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Old Feb 18, 2013, 08:57 AM   #1
AlbertEinstein
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Running OS X 10.4 on new Mac Mini

As some of you are aware of, my iMac exploded. So i went and ordered myself a brand new Mac Mini, and now i am having some second thoughts.

You see, my old iMac dual-booted OSX 10.8 and 10.4. The problem is that the new Macs can only run 10.8 (if I'm wrong don't hesitate to correct me) and as far as i can see, no-one has documented anything about running 10.4.

Q: Why would you even want to put such an old operating system on your computer?

A: My line of work requires me to use Tiger. Simple as that.

Any help (and then i really mean any help) is appreciated!
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 09:04 AM   #2
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The earliest version of OSX that the 2012 macs can run is Mountain Lion.

The older versions simply do not have the device drivers for the Ivy Bridge chipsets. There's no way to run 10.4 on any current mac.

Edit: and when I say no way, there is absolutely no way, no hacks, not tricks no nothing.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 09:14 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertEinstein View Post
Q: Why would you even want to put such an old operating system on your computer?

A: My line of work requires me to use Tiger. Simple as that.

Any help (and then i really mean any help) is appreciated!
Is it to run Tiger itself, or Classic Mode?
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 09:22 AM   #4
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What's wrong with your Pismo?
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 09:46 AM   #5
Giuly
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Buy a MacPro1,1 instead?
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 09:49 AM   #6
chrfr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertEinstein View Post
A: My line of work requires me to use Tiger. Simple as that.
What does your line of work do when all the obsolete hardware fails and you're left with no way to use an obsolete operating system?
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 11:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertEinstein View Post
Q: Why would you even want to put such an old operating system on your computer?
A: My line of work requires me to use Tiger. Simple as that.
Then really, you need to:
1. (short-term): buy a second hand Mac that still runs Tiger;
2. (long-term): buy a brand new Mac and work out how to migrate your data to newer apps.

As said above, you need to prepare yourself for the days when Tiger hardware will no longer function. (Not far off.)

There is almost no line of work that doesn't have better, more fully-featured software now than was available when Tiger was released.
If you are using some old program that only runs on Tiger, and all your data is in some proprietary format, then you need to ask yourself what are you going to do when you can't run that app anymore.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 12:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertEinstein View Post
As some of you are aware of, my iMac exploded. So i went and ordered myself a brand new Mac Mini, and now i am having some second thoughts.

You see, my old iMac dual-booted OSX 10.8 and 10.4. The problem is that the new Macs can only run 10.8 (if I'm wrong don't hesitate to correct me) and as far as i can see, no-one has documented anything about running 10.4.

Q: Why would you even want to put such an old operating system on your computer?

A: My line of work requires me to use Tiger. Simple as that.

Any help (and then i really mean any help) is appreciated!
How about a virtual machine....

http://blog.michael.kuron-germany.de...re-fusion-4-0/

Never tried it, but I guess worth a shot. Nothing made in the last 3+ years will natively run Tiger.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 12:23 PM   #9
AlbertEinstein
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As for the outdated OS; i can't do much. My department is forced to use 10.4 for certain things. There is no way that anyone would finance the amount of work that is needed to port it.

Would it be possible to install Snow Leopard then? I know it's a long shot, but otherwise i will be required to buy an old Macbook.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 12:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertEinstein View Post
As for the outdated OS; i can't do much. My department is forced to use 10.4 for certain things. There is no way that anyone would finance the amount of work that is needed to port it.

Would it be possible to install Snow Leopard then? I know it's a long shot, but otherwise i will be required to buy an old Macbook.
As previously stated, only 10.8 will run. Snow Leopard is 10.6.

I'm curious: What software are you using that is too expensive to update so it will run on current hardware? Is it a custom program that was written eons ago? It simply makes no sense to be tied to a program that is only compatible with an out-of-date operating system.

At some point your company will be forced to do something because reliable hardware will be difficult, if not impossible to locate...
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertEinstein View Post
As for the outdated OS; i can't do much. My department is forced to use 10.4 for certain things. There is no way that anyone would finance the amount of work that is needed to port it.

Would it be possible to install Snow Leopard then? I know it's a long shot, but otherwise i will be required to buy an old Macbook.
You can't run an OS version that is earlier than the hardware. It won't have the necessary code to run that hardware.
You will need to buy a 2006 or Mid-2007 MacBook. A Late-2007 MB is too late, as it came with Leopard. If you need the Classic environment, then you will need a PPC G4 Powerbook.

I'm surprised that a business would not be prepared to invest in maintaining their ability to work into the future. If they require you to have a computer compatible with a seven-year-old OS, then they should pay for it.

Sorry to be so blunt, but your company's position is unsustainable. Are they still using Classic Mac OS software? There are alternative emulators that can run in Mountain Lion, such as SheepShaver.

What is the software?

Last edited by benwiggy; Feb 18, 2013 at 01:33 PM.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:37 PM   #12
mseth
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Try Parallels, it should let you run OS X Tiger within OS X Mountain Lion. They claim that it can run Leopard, Snow Leopard, Lion and Mountain Lion. Tiger might work in Parallels, you'll just need a Tiger DVD. Try it with the Parallels demo before you buy the software.

If you're using classic Rosetta apps, then Snow Leopard within Parallels is the best option. Don't buy old hardware, Parallels can run older versions of OS X within Mountain Lion. It's fast, fluid and you can share anything between Snow Leopard and Mountain Lion. You can use it in full screen and it'll run almost as smooth as if you're dual booting.

Last edited by mseth; Feb 18, 2013 at 01:44 PM.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:56 PM   #13
chrfr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mseth View Post
Try Parallels, it should let you run OS X Tiger within OS X Mountain Lion.
The problem is that an Intel version of Tiger was never sold, so you're on your own as to finding an installer from an early Mac, and then circumventing the feature that locks the installer to that specific model of Mac.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 02:04 PM   #14
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I too would like to know what software requires tiger. Does it require PPC? If yes then get an older system running 10.6 and use rosetta. Does it require OS 9? Then just get a g4 mini for less than 100 bucks with classic and stack them and use a kvm switch.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 03:00 PM   #15
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"The problem is that an Intel version of Tiger was never sold, so you're on your own as to finding an installer from an early Mac, and then circumventing the feature that locks the installer to that specific model of Mac."

An "Intel version" of Tiger may never have been _sold_ (as a standalone package), but there are "Intel versions" of 10.4. I have one installed on my 2007 white Intel iMac.

Just because the original poster can't _buy_ it, means it's not out there to be found and had.

All that's required is some "lookin' around"….
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 03:04 PM   #16
jchase2057
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishrrman View Post
"The problem is that an Intel version of Tiger was never sold, so you're on your own as to finding an installer from an early Mac, and then circumventing the feature that locks the installer to that specific model of Mac."

An "Intel version" of Tiger may never have been _sold_ (as a standalone package), but there are "Intel versions" of 10.4. I have one installed on my 2007 white Intel iMac.

Just because the original poster can't _buy_ it, means it's not out there to be found and had.

All that's required is some "lookin' around"….
Getting the OS is the easy part. He wants to run it on unsupported hardware.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 03:05 PM   #17
Giuly
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There are Tiger Server DVDs, which happen to support both Intel and PowerPC. But a quick look at 'mac os x tiger for intel x86' on the googly web should sort this out as well.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 04:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertEinstein View Post
Running OS X 10.4 on new Mac Mini
Only in a VM. I've Mac OS X 10.4.11 (Intel) in a VMware Fusion VM. I installed first Mac OS X 10.5.6 on one virtual partition, then started this version in the VM, installed Mac OS X 10.4.4 (a CD/DVD from one of the first Intel iMacs) on a second virtual partition, installed the Mac OS X 10.4.11 (Intel) combo update over the installed version of Mac OS X 10.4.4 (without a restart), then i selected the new Mac OS X 10.4.11 installation on the second partition as my startup disk. I removed the machine check from the Mac OS X 10.4.4 installation package, because this was a machine specific version of Mac OS X 10.4.4 (for iMacs). No versions of VMware Fusion support OS X < 10.4.11 in a VM, and the VMware Tools are incompatible with Mac OS X 10.4.x. That means you must modify:
/Library/Preferences/SystemConfiguration/com.apple.Boot.plist
if you want a fixed screen resolution & other settings. AFAIK, VMware Fusion + Tiger in a VM support both boot modes (BIOS and EFI modes).
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 04:26 PM   #19
AlbertEinstein
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I am not allowed to tell you what software my department uses.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I tought you couldn't run the client versions of OS X on virtualization software due to Apples licensing?
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 06:32 PM   #20
chrfr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertEinstein View Post
I am not allowed to tell you what software my department uses.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I tought you couldn't run the client versions of OS X on virtualization software due to Apples licensing?
That is correct for 10.4 through 10.6 client software, and if I'm not mistaken only 10.5 Server and later allow legal use in a VM. You would need to get the 10.4 Server license agreement somehow to see if it permits use as a virtual machine. It may be that the OS X 10.4 Server license predates the notion of using it in a virtual machine so it may not be addressed at all.

In the absence of more information, you really would be well served to underline to your management the precarious business position they are in. It is not a workable business model to rely on obsolete and unavailable hardware to do a job. Mac OS is not like Windows in that it's impossible to just indefinitely keep using an old version on newer hardware, and it can't be treated as if that's an option.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Retrofire View Post
I removed the machine check from the Mac OS X 10.4.4 installation package, because this was a machine specific version of Mac OS X 10.4.4 (for iMacs).
It is worth noting that this violates the software license, particularly if it's to be installed on a machine which never shipped with that version of OS. If the OP's use requires some secrecy, it's reasonable to assume that they may also pay attention to such things.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 06:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertEinstein View Post
I am not allowed to tell you what software my department uses.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I tought you couldn't run the client versions of OS X on virtualization software due to Apples licensing?
I'd read the license carefully. The way I have understood Apple's licenses is that the license allowed you to run _one_ copy of the OS on _one_ Apple labeled (nowadays "Apple branded") computer. I don't think virtualisation is every mentioned.

Obviously if you run say 10.7 in a VM on a Mac with 10.7 then that's two copies of the OS, not one. And if your VM runs on a PC, then it's not on an Apple labeled computer.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 06:44 PM   #22
chrfr
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I don't think virtualisation is every mentioned.

Obviously if you run say 10.7 in a VM on a Mac with 10.7 then that's two copies of the OS, not one. And if your VM runs on a PC, then it's not on an Apple labeled computer.
Gnasher, sounds like you're the one who needs to carefully read the license agreements.

From the Apple Lion license agreement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple
(2.B.iii) you are granted a limited, non-transferable, non-exclusive license: to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 06:54 PM   #23
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I am not allowed to tell you what software my department uses.
Sounds like a typical government operation... what a surprise!
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 05:27 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by paulrbeers View Post
How about a virtual machine....

http://blog.michael.kuron-germany.de...re-fusion-4-0/

Never tried it, but I guess worth a shot. Nothing made in the last 3+ years will natively run Tiger.
After communicating with that German blogger about his experiences, he admitted that he was only able to install Tiger on VMWare Fusion v2 (and not on v4.x). I repeated his experience just to confirm that it would work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertEinstein View Post
Would it be possible to install Snow Leopard then? I know it's a long shot, but otherwise i will be required to buy an old Macbook.
YES: Installing Snow Leopard (with Rosetta) into Parallels for use in Lion or Mountain Lion

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertEinstein View Post
Correct me if i'm wrong, but I tought you couldn't run the client versions of OS X on virtualization software due to Apples licensing?
There is a common Urban Myth that Snow Leopard cannot be virtualized for use in Lion or Mt. Lion on Macintosh hardware. That myth has been debunked over the last year or so...
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 08:25 AM   #25
chrfr
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Originally Posted by MichaelLAX View Post
There is a common Urban Myth that Snow Leopard cannot be virtualized for use in Lion or Mt. Lion on Macintosh hardware. That myth has been debunked over the last year or so...
Again, not an urban myth. The license terms and the technical ability to install a non-server version of 10.6 and earlier are two separate things.
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