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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:18 PM   #26
petvas
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I think we can pretty much sum it up in this sentence: He is a nerd that never understood what it is to create a product that people love.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:20 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solomani View Post
He's still an employee of the company to this day?

err... what is his job title?
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Originally Posted by Fresh Pie View Post
"The Wonderful Wizard of Woz"

Seriously, I'm also confused by this. He is an employee, yet he has "only very limited contact with the company today". Huh?
Woz has often stated (including in his biography, iWoz), that he remains an employee of Apple and receives a small salary. It's just a symbolic thing. He loves the company he cofounded, and never wants to leave it completely. He does not go into Apple for work, nor does he have any job responsibilities.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:21 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by spiderman0616 View Post
In some ways, he's right. There are things on other phones that aren't on the iPhone. Apple makes great products that are, in some peoples' minds, missing features that other similar products have.

HOWEVER

1) I know Woz made the Apple II back in the day and that's his pride and joy, but what significant insight does he really have into the industry these days? What has he really done for me or Apple in the last 20 years? 30 years? I think he's looking at this situation like an extremely geeky user, not an every day joe. A lot of the reason geeks like Android over the iPhone is that you can mess with it. He might be looking at it from that perspective.
The difference is he actually uses other products and tries them out and is able to compare in the real world through actual usage whereas someone like you probably only uses one product and may try another for a couple minutes in passing at a store or touch a friends.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:21 PM   #29
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What he said was "in features." Fallen behind *in features.* which we all know - apple has never been one to cram every single feature into a product just to say they have it.

Fallen behind in user experience would be a very different thing, and is not what he said.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:22 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petvas View Post
I think we can pretty much sum it up in this sentence: He is a nerd that never understood what it is to create a product that people love.
You realize you're talking about the guy who almost single handedly created the Apple I and the hugely successful Apple II, right? That's not to discount the contribution of Steve Jobs and others which were absolutely instrumental in Apple's success as a company, but Woz personally designed both of those products, and people very much loved (and still love) them.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:25 PM   #31
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:28 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solomani View Post
He's still an employee of the company to this day?

err... what is his job title?
The Woz.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjs862 View Post
For some reason, I can tell I wouldn't like this guy.
Because he doesn't blindly like products just because the company he was heavily involved with in the 80's made them?
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:28 PM   #33
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I think this year will be a good indicator for Apple's future. If you think about it last year was pretty much house cleaning with the management shakeup. This will be the year where you will see if those management changes are going to really make a difference.

As far as hardware goes I don't know what people can possibly expect from upcoming tablets and phones. Apple set a major standard when they released the iPhone and the hardware has started to reach a saturation point (the form factor won't drastically change, it can only get a bigger screen, thinner design etc.) This applies to all the companies. Basically what i'm saying is don't expect to be blown away by the hardware like when the iPhone first came out or when the iPhone 4 released.

The innovation for Apple is going to rely heavily on the software and iCloud integration. Which is why people should really wait for iOS 7 before writing off Apple for good. I really don't know what a iOS designed by Jony would look like but i'm definitely excited. Hopefully this will also see the end presentations being focused around Siri being able dictate a post to Facebook or Twitter. That is the most useless feature i've ever seen.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:30 PM   #34
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Sorry Woz, I like you and all, but you've lost your credibility, even before you said that Win Mobile was the best phone and that Metro was amazing.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:31 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by spiderman0616 View Post
2) Apple will release features when they feel it's the right time--not any sooner or later than that. Just because the tinkerers feel that something is "missing" doesn't mean that it's something most people would use.
I used to think the same thing. Then Apple released Maps. I hope Maps was a temporary lapse in judgement instead of the beginning of a trend. Actually, I've noticed the same kind of half-baked releases of Passbook and Siri, as well.

Up until the release of Siri, Passbook, and Maps, I could legitimately say that Apple would let new features "simmer" in Cupertino for a year or so while other companies rushed those same features to the market even though they were largely subpar experiences. Then, Apple would release their take on the same thing and completely blow the competition out of the water. I want Apple to do that again; but Maps, Passbook, and Siri haven't exactly blown the competition away.

I, and I suspect many others, would benefit from being able to set default apps for e-mail, web browsing, navigation, etc. This ability needs to come in iOS 7. What's the point of having the biggest and best App Store on the planet if users can't download the apps they want and set those apps as system defaults instead of being chained to Apple's own apps?

All this wasn't really directed toward you. I'm just thinking out loud.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:31 PM   #36
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Please remove a couple of 'at's' from that last long run-on sentence/paragraph.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:32 PM   #37
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:32 PM   #38
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It's interesting. Woz aside, the trend he is talking about makes me think back to the mid-90's, when Apple had a similar dilemma with Windows. After 10 years, Windows had caught up to the Mac, and the Mac OS looked dated and behind the times. After a lot of searching, Apple finally acquired NeXT for their operating system (and Steve Jobs) and a few years later we had OS X, which was yet another revolution in its time. (Watch the keynote where Jobs unveils all the UI changes if you haven't already - it's fascinating).

It's interesting to think that a point might be coming where this could happen for iOS.

Of course, this is a different situation. Apple is more in Microsoft's position when it comes to being more embedded in enterprise, government, etc. SO many organizations use iPads now, and have just trained people within the last few years, that Apple doesn'tt have the freedom to radically change the OS.

As much as we techy consumers (Woz included) would love to see change and to be wowed by Apple again with something completely new, organizations need consistency. Radical change doesn't seem like the right decision at this point in time.

And if you just look at the current iPhone on its own merits and how it works in day-to-day use, without comparing it to the previous gen iPhone, it's an excellent phone. It's excellent because the original was excellent, and they don't have to change a lot between versions, other than bringing their hardware up to date.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:36 PM   #39
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Behind or not, the iPhone. 5 is an amazing device.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:50 PM   #40
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Phones are outdated in general.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:52 PM   #41
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Failure in the smartphone/tablet market would be good for us people who enjoy good Apple products. It's the only means for getting really good new products from Apple. OTOH, if they can keep continuous success in this market, we'll continue to see the same products we've been getting from Apple for the last 5 years.

So, I'd like that Woz is right here, because I'm a fan of good Apple products, and not a fan of everything that has the Apple logo on it.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:52 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jugney View Post
It's interesting. Woz aside, the trend he is talking about makes me think back to the mid-90's, when Apple had a similar dilemma with Windows. After 10 years, Windows had caught up to the Mac, and the Mac OS looked dated and behind the times. After a lot of searching, Apple finally acquired NeXT for their operating system (and Steve Jobs) and a few years later we had OS X, which was yet another revolution in its time. (Watch the keynote where Jobs unveils all the UI changes if you haven't already - it's fascinating).

It's interesting to think that a point might be coming where this could happen for iOS.

Of course, this is a different situation. Apple is more in Microsoft's position when it comes to being more embedded in enterprise, government, etc. SO many organizations use iPads now, and have just trained people within the last few years, that Apple doesn'tt have the freedom to radically change the OS.

As much as we techy consumers (Woz included) would love to see change and to be wowed by Apple again with something completely new, organizations need consistency. Radical change doesn't seem like the right decision at this point in time.

And if you just look at the current iPhone on its own merits and how it works in day-to-day use, without comparing it to the previous gen iPhone, it's an excellent phone. It's excellent because the original was excellent, and they don't have to change a lot between versions, other than bringing their hardware up to date.
Those of us who were old enough to understand computers know that it's a fallacy to bring up Windows versus the Mac as some historical event in which Apple's colossal blunder that had gotten it overtaken.

Here are are facts

Apple dominant computing platform even in the late 80's was the Apple II and Apple III. The Mac never attained the 20% and more marketshare. DOS was the dominate platform and Microsoft was making money hand over fist with it. With Windows they merely had to emulate the GUI of the Mac to a lesser degree as a shell over DOS. By version 3.1 they had something most consumers could utilize.

Contrast that today with the iPhone which commands 20% marketshare worldwide and 50% in USA. We're also talking numeric numbers than make the PC sales of 30 years ago pale in comparison.

To knock Apple off its perch today is going to take a very significant sea change. Samsung isn't going to do it so long as they are hawking the same Android OS that everyone is.

Apple really isn't behind in mobile. Where they need work on immediately is in their services.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:57 PM   #43
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Man all you guys insisting Woz is wrong and that Apple is still the best at "user experience" or not behind in mobile, seriously have your head in the sand.

My Nexus 4 begs to differ with everything you said. Android 4.2 makes iOS look ridiculously bad. I have no desire to go back, which is why I sold my iPhone 5, and not a day goes by that I actually miss it. My GF also made the switch from the iPhone 5 to Galaxy S3 and after a few days she told me "iPhone seems like it's for idiots" and she is not even a tech person! She was afraid to try something else initially as well. Well after she had the "user experience" of Jelly Bean, it was all over for iOS.

So yeah, people still thinking that Apple is doing a good job in this space have to wake up and smell the coffee. They aren't.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:58 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by jm001 View Post
Do you have personal connections with him that you know what he is and isnt working on? Woz has never been the one to get into the spotlight and talk about upcoming projects. He may certainly be designing or helping design products (circuitry etc. ). Who knows but dont make some blanket statement that he does nothing except speaking engagements. There are many of us who dont think his word is gospel but rather he's expressing a thought many of us harbour.
From what I know from people that work at Apple and work in the electronics and computer industry, he doesn't do much other other speaking engagements at this point. Friend was a member of his Segway polo league and also said he doesn't do much these days other than some consulting occasionally.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 01:02 PM   #45
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He has an ******* err i mean opinion.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 01:03 PM   #46
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Just like all fandroids....

So Woz, has Apple fallen behind or have they allowed competition to catch up? If I'm running a race and I'm ahead and then a competitor catches up to me, I'm not behind him am I? Which way is it? Is Apple behind, or have other companies just caught up with them? Maybe I'm just a simpleton but you can't reinvent the wheel every 12 months. Hell you can't even do it every few years. Of course competitors will copy and catch up, they are building phones after all.

And beyond that, I hear how Apple has fallen behind the competition and how they have failed to innovate, but no one ever gives any examples. They just say they are behind... in what? Do Samsung phones call people the iPhone won't? Last time I checked these phones roughly do the same thing. Is the new SIV going to be innovative? Bigger screen, faster processor, better camera... sound familiar? Yet if thats an Apple upgrade they have failed. If its a Samsung update its freaking the greatest thing since sliced bread. There is clearly a double standard here for Apple. But thats ok, they aren't going under any time soon, so even if I'm the last guy on earth with an iPhone, I'll still have a superior product.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 01:11 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by TennisandMusic View Post
Man all you guys insisting Woz is wrong and that Apple is still the best at "user experience" or not behind in mobile, seriously have your head in the sand.

My Nexus 4 begs to differ with everything you said. Android 4.2 makes iOS look ridiculously bad. I have no desire to go back, which is why I sold my iPhone 5, and not a day goes by that I actually miss it. My GF also made the switch from the iPhone 5 to Galaxy S3 and after a few days she told me "iPhone seems like it's for idiots" and she is not even a tech person! She was afraid to try something else initially as well. Well after she had the "user experience" of Jelly Bean, it was all over for iOS.

So yeah, people still thinking that Apple is doing a good job in this space have to wake up and smell the coffee. They aren't.
That's ok because I've never read one thing from you that made me want to follow anything you do. I don't care what phone you or your GF uses. Maybe the two of you would be better suited on some Android boards where you can leave us "idiots" in peace.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 01:14 PM   #48
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Unless iOS7 is something super revolutionary, I think Apple will sell the same sort of number of phones, or at least the number they sell each new generation, won't increase like it has the last few times, if that makes sense?
I love iOS, but something new has to happen, just to distinguish itself
This is exactly what i've been thinking. I think they will for sure gain new customers but i also think that they will lose people that have had iPhones for a long time and in recent years getting bored with iOS.

Not to say iOS should be entertaining, but there are some definite features that are missing that would be great to have and are currently on other OS's.

I for one am one of those people who will be leaving if iOS 7 doesn't blow me away with something great.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 01:18 PM   #49
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Oh yeah, they indeed have fallen behind. Software even more than the hardware, iOS is just lacking innovation for years now. Android on the other hand has made some real astonishing progress, especially with Jelly Bean. iOS simply has become so boring.

I'm right now on the edge of replacing my 3GS and I never hesitated for one second that my next phone is gonna be powered by Android.
You're on a 4 year old phone and you complain Apple has fallen behind compared to newer phone

I do agree there are some small software & aesthetic improvements that can be done to iOS but as far as hardware they are fine.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 01:22 PM   #50
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This is exactly what i've been thinking. I think they will for sure gain new customers but i also think that they will lose people that have had iPhones for a long time and in recent years getting bored with iOS.

Not to say iOS should be entertaining, but there are some definite features that are missing that would be great to have and are currently on other OS's.

I for one am one of those people who will be leaving if iOS 7 doesn't blow me away with something great.
People have been saying this for the last 3 years. None of us individuals matter. iOS 7 doesn't have to be revolutionary. The biggest growth market is China and other smaller but emerging markets.

If you're bored with iOS 6 now you may as jump. There is nothing coming that is going to amaze you if you're not already pushing the limits of what the OS can do.
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