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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:08 PM   #51
AustinIllini
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Originally Posted by nick_elt View Post
Brazil doesnt own the trademark....
It would be naive to think that the government of Brazil is incapable of manipulating a company housed on its soil.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:09 PM   #52
MN7119
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
I don't think paying 100 top lawyers is gonna be cheaper than paying Gradiente for a license anyway.

By the way, those able to read in Portuguese should check the following link:

http://www.ie.ufrj.br/desenvolviment...ecnologica.pdf

It's a paper analyzing the Unitron case, when a well-known Brazilian company produced a Mac clone (the "Mac 512") through perfectly-legal reverse engineering means (i.e., no Apple patent in Brazil).

However, strong pressure from the US government + corporate lobbying from competing companies in Brazil made the military government backtrack from its original decision to allow the company to produce such clones - it's a fascinating story.

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What "stuff"? A few iPhones by Foxconn?

Brazil is the 5th (or 6th, depending on who you ask) largest economy in the world; the US is not even its largest trading partner anymore.

On the other hand, Brazilian tourists are the ones spending the most money of all nationalities in places like NY.

So it's more like this nowadays, given the dire state of the US economy: Brazil asks, the US concedes - not the other way round.
Gradiente is a broken company that for 30 years failed to deliver any technology that is worth buying. They found an opportunity to make some money which they never did. It is sad to be a Brazilian when you see things like this.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:10 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Peace View Post
IGB Electronica SA has Apple by the proverbial sack and they know it.

Apple's gonna pay a lot for this.
Apple will pay a fair price. The Brazilian Govt wants more Apple Production. So far the Brazilian's are doing a pretty dam good job on QC. Far better than China, IMO. Maybe someday, all production could be in the America's?

The negotiation will be between Apple, Gradiente, and Fernando Pimentel.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:14 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinIllini View Post
It would be naive to think that the government of Brazil is incapable of manipulating a company housed on its soil.
The owners seem to be dealing with this quite well. Yes, of course Brazil could do that but if Apple did something like that it would be extremely bad PR and wouldnt be in their interest doing it that way.
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Last edited by nick_elt; Feb 5, 2013 at 04:21 PM.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:15 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by nick_elt View Post
Patent troll??? are you for real? the legitamately own the trademark and have so since 2000. They havent been pushing apple too hard as they could of since they are selling iphones already in brazil. you fan boys need to open your eyes.

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Brazil doesnt own the trademark....
Knowing Brazil they could very easily.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:23 PM   #56
AustinIllini
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Originally Posted by nick_elt View Post
The owners seem to be dealing with this quite well. Yes, of course Brazil could do that but if Apple did something like that it would be extremely bad PR and wouldnt be in their interest doing it that way.
I wouldn't say "extremely". Foxconn's behavior is "extremely bad PR" for Apple. Trying to get a license to use a name, however it happens, leads to "negative PR".
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:23 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Peace View Post
All Apple has to do is tell Brazil they are going to stop making stuff in Brazil.

Then sit back and watch how fast Apple gets the trademark in Brazil.
Man if I had a nickel for every time someone made this similar ignorant comment in this forum - I would be rich indeed.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:42 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace View Post
All Apple has to do is tell Brazil they are going to stop making stuff in Brazil.

Then sit back and watch how fast Apple gets the trademark in Brazil.
It's frightening how some people think the world operates.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:50 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
As a Brazilian, I can assure that it's more than legit - the Brazilian IP Institute has already confirmed the validity of the mark, which was the correct assessment based on date of registration and use.

And no, Gradiente is not just an IP troll - they have been in business for more than 30 years now, and used to produce some really good higher-end audio systems.

They probably seized the opportunity with the "iTrend" back then and are able to cash in now...nothing surprising.

In summary, Apple has only two choices: pay up or get out. It's as simple as that.

p.s.: To the geographically-challenged out there: remember that Brazil is not China as far as IP protection is concerned.

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Indeed...the UK is cheaper, for instance - with far worse weather and women, of course.
Yes. Two girls one cup really showcases the Brazilian women.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:56 PM   #60
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Remove the iPhone references on stuff going to Brazil.
Just call it the "Apple Phone".
Everyone will know it's an iPhone, just don't call it that in Brazil.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 05:00 PM   #61
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Brilliant Trade Mark squatting.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by techwhiz View Post
Remove the iPhone references on stuff going to Brazil.
Just call it the "Apple Phone".
Everyone will know it's an iPhone, just don't call it that in Brazil.
Good Idea.
But there would still be a Manufacturing and Packaging cost. Plus market confusion when a Brazillian iPhone got out of that region.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 05:09 PM   #62
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Sorry Apple, Sorry World

Sorry Guys, sorry Apple. My Country one more time show the face of a rascal one. That Business show that don't have principles and wanna to stork money from other with this bull **** of trademarks. I'm so sorry. The people on this country ask for forgiveness, because this are the one's in charge here, the minority that **** us all. a bunch of liars and thief's .

Ass.: A brazilian guy that try to do things right.

Last edited by climberfx; Feb 5, 2013 at 06:00 PM.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 05:11 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techwhiz View Post
Remove the iPhone references on stuff going to Brazil.
Just call it the "Apple Phone".
Everyone will know it's an iPhone, just don't call it that in Brazil.
What’s the bet that if that happened Americans would try get hold of these “apple phones” for the novelty of having an “apple phone”?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by climberfx View Post
Sorry Guys, sorry Apple. My Country one more time show the face of a rascal one. Gradiente show that don't have principles and wanna to stork money from other with this bull **** of trademarks. I'm so sorry. The people on this country ask for forgiveness, because this are the one's in charge here, the minority that **** us all. a bunch of liars and thief's .

Ass.: A brazilian guy that try to do things right.
Apple can afford it - Don’t you worry about them
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 05:12 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Steve121178 View Post
It's frightening how some people think the world operates.
Yes. It is.

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Old Feb 5, 2013, 05:18 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by MN7119 View Post
Gradiente is a broken company that for 30 years failed to deliver any technology that is worth buying. They found an opportunity to make some money which they never did. It is sad to be a Brazilian when you see things like this.
Broken or not, they have the registered mark - the original Gradiente had to file a Chapter 11, so now IGB manages its assets, simple as that.

If you had the mark duly registered WAY before the iPhone was launched and were a remotely sane person, you'd do exactly the same thing - defend your rights.

So once more: Apple pays, period.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by climberfx View Post
Sorry Guys, sorry Apple. My Country one more time show the face of a rascal one. Gradiente show that don't have principles and wanna to stork money from other with this bull **** of trademarks. I'm so sorry. The people on this country ask for forgiveness, because this are the one's in charge here, the minority that **** us all. a bunch of liars and thief's .

Ass.: A brazilian guy that try to do things right.
Speak for yourself, especially since there is nothing "rascal" about it; too bad you lack knowledge of trademark laws in your own country. So keep trying to do things right, INCLUDING obeying the same kinds of IP laws that every other civilized country in the world has.

That's the main problem of Brazil nowadays - mongrel dog Brazilians who speak of "other" Brazilians as if they were a separate, "better" group of people. For these folks, EVERYTHING the country does is bad.

Not even Germans are like that.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 05:18 PM   #66
Peace
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Originally Posted by BRLawyer View Post
Broken or not, they have the registered mark - the original Gradiente had to file a Chapter 11, so now IGB manages its assets, simple as that.

If you had the mark duly registered WAY before the iPhone was launched and were a remotely sane person, you'd do exactly the same thing - defend your rights.

So once more: Apple pays, period.
I agree. IGB got lucky and won a Lotto .

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Old Feb 5, 2013, 05:25 PM   #67
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Yes. Two girls one cup really showcases the Brazilian women.
The porn industry in the US is still bigger than ours...they invented it all, ya know.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 05:36 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by nick_elt View Post
Patent troll??? are you for real? the legitamately own the trademark and have so since 2000. They havent been pushing apple too hard as they could of since they are selling iphones already in brazil. you fan boys need to open your eyes.
I said "patent troll or not," meaning I don't necessarily agree nor disagree with that statement. I am just stating that they stood to profit from selling a product under that name, and I'm sure they knew this going into it. And now, to me, it seems that they were not as profitable as they had hoped to be selling an Android phone under that name, so they've changed their tune and are "willing to talk" with Apple to make their money that way.

And I do not appreciate being called a fanboy. I've owned both an iPhone and an Android (currently using the Galaxy SIII, and happily). Funny that you accuse me of fanboyism when you yourself are just as zealous as the very fanboys you lash out against.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 05:50 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Peace View Post
I agree. IGB got lucky and won a Lotto .

And Apple can set the price. The only value of this trademark is in the fact that you can sell it to Apple. Nobody in Brazil would fall for it if someone other than Apple tried to sell a phone named "iPhone". But once Apple wants to sell, and has to sell let's say under the name "Apple Phone", the value of that trademark drops to zero. Once the first million "Apple Phones" are sold, Apple isn't going to change the name.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 05:55 PM   #70
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Apple should just buy Brazil.
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Or Bermingham, oh wait, no one wants it even if it's for free
Bermingham? Are you a Chicago teacher?
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 05:58 PM   #71
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And Apple can set the price. The only value of this trademark is in the fact that you can sell it to Apple. Nobody in Brazil would fall for it if someone other than Apple tried to sell a phone named "iPhone". But once Apple wants to sell, and has to sell let's say under the name "Apple Phone", the value of that trademark drops to zero. Once the first million "Apple Phones" are sold, Apple isn't going to change the name.
Do you really think Apple will accept to dillute its brand in one of the most important emerging powers and a main target for the company, as already acknowledged by Tim Cook?

1) IGB sets the price; 2) Apple barks; 3) Apple pays.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 06:01 PM   #72
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Do you really think Apple will accept to dillute its brand in one of the most important emerging powers and a main target for the company, as already acknowledged by Tim Cook?

1) IGB sets the price; 2) Apple barks; 3) Apple pays.
More like

1. IGB sets the price
2. Apple threatens lawsuits that could cost millions. Millions IGB doesn't have.
3. Apple barks
4. Apple pays less than expected by IGB
5. IGB is still happy with the millions they got.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 06:04 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Peace View Post
More like

1. IGB sets the price
2. Apple threatens lawsuits that could cost millions. Millions IGB doesn't have.
3. Apple barks
4. Apple pays less than expected by IGB
5. IGB is still happy with the millions they got.
Oh sure - they will negotiate, but IGB will still get millions; important money for a Chapter 11 company.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 06:20 PM   #74
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I wonder how Brazil feels about Amazon?
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 06:48 PM   #75
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Trademark Patent

If someone or a company owns a registered name or idea then you have to pay to use it.. plain and simple, doesn't matter who you are. Isn't that why Apple and Samsung have spent/waisted billions of dollars on and why Apple patents EVERYTHING? Trademark dahling lol
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