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Old Jan 23, 2013, 02:30 PM   #26
wonderspark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace View Post
Bunk.

This is computer stuff we're talking about not MLK's philosophy.
My point is that tolerance is universal, including computer stuff.

If you really think we should split off into groups, where Apple fans are here, Android fans are over there and so forth... then I question why you chose the internet nickname of 'Peace' and use a peace symbol as your avatar, because it appears to define irony.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 02:32 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by wonderspark View Post
My point is that tolerance is universal, including computer stuff.

If you really think we should split off into groups, where Apple fans are here, Android fans are over there and so forth... then I question why you chose the internet nickname of 'Peace' and use a peace symbol as your avatar, because it appears to define irony.
Well I would suggest you go study up on the concept of peace.
It's not always rainbows and unicorns.

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Old Jan 23, 2013, 02:41 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Peace View Post
Well I would suggest you go study up on the concept of peace.

Fair suggestion. I can agree that for people who are incapable of being tolerant, it can be more peaceful for them to be segregated from the rest of society that *is* capable of tolerance and coexistence.

As for the added comment that it's not always rainbows and unicorns... I suggest that unfortunate truth can be correlated with allowing intolerance to be acceptable.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 02:45 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by wonderspark View Post
Fair suggestion. I can agree that for people who are incapable of being tolerant, it can be more peaceful for them to be segregated from the rest of society that *is* capable of tolerance and coexistence.

As for the added comment that it's not always rainbows and unicorns... I suggest that unfortunate truth can be correlated with allowing intolerance to be acceptable.
With all due respect you were the one that went personal not me.

Tolerance is a two way street.

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Old Jan 23, 2013, 02:59 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by AQUADock View Post
So you can annoy iOS users about how android is better? I'm not saying you're the one who is doing that but a few of people do.
And those are trolls that can easily be ignored. What's equally bad is when I get called an Apple hating Android fanboy when I clearly never bash any Apple products.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 03:13 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by MonkeySee.... View Post
You can barely go into a thread without someone saying Android this or Android that. There is even a thread asking "How Apple is innovative". Why are we getting questions like that? It has to be a wind up surely?
So mentioning something else is a bad thing here? Android! Windows! Did I offend someone?

Honestly I feel this site has those who will love Apple no matter what they put out.

I mean you said:

Quote:
There is even a thread asking "How Apple is innovative". Why are we getting questions like that?
So are we supposed to NOT question whether or not Apple is innovating anymore? Sounds to be like some here aren't willing to hear things critical of Apple. If I misunderstood your comment, I apologize.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica Lares View Post
I just ignore those posts. Obviously if you can't see the innovation in Apple products, then you're probably not an Apple consumer to begin with.

I don't like reading journalism type posts either - Go post that on your blog, not here.
Let's see I have a Mac Pro (typing on it now) and an iPod. Thinking about getting a new iPod Touch now. I'm an "Apple Consumer."

But I also have a Nexus 7 and Galaxy Nexus. I think those options offer more innovation that Apple has currently. Could that change? Yes. I hope it does.

If being an "Apple consumer" means buying anything Apple regardless of how it stacks up to the competition, then that's not for me.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 03:23 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by tech4all View Post
If being an "Apple consumer" means buying anything Apple regardless of how it stacks up to the competition, then that's not for me.
That's not enough apparently, you also need to defend Apple from the evil OS agnostic consumers
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 05:30 PM   #33
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I've noticed it's quite hard to be pro-apple around here - *especially* in the news sections.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 05:42 PM   #34
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I have to agree with the OP. I rarely come here anymore because its just gotten so annoying to read threads like:

"Is Apple losing its touch?"
"iOS vs Android"
"Why I am leaving Apple!"

yadda yadda yadda...Its exhausting to read. You'd think Apple made the worst computers in the world after visiting this site.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 08:11 PM   #35
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Once upon a time, when MacRumors was young, this was a little oasis of savvy and grown-up Mac users who gathered to shoot the breeze when rumors were often few and far between. Many of us, professionals for the large part, had stuck with Apple through the lean years because these were the tools we used to pay the bills and put food on the table.

Then, as time went on and the iPod came about, a few more people became interested in Apple and the site grew... but Windows evangelists who came here were shunned, seen as trolls and often banned. I've occasionally pulled the plug on people like this myself, because they added little to the site. Things started to shift a little when the Intel Macs came along and Bootcamp came about, so the 'Windows on the Mac' forums were set up.

When the iPhone was released, membership grew by leaps and bounds, but paradoxically, those who came onboard with Apple at this stage, seemed to have less allegiance to Apple because by this stage, Apple was seen by many as a consumer electronics firm. And people wanted to talk about other handsets, unlike the large majority of Mac users who knew what platform was best for them... and this created a whole new level of debate because, quite rightly, a large section of Apple fans weren't interested in talking about other handsets.

Not long after the iPhone forums were created, I stickied a poll in there, asking if people wanted to keep the iPhone forum restricted to Apple handsets only. After a few weeks, it was split 50/50, something you would have never seen in regards to Windows back in the Mac-only days of MacRumors.

And to be honest, the moderator workload in maintaining an iPhone only forum would have been near impossible, with close monitoring of each thread needed to ensure that no-one uttered the word 'Razr' or 'Android', lest a thread become derailed. So, seeing that it was near impossible to keep the hordes out, my assumption is that an accomodation was reached, which was to set up the other handsets/platforms forum, in which threads could be dumped into, much as a console games sub-forum was implemented years ago after the original gaming on the Mac forum became unmanageable, due to childish console wars.

And so, due to the near-impossibility of keeping a lid on an army of fractious nerds, in almost all cases, instead of making moderator work by tossing people off the forums, an accomodation has been reached where people can talk about this stuff if they want. So there we have it.

However, what this has meant is a dilution of brand to some degree, where the front page now has news items about Microsoft products. For some, we can get this news anywhere... so whether by design, or by increments due to practical reasons, those of us who drop by for the Apple stuff have to share this space with those whose allegiances and buying decisions range a little more widely. I see and expect no reason for this change, because after all, traffic, clicks and eyeballs is all that matters. So my advice is, in seven words: suck it up and get over it.

Here endeth the lesson.


_______________________________________________
Disclaimer: Mac user for 20 years, departmental purchaser, owned iPods and even one of the few that still owns an iPod Hifi... but own an ICS Android phone, for which I would never come here to talk or seek advice on because there are countless Android forums out there. It just seems bad manners to come here to trash-talk Apple when it comes to something as minor as a phone. Bit old-skool that way.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:02 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by MonkeySee.... View Post
I understand that Android is growing with popularity. I understand that Apple isn't the be all and end all of Tech but The poison spreading about this site is ridiculous. I know we have the "alternate" section but its hard to avoid.

You can barely go into a thread without someone saying Android this or Android that. There is even a thread asking "How Apple is innovative". Why are we getting questions like that? It has to be a wind up surely?

It seem people are out to get Apple on this site and I'd almost go as far as saying that the Android stuff is out weighing the Apple stuff.

I know this isn't my site an my opinion isn't worth much but it would be great if you can move it all completely away from the main site. e.g. 9to5Mac has a sister site called 9to5Google. Good thing about that is you don't even have to fish through the dross to read and talk about Apple.
Really? Perhaps you need more will power. I've never once ventured into the Alternate forum, and I actually have an interest in Android and think it's a fine operating system.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 06:56 AM   #37
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Although the site is called MacRumors, it's grown in to more than that now.

You've blocked the section, but it really isn't that difficult to avoid it.

I am not interested in the Code Sharing And Software Promos section so don't go in. I'm not overly interested in the PRSI section so don't go in.

And in the same light as to wanting to remove the Alternate Section, you should remove some other sections, such as PRSI. The topics in PRSI aren't related to Apple (for the most part).

All forums cater for other brands. It keeps things interesting. Car manufactures specific forums allow discussion of other brands to allow old members who have moved on to stay part of the community.

Android Central has got a section for Other brands with iOS, BlackBerry, Windows Phone and even Ubuntu mobile.

Gone are the days of when we can simply stay in our own little sections of the Internet. People are too willing to spread FUD and without the relevant sections to correct it no-one will have all the information to make a complete picture.

Besides, it's just someone's opinion. Who really cares?!
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 07:50 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Velvet View Post
Once upon a time, when MacRumors was young, this was a little oasis of savvy and grown-up Mac users who gathered to shoot the breeze when rumors were often few and far between. Many of us, professionals for the large part, had stuck with Apple through the lean years because these were the tools we used to pay the bills and put food on the table.

Then, as time went on and the iPod came about, a few more people became interested in Apple and the site grew... but Windows evangelists who came here were shunned, seen as trolls and often banned. I've occasionally pulled the plug on people like this myself, because they added little to the site. Things started to shift a little when the Intel Macs came along and Bootcamp came about, so the 'Windows on the Mac' forums were set up.

When the iPhone was released, membership grew by leaps and bounds, but paradoxically, those who came onboard with Apple at this stage, seemed to have less allegiance to Apple because by this stage, Apple was seen by many as a consumer electronics firm. And people wanted to talk about other handsets, unlike the large majority of Mac users who knew what platform was best for them... and this created a whole new level of debate because, quite rightly, a large section of Apple fans weren't interested in talking about other handsets.

Not long after the iPhone forums were created, I stickied a poll in there, asking if people wanted to keep the iPhone forum restricted to Apple handsets only. After a few weeks, it was split 50/50, something you would have never seen in regards to Windows back in the Mac-only days of MacRumors.

And to be honest, the moderator workload in maintaining an iPhone only forum would have been near impossible, with close monitoring of each thread needed to ensure that no-one uttered the word 'Razr' or 'Android', lest a thread become derailed. So, seeing that it was near impossible to keep the hordes out, my assumption is that an accomodation was reached, which was to set up the other handsets/platforms forum, in which threads could be dumped into, much as a console games sub-forum was implemented years ago after the original gaming on the Mac forum became unmanageable, due to childish console wars.

And so, due to the near-impossibility of keeping a lid on an army of fractious nerds, in almost all cases, instead of making moderator work by tossing people off the forums, an accomodation has been reached where people can talk about this stuff if they want. So there we have it.

However, what this has meant is a dilution of brand to some degree, where the front page now has news items about Microsoft products. For some, we can get this news anywhere... so whether by design, or by increments due to practical reasons, those of us who drop by for the Apple stuff have to share this space with those whose allegiances and buying decisions range a little more widely. I see and expect no reason for this change, because after all, traffic, clicks and eyeballs is all that matters. So my advice is, in seven words: suck it up and get over it.

Here endeth the lesson.


_______________________________________________
Disclaimer: Mac user for 20 years, departmental purchaser, owned iPods and even one of the few that still owns an iPod Hifi... but own an ICS Android phone, for which I would never come here to talk or seek advice on because there are countless Android forums out there. It just seems bad manners to come here to trash-talk Apple when it comes to something as minor as a phone. Bit old-skool that way.
I like the disclaimer.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 01:34 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Chris.L View Post
Gone are the days of when we can simply stay in our own little sections of the Internet. People are too willing to spread FUD and without the relevant sections to correct it no-one will have all the information to make a complete picture.
How true!
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 09:32 PM   #40
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My question is why some of you so desperately want to live in a bubble where you hear absolutely no criticism of the products you buy?

At some point, someone is going to buy an Apple product and not be happy with it. Either it doesn't work how they initially believed, or they see some feature the competition has, and want to bring up how nice it'd be if they had it too.

Or what about people who mix and match their products. They own a Mac, but don't like the iDevices, and opted for an Android phone instead. What about them?

Are these people not allowed to complain on an Apple forum as Apple owners about what they don't like because it disturbs the...what...feel good pat-on-the-back atmosphere? I don't get it. It's their corner as much as it is yours. They have just as much right to complain as you do to praise. Of course there should be limits to this. "iOS SUCKS ANDROID RULZ" people here just to rile everyone up should get the boot. Or people who are flat out hostile for no apparent reason over and over and over again. But legitimate complains? Or people wanting to praise the competition because they honestly like it (which can be done without saying Apple sucks or anything like that). It's all valid.

Hell, why even put them on ignore? That's so...I dunno...pointlessly passive aggressive to me. The ignore feature is there for extra annoying people or trolls who somehow manage to dodge yee olde banhammer. It shouldn't be used against people who's only crime is not agreeing with you on something. That's just petty.

Comeon, people. It's a tech site primarily for Apple fans. That doesn't mean it's only for people who use Apple products exclusively. You're gonna get some bleedthrough no matter how much you'd otherwise wish.

You know why I joined Macrumors? Because it was one of the few Mac sites that was more open and level headed, rather than insanely weird and cliquey beyond all reason. I'd prefer to keep it that way.

It takes a lot of people to make a world, after all.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 10:20 PM   #41
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I'm a Mac user, love the forum, but prefer android phones. of course, I don't go to this website for discussion on android as it seems a bit out of place and there are better sites for that.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 10:27 PM   #42
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Fine with me.

But perhaps we should ban android users.

No?

Perhaps just limit them to seven posts.

Last edited by danpass; Jan 24, 2013 at 10:34 PM.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:59 PM   #43
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Fine with me.

But perhaps we should ban android users.

No?

Perhaps just limit them to seven posts.
Wow, seven posts! Which seven of my 2,125 should the forum keep? Probably only 1,800 were helpful to people over the years.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 12:32 AM   #44
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It's called sarcasm.

Haven't you heard the number 7 recently.


Too subtle I guess
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 03:39 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by danpass View Post
It's called sarcasm.

Haven't you heard the number 7 recently.


Too subtle I guess
I've only heard the numbers zero and eight recently.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 04:55 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
My question is why some of you so desperately want to live in a bubble where you hear absolutely no criticism of the products you buy?

At some point, someone is going to buy an Apple product and not be happy with it. Either it doesn't work how they initially believed, or they see some feature the competition has, and want to bring up how nice it'd be if they had it too.

Or what about people who mix and match their products. They own a Mac, but don't like the iDevices, and opted for an Android phone instead. What about them?

Are these people not allowed to complain on an Apple forum as Apple owners about what they don't like because it disturbs the...what...feel good pat-on-the-back atmosphere? I don't get it. It's their corner as much as it is yours. They have just as much right to complain as you do to praise. Of course there should be limits to this. "iOS SUCKS ANDROID RULZ" people here just to rile everyone up should get the boot. Or people who are flat out hostile for no apparent reason over and over and over again. But legitimate complains? Or people wanting to praise the competition because they honestly like it (which can be done without saying Apple sucks or anything like that). It's all valid.

Hell, why even put them on ignore? That's so...I dunno...pointlessly passive aggressive to me. The ignore feature is there for extra annoying people or trolls who somehow manage to dodge yee olde banhammer. It shouldn't be used against people who's only crime is not agreeing with you on something. That's just petty.

Comeon, people. It's a tech site primarily for Apple fans. That doesn't mean it's only for people who use Apple products exclusively. You're gonna get some bleedthrough no matter how much you'd otherwise wish.

You know why I joined Macrumors? Because it was one of the few Mac sites that was more open and level headed, rather than insanely weird and cliquey beyond all reason. I'd prefer to keep it that way.

It takes a lot of people to make a world, after all.
I agree, very valid points but the moderators should pick up the pace in getting rid of those trolls. But in the end the more popular a site gets the more attractive it is to trolls.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 08:07 AM   #47
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What's equally bad is when I get called an Apple hating Android fanboy when I clearly never bash any Apple products.
Just singling you out because it was easy to quote, but:

This is an apple-centric tech site, but not exclusively - That's a great thing!

But, why on earth is it a bad thing to 'bash' Apple products?
Being a blind fan of a corporation is pretty pathetic, loving a product is completely different. Pointing out shortcomings, talking about how improvements to current and future models and providing comparisons is interesting and relevant surely? People are different, personal opinions count - Otherwise we might as well just delete all the forums other than 'General Chat' and just have a non-comment-able homepage!
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 09:55 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by VoR View Post
Just singling you out because it was easy to quote, but:

This is an apple-centric tech site, but not exclusively - That's a great thing!

But, why on earth is it a bad thing to 'bash' Apple products?
Being a blind fan of a corporation is pretty pathetic, loving a product is completely different. Pointing out shortcomings, talking about how improvements to current and future models and providing comparisons is interesting and relevant surely? People are different, personal opinions count - Otherwise we might as well just delete all the forums other than 'General Chat' and just have a non-comment-able homepage!
Bashing something is not a good thing but constructively criticizing is. Bashing is were you say that something is bad and flame it without much reason or facts, were as criticizing is pointing out the faults.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 10:53 AM   #49
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I agree, very valid points but the moderators should pick up the pace in getting rid of those trolls. But in the end the more popular a site gets the more attractive it is to trolls.
They've been pretty quick to the punch from what I've seen. The more blatant they are, the quicker they get booted off the boards.

Though you do have the occasional posters (on both sides of the great tech divide) who rarely ever add anything useful to a conversation. They'll come in, say something flat out ignorant and wrong, and usually derail whatever thread they're posting in. They're annoying as hell to me, but they can go on for years and years without even seeing a time out.

...and I guess it's alright that they do, because they're not exactly trolls. They're just...dumb. Being dumb about something and having a stupid opinion (that doesn't change no matter how many times you're proven wrong) shouldn't be reason for a ban. As long as they're at least semi civil and aren't baiting people just to get a rise out of them (which I do occasionally, I'll admit), they have the same rights to post here as anyone else.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:55 PM   #50
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I was one of the many people who agitated hard for an Android forum, not because I'm an Android fan*, but because it seemed like a better way of organizing information and reducing animosity. The problem is that some MR readers posting in that subforum still make statements about people rather than phones. Even in this thread there is a post that describes others as 'blind' and 'pathetic'.

It's not rocket science: confine one's comments to technology (phones, computers etc.) and the discussion is interesting and useful. Start making things personal, and the quality of the discussion plummets....

*FWIW I am actively considering getting an Android tablet (price considerations), so I do visit the Alternatives subforum and usually it is pretty informative.
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