping.

Now that you have both open showing the full image with no cropping, look at the black and white line divisions in the middle of the test image. Notice that on the iPhone, both the finest and second finest line divisions are shown in clumped groups compared to the correct rendering on a real 720p display like a Galaxy Note 2. On a real 720p display, the finest and second finest line divisions are displayed evenly and without clumped lines. This is easy to see and I'm looking from 2-3 feet away.

This people, is just one example of why the iPhone 5 is inferior for watching 720p content. The fact is that the iPhone 5 display is not HD, is missing 200,000 pixels to be 720p, and it introduces visible display artifacts into 720p content like I have shown. The denials from all the Apple loyalists here are both inane and absurdly wrong.

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