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brentsg

macrumors 68040
Oct 15, 2008
3,578
936
Wait, you don't really mean that, do you?

Diagnostic LEDs -- for example? I can't see through aluminum, and I don't think you can either.

I've worked on plenty of powered-up computers, and seen plenty of well-trained techs do the same (for example, techs from the late great Digital Equipment Corporation). It was a DEC engineer who taught me to use a cable tie to test whether a hidden fan was spinning or not.

Because everybody's guessing, my guess is that it has to do with properly isolating/insulating AC. I've been into tons of boxes (typically not computers) with interlocks that break the AC connection when the box is opened, and of course the Mac Pro doesn't have anything like that.

This (positive interlock) was especially common on old tube TVs (yeah, I'm not young . . . I disassembled my first TV back in the 1950s), even though the charge in their capacitors could easily kill you.

So I wonder how you are intended to troubleshoot problems with a fan if they won't spin with the case open? I just had to work on one over the holidays, where the CPU fan wasn't spinning at all. Oddly enough the CPU wasn't even getting all that hot (3770k), so it would have been interesting if they had a kill switch.
 

TimTheEnchanter

macrumors 6502a
Oct 24, 2004
732
1
Minneapolis, MN

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cjeukens

macrumors newbie
Apr 19, 2005
3
0
IJsselstein, the Netherlands
Nobel prize

Hey, when challenging the motivation of EU legislation, remember the highest ranking committee on issueing rewards, has awarded that same EU with a Nobel prize.

Thus there must be something right in the amendment.

Let's steer away from the external evil and focus on items Apple can control itself.

Please come up with a decent lineup of new PowerMacs. I don't care if you name it a Pro, but give me muscle.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,309
3,902
My dictionary does list both what I said and what you said,

Highly unlikely that some dictionary lists this as "top niche product". It might say 'best' , 'finest' , "most important" . What folks are failing around on is different criteria for best/finest. For the most part equating those to "the one I like the most" == best/finest.


The naval metaphor is simply that. The term has been adapted for use about consumer products. That's how etymology works.

The usage isn't the root cause of the disconnect. Disconnects on "finest"/"best" are far more indicative of where the misuse comes from here.

I fully understand folks can bastardize the term into a completely new definition space. However, in the one that exist now it is still the case that there is an quality tag that has nothing to do with price tag size or volume that denote the classification.
 

Umbongo

macrumors 601
Sep 14, 2006
4,934
55
England
G4, G5, first few gen Intels were. All Apple would do is compare everything to the pro models. G4/G5 even more so when they were said to be more powerful than x86 machines.

The first Mac Pro (2006) was the last one they really talked about, compared to Dell on stage, made a big deal out of at WWDC. 2008 was released a week before Mac World and not mentioned and it has been press releases and a few comments ever since.
 

MacBoobsPro

macrumors 603
Jan 10, 2006
5,114
6
Isnt there a giant freakin side panel you have to take off, then a plastic interior panel to remove before you even get near a fan?

The sooner the UK gets the hell out of the EU the better. There are some compete ****ing idiots in this world.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,309
3,902
So I wonder how you are intended to troubleshoot problems with a fan if they won't spin with the case open? I just had to work on one over the holidays, where the CPU fan wasn't spinning at all. Oddly enough the CPU wasn't even getting all that hot (3770k), so it would have been interesting if they had a kill switch.

Since this limitation is on large diameter fans, you just stop them if don't insert a guard. The whole side of the computer is off so it is quite unlikely there is a reduced amount of air coming into the enclosure.

Frankly, there is already airflow guides on the back of the fans already. Something shother yet similar on the front isn't that hard either.
 

sarge

macrumors 6502a
Jul 20, 2003
597
136
Brooklyn
when their own legal system allows individuals to successfully sue people and companies for thinks like not putting warnings on cups of coffee that the contents may be hot (Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants). It's stuff like that that scares american companies to take preventative measures in case they get sued, I know because I used to work for one.

This case gets cited all the time. However after seeing this, you might think twice about limiting an individuals ability to sue a corporation:

http://www.hotcoffeethemovie.com/

Mickey Dee's policy required serving coffee at 180-190°F (82-88 °C). Ridiculously, third degree burn in 2-7 seconds hot. If you watch this doc you'll see that no matter how many scalding complaints and injuries they were made aware of, only the lawsuit changed the temperature policy. So thanks to the USA, your UK coffee is at a safe sipping temp (not sure about the Earl Grey)
 

linuxcooldude

macrumors 68020
Mar 1, 2010
2,480
7,232
Yes, I understand all that. Sorry. But the new FCPX users don't need a $4000 MP... I'm using it on a iMac! (BTW take a look at benchmarks that show the high end iMac beats the low end MPs).

But true, honest pros, not wannabes making corporate and wedding videos, using Avid and Premiere don't NEED a Mac, even if they prefer it. A PC or Avid workstation will do fine, if not better right now. That is my point. Not too many bona fide pros use FCPX.

And you don't need a $4000.00 PC workstation to run Premier Pro. But some still do. Sorry, but for some, the lack of a proper upgradable graphics card, expandable memory, is still an issue. Thunderbolt does not quite cut it for the time being for everything yet.

A true "Pro" uses whatever works for them, not what everyone else tells them. The movie "Crank 2" used a multitude of consumer grade camcorders for filming the production. Their small size made it far easier for placement then what larger cameras would not go.

Most of the problems of FCP X has already been worked out. With some saying its the best multi-cam feature they had ever used.
 

NY Guitarist

macrumors 68000
Mar 21, 2011
1,585
1,581
More than a few people are extremely fickle...

Or perhaps concerned that the machines that they rely on to run their business will be discontinued because there is more money in selling iDevices to the masses, and no long-term plan in place for 'Pro' hardware or software.
 

gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,565
Regulatory compliance is something the 2nd largest public company in the world should know how to do.

Actually, the largest by market caps. Four percent more than the second one, which is Exxon. And Apple just made sure that every Mac Pro sold in Europe will comply with all regulations.


Yes, but again please show me links of other major vendors (Acer, Dell...) having to retire product in the EU?

Who would notice?
 
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Chupa Chupa

macrumors G5
Jul 16, 2002
14,835
7,396
They've been fumbling the MacPro for about two years now. When the hardware is so out of date you can't even legally sell it in parts of the world that count as dropping.

I still like my analogy. :)

Whatever Apple has done in the past regarding the Mac Pro is irrelevant. The topic here is this play not everyone before it. There is a whole forum for that. It's clear Apple didn't want to make modifications so it kicked the ball away and will make ground up when it updates the pro line. Nothing really changes here.

BTW the EU rules have nothing to do with the hardware being out of date, but with the fan not being covered per the new reg.
 

Ubele

macrumors 6502a
Mar 20, 2008
889
333
:)

Joking aside, I know where most of Apple's profits are coming from today: iPad and iPhone.

Still, I don't see how a company with 137bn in the bank can't use just 100-250 million (that pays for a lot lot of engineers and R&D) to keep its Mac software (iWork and so on) and its Pro line updated.

It would be money well spent. Look how much money they now spend - I would argue squander - on dividends for AAPL shareholders. Under CEO Steve Jobs AAPL never paid a dividend and it didn't hurt.

I hear you. I don't need the power of a Mac Pro, but I know many people do. I'm one of those people, though, who wish Apple still offered a mid-priced tower, which I know will never happen. My 2000 G4 Power Mac "Sawtooth" was the best computer I ever owned. I got eight years out of it, upgrading every component that could be upgraded, and customizing it just the way I wanted. When it finally became too slow for my needs, I gave it to my dad, who got another two years out of it before it bit the dust. Honestly, though, the current Mac Mini would meet my needs (I've just about outgrown the 2008 MBP that replaced my Power Mac), but I'm holding out for the Haswell version because of the better graphics.
 

FluJunkie

macrumors 6502a
Jul 17, 2007
618
1
Actually, the largest by market caps. Four percent more than the second one, which is Exxon.

My impression was with Apple's share price dropping faster than...something that drops fast...they had lost the crown, though of course that can change by day.

And Apple just made sure that every Mac Pro sold in Europe will comply with all regulations.

Indeed. I was contesting that Apple has no control of how they comply with regulations.
 

Ubele

macrumors 6502a
Mar 20, 2008
889
333
The update frequency is not as important as doing rigid and/or non-focused product update strategies. Those companies primary problem is that they update products with widely different growth rates at that same refresh rates. So if there is some shrinking sub-segment that gets as much R&D resources as a segment that is growing.

That shotgun approach works when there are more growing than shrinking sub-segments and there is little self inflicted cannibalization at the edges of the sub-segments. Update everything and something will stick to the wall and be a high growth winner to cover the losses on the losers sank money into.

Apple tends to prune off the shrinking sub-segments and reallocate more resources to those that have better match to the subset of customers they are targeting. As desktops plateaued Apple expanded the number of laptop subsegments and effectively shrank the desktop/non-mobile ones. That have still bet on desktop/non-mobile segments that are moving up; All-in-one.

The overall workstation market, not just Mac Pro, has been largely comatose over the 2008 recession and the following recovery.

Thanks for the serious response to my silly response. Yes, Apple knows what they're doing from a strategic business standpoint. It just sucks for people in those shrinking sub-segments.
 

wizard

macrumors 68040
May 29, 2003
3,854
571
What doesn't sound right is your view on the subject! Apple has flat out said that a new machine to replace the current Mac Pro is coming out this year. Either you missed the message or can't grasp what was being said.

As to upgrading the machine to some silly European spec when it is well known a new model is on the way is simply a waste of time. The real problem here isn't Apple but rather the nanny state mentality of the european community. Lets face it anybody that puts their fingers into a fan inside the case of a computer deserves to have then bloodied. You can't fix stupid with anything other than a rope tied into a noose.

A company sitting on over $130B in cash and who just posted record year-over-year sales and profits (over $13B) should be ashamed of themselves for not updating their flagship product. You can't tell me that Apple hasn't made a conscious decision to let this product die. Apple is such a large company and they can't update the Mac Pro to current industry specs for over two years? Something doesn't sound right...
 
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