iPhone 5S to Include Both Fingerprint Sensor and NFC?

If Apple DOES include on the iPhone 5S an NFC radio/antenna system that works with the Sony-developed FeliCa NFC system and the Isis mobile payment system that has begun field trials in the USA, Apple will take back much of the market share lost to Android cellphones.

You can guarantee that millions of cellphone users in South Korea and Japan using "feature" phones with built-in mobile payment systems would switch to the iPhone 5S in a big way; this addresses the biggest failing of the iPhone, namely the lack of NFC.

koban4max said:

yeah... we need iphone to go mute if it is faced down. ios is getting old...reinventing time.

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RIMM found out the hard way that you can only keep things the same for so long before you get passed and then playing catch up.

There's only so much you can do with hardware at this point. Adding NFC would be a nice add on. Phones have got to the point to where they're faster than the causal user will ever need. Casual users don't care about processor speeds, they care about what they can see.

iOS needs a face lift. You can see the trends here and on other boards that people are wanting a change. Now you have tech writers starting to talk about Apple. Yes it's natural to hate the guy on top but Apple really has brought it on themselves.

All but one person I know who had an iPhone4 or 4S says they wish they hadn't used their upgrade.

Samsung is making moves in the smartphone market. Android is getting better each release.

daneoni said:

Basically, I want them to copy Meego Harmattan and webOS. Mostly the former.

1. Improved multitasking. The current implementation is clunky. I want decent mini views of everything running like Expose/Mission Control and the option to close all at once. If i have multiple windows of the same app stick them together like a deck of cards. webOS and Meego have the best multitasking implementations to date. Apple should copy that.

2. The app-centric UI is ancient. I search for what i want to launch now and would rather just take a quick glance at the basics (social, calendar, and messaging), which means scrolling through pages upon pages of apps on the home screen to get anything done is archaic. Throw them in a folder or separate screen and clear the main homescreen/desktop for more important stuff.

3. Live feeds/home screen. Let me know at a quick glance whats happening with my calendar, twitter, facebook, messaging etc without having to launch each app accordingly. Another nod to the way Meego/N9 does this.

4. Quick access to settings. They already copied Android's notification concept might as well finish the job and add quick toggles for Wi-Fi, BT, Airplane, Brightness etc. or copy webOS's implementation by putting a little gear in the top right that drops down and reveals them.

Right now doing something in iOS takes 3-5 taps instead of 1-2 and it gets tiresome and boring fast.

Why can't i have something like this

Feeds/Notifications, Apps, Multitasking. Done. Simple, quick and functional

Instead of this chaos

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As a former N9 user, I couldn't agree more. Prob the best UI/UX I've ever used...... But, not gonna happen. One can only dream

Exio said:

For the sake of moving technology forward I hope apple finally implements NFC. That way I can use google wallet more.

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What stops you from using it now? Why did google release "google wallet"?

Syk said:

RIMM found out the hard way that you can only keep things the same for so long before you get passed and then playing catch up.

There's only so much you can do with hardware at this point. Adding NFC would be a nice add on. Phones have got to the point to where they're faster than the causal user will ever need. Casual users don't care about processor speeds, they care about what they can see.

iOS needs a face lift. You can see the trends here and on other boards that people are wanting a change. Now you have tech writers starting to talk about Apple. Yes it's natural to hate the guy on top but Apple really has brought it on themselves.

All but one person I know who had an iPhone4 or 4S says they wish they hadn't used their upgrade.

Samsung is making moves in the smartphone market. Android is getting better each release.

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The problem is that technology gets old fast

dec. said:

What stops you from using it now? Why did google release "google wallet"?

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Just to present another Google thing

But if to be honest I don't trust NFC technology, and I won't do it for at least incoming several years when security is good enough.

aerok said:

Preprogrammed schedule does not work for me as I have a irregular work schedule. As for geofencing, like I mentioned previously, it is not precise enough for different rooms in a house. User intereaction? A single tap on the tag with a touch on the screen isn't much of an interaction.

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mtliveson said:

I am not sure about anyone else, but I have multiple RFID cards for either work or transit. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to use your phone to access all of those places at once?

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So, if you both don't want to use geofencing or can't use geofencing because it is not accurate enough - why is there a need for NFC for the stuff you want to do, like different settings for different situations?

As i see it, you both are using Android devices, the system where everything can be tweaked to one's liking.

Isn't there a widget for the stuff you want to do?

If you want a "GPS ON, Wireless OFF, Ringtone MUTE+VIBRATE" setting when you're going to work, why the need to affix a NFC tag to your door (and another one that's used to turn all of these things on again when you return home) to do this?

Can't you just add a button to the homescreen or notification center that does this stuff?

Why the need for NFC?

NFC is absolutely not necessary in this case.

And if you're in a hurry and forget to use the tag at the door, using a widget solution would be much easier to use than setting all the settings by hand.

Or telling Siri - or whatever voice technology the phone you're using is using - that you're home, so that it can automatically switch all the settings. Without the need to go back to the door, if you forgot to use the tag.

SactoGuy18 said:

If Apple DOES include on the iPhone 5S an NFC radio/antenna system that works with the Sony-developed FeliCa NFC system and the Isis mobile payment system that has begun field trials in the USA, Apple will take back much of the market share lost to Android cellphones.

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Apple lost marketshare due to a few reasons:

If you're the leader or have invented a market (see iPad), everytime another company enters the market, you'll lose marketshare. Even if that company's product would turn out to be crap (you probably won't know this, but in 2010 there was some tablet hyped as the iPad killer in Germany, the WeTab), you lost marketshare due to all those poor souls who bought your competitor's product.

You can buy Android phones without contract for less than 100 dollars and tablets for less than 150 dollars.

Apple isn't even interested in those markets, because they are not profitable enough for a company that has a profit of up to 13 billion dollars per quarter.

If they released a 150$ iPhone Cheap (without contract) and made 50$ profit of each device sold and sold 50 million devices per quarter - that would make them 2.5 billion dollars per quarter, which would be only 30% of their 4th quarter 2012 profits, even though it would nearly triple the number of iPhones they sold in Q4 2012.

Sure, 2.5 billion dollars sounds like a lot if you got a lemonade stand, but it's not a lot if you're Apple (and just crushed the whole cheaper Android device segment by releasing a 150$ iPhone).

SILen(e said:

So, if you both don't want to use geofencing or can't use geofencing because it is not accurate enough - why is there a need for NFC for the stuff you want to do, like different settings for different situations?

As i see it, you both are using Android devices, the system where everything can be tweaked to one's liking.

Isn't there a widget for the stuff you want to do?

If you want a "GPS ON, Wireless OFF, Ringtone MUTE+VIBRATE" setting when you're going to work, why the need to affix a NFC tag to your door (and another one that's used to turn all of these things on again when you return home) to do this?

Can't you just add a button to the homescreen or notification center that does this stuff?

Why the need for NFC?

NFC is absolutely not necessary in this case.

And if you're in a hurry and forget to use the tag at the door, using a widget solution would be much easier to use than setting all the settings by hand.

Or telling Siri - or whatever voice technology the phone you're using is using - that you're home, so that it can automatically switch all the settings. Without the need to go back to the door, if you forgot to use the tag.

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I use NFC because it's there. Why not?

NFC is faster than widgets because it does everything at once by changing profile. With widgets, you have to individually switch off/on one thing at time.

Siri/Google Voice, no such option exists to say you're home and it sets everything for you. When it does, I'll see if it's an better alternatives. I still think NFC would work better since they are no chances of the devie understanding you wrong.

You seem to try way to hard to justify why people do not need NFC. Same can be said for any option on any cellphone.

Why should we have iMessage when clearly SMS/MMS works?
Why should we have a camera on the phone when my cheap P&S camera can take way better pictures?
Why have widgets when I can just open the app to get the info?

It just doesn't matter. The option is there, we use it. I was just refuting against someone saying that nobody uses NFC. Really have no clue why people like you are set to undermine the use of NFC for me. Why do you even care so much?

aerok said:

NFC is faster than widgets because it does everything at once by changing profile. With widgets, you have to individually switch off/on one thing at time.

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So why isn't there a widget or another way to change profiles?
(Which is what i meant, not changing each setting manually with a separate widget)

You don't need NFC to change profiles.

Changing profiles is not something that has been only available since the dawn of NFC, it has been used for years (just think Notebooks changing power settings when you plug in the charging cable).

You can use schedules, geofencing, buttons, barcodes (remember how paying stuff at Starbucks was totally impossible with an iPhone without NFC (<<sarcasm>>) - well, until Passbook made it possible - without NFC!)... hell, you could even use shake patterns to change profiles, shake your smartphone to change your profile and if you dance the Macarena holding your smartphone in your hand, it know you want the "At Work"-settings enabled.

Not all of these (and the many more possible solutions) are available on iOS - or even Android - but they all would be possible and would allow you to change profiles without using NFC.

Both of these will NOT happen...

tekboi said:

Both of these will NOT happen...

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Maybe not on the 5S but it wouldn't surprise me to see one or the other on the generation after

SILen(e said:

So why isn't there a widget or another way to change profiles?
(Which is what i meant, not changing each setting manually with a separate widget)

You don't need NFC to change profiles.

Changing profiles is not something that has been only available since the dawn of NFC, it has been used for years (just think Notebooks changing power settings when you plug in the charging cable).

You can use schedules, geofencing, buttons, barcodes (remember how paying stuff at Starbucks was totally impossible with an iPhone without NFC (<<sarcasm>>) - well, until Passbook made it possible - without NFC!)... hell, you could even use shake patterns to change profiles, shake your smartphone to change your profile and if you dance the Macarena holding your smartphone in your hand, it know you want the "At Work"-settings enabled.

Not all of these (and the many more possible solutions) are available on iOS - or even Android - but they all would be possible and would allow you to change profiles without using NFC.

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Wow you still don't get it. I never said it was a need. I am aware profiles can be changed other ways but I prefer using NFC, is it that hard for you to understand? It's there, I like it, I use it. Can I be any clearer?

I don't need your useless sarcasm, your lack of comprehension is annoying enough, thank you.

aerok said:

Geo fencing does not work as well, different profiles between different rooms in the house is not possible with geo fencing. I don't care how many people do it, I'm just saying I do it, I use NFC and they are not alternatives to it for me.

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aerok said:

Wow you still don't get it. I never said it was a need. I am aware profiles can be changed other ways but I prefer using NFC, is it that hard for you to understand? It's there, I like it, I use it. Can I be any clearer?

I don't need your useless sarcasm, your lack of comprehension is annoying enough, thank you.

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There are many other option to achieve the things you are using NFC for - and most of them were already available before the first Android device ever got NFC.

And what do you do if you ever forget to touch the NFC tag with your device while you leave your house, for example because you're in a hurry?

SILen(e said:

There are many other option to achieve the things you are using NFC for - and most of them were already available before the first Android device ever got NFC.

And what do you do if you ever forget to touch the NFC tag with your device while you leave your house, for example because you're in a hurry?

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LOL you still don't get it. Why are so set on criticizing my use of NFC? I like using it, obviously you don't, fine by me. You do not need to explain alternatives and situations where NFC might not be ideal, I live through them, not imagine them like you do.

aerok said:

I use NFC because it's there. Why not?

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Because sense NFC is already in some credit cards and people have easily hack by bumping into a person. NFC is dangerous right now!

satcomer said:

Because sense NFC is already in some credit cards and people have easily hack by bumping into a person. NFC is dangerous right now!

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Not the same on phones, you have to accept the connection.

Mr Fusion said:

Never quite understood the purpose of NFC. Pulling my wallet out of my pocket and taking a card out isn't an arduous task I'm longing to rid myself of.

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For one, you don't need to fumble for cards.

And secondly, it is an issue if you're running to catch a train.

Perhaps a problem is that NFC is not widespread in the US? The US is behind on NFC technology and therefore Apple employees may not realize its importance or value yet.

satcomer said:

Because sense NFC is already in some credit cards and people have easily hack by bumping into a person. NFC is dangerous right now!

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No, with NFC the communication channel would be encrypted, i.e. with SSL. On top of that, the application developer would be wise to implement some sort of mutual authentication. Unless the scanner (bumper) has the private keys to the system, he won't be able to steal information from that particular NFC enabled app. And if the private key HAS been leaked... well, that system is SOL.

But think of it this way, Hong Kong's Octopus card has been in use for 15+ years and the private keys have not been compromised yet.

Possible 5s capability

I would like to think the 5s will have a fingerprint sensor on the home button and (due to the images of the vibrating home buttons--need link) the button will vibrate if the print is incorrect

SmileyBlast! said:

NFC is just prone to a bad user experience. It's also a security risk. It's got no killer application accept Point of Sale and has no real adoption.

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You sir, are so close minded it's amazing. I have given NFC tags to 3 friends, and they each came up with tasks the tag accomplished better than anything before it. But what can you expect, you likely own one of those awful hipster iThings anyway.

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DipDog3 said:

Yes, instead of charging for new iPhones, they should be charging for iOS updates. We will have the iPhone 5 forever!!!

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Bahhaa, you Apple guys are something else. They need to include a re-creation of Steve Jobs p, so u all can finally do what you've been dying to do forever and suck Apples 8-

SILen(e said:

And what do you do if you ever forget to touch the NFC tag with your device while you leave your house, for example because you're in a hurry?

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Good point. I'd say it would be more feasible to have a system of Bluetooth devices that lock all your doors, unless you don't want them to. Your absence from the house would be detected by the fact that a door is open, then the Bluetooth signal strengths measured from all devices that can see the phone dropped below a threshold. My reasoning is that if you're leaving the house, you would go through a door, the signal strengths should get weaker as you walk away.

My guess is that apple will come up with their own take on NFC. They won't include NFC, but instead introduce features which replicate those functions, thereby giving users the more commonly sought benefits without any of the perceived risks and inconveniences, or allowing competitors to piggyback on their technology.

I mean, if you want to share photos, there's already shared photostream. No need for NFC there.

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aerok said:

I use NFC because it's there. Why not?

NFC is faster than widgets because it does everything at once by changing profile. With widgets, you have to individually switch off/on one thing at time.

Siri/Google Voice, no such option exists to say you're home and it sets everything for you. When it does, I'll see if it's an better alternatives. I still think NFC would work better since they are no chances of the devie understanding you wrong.

You seem to try way to hard to justify why people do not need NFC. Same can be said for any option on any cellphone.

Why should we have iMessage when clearly SMS/MMS works?
Why should we have a camera on the phone when my cheap P&S camera can take way better pictures?
Why have widgets when I can just open the app to get the info?

It just doesn't matter. The option is there, we use it. I was just refuting against someone saying that nobody uses NFC. Really have no clue why people like you are set to undermine the use of NFC for me. Why do you even care so much?

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I remember reading an article where Steve Jobs explains why he took many years to decide about whether to buy a sofa or not. He was contemplating whether a sofa was the best answer to their needs at home.

I think the issue here is not whether people use NFC or not, but rather, whether NFC is the best solution for these purposes, and if a better alternative exists.

For example, some people use NFC to quickly switch between phone profiles. Might a better option be instead to make our phone settings more intelligent that you would be indifferent between toggling them on or off?

It's hard to imagine these two hardware features in a 5S. It will more likely come with the iPhone 6 - and perhaps in the anticipated iWatch in the meantime.

I'm as developer want NFC on iThing because:

1- It's mandatory to provide the user with new Enviroment Iteraction Experience as (few already availabe or under development):

1. Put your phone on a NFC enabled Router and get Tamper - Proof WPA2 keys at it maximun cryptic level.
   
2. Use a Phone as Key to open access to: Your Home, Car, etc (here is where FINGER PRINT SCANNER get in) and authenticate you thru Fingerprint and some gesture or a password if required.
   
3. Use it as Wallet or Credit Card, an NFC in combination with a FingerPrint is an excellent way to provide Safe transactions, safer that with chip-equiped credit cards.

2- PASSBOOK it's an ADOPTION SHAME, a year later still a curiosity, while NFC payments now being used more often than Passbok, NFC payments every day gains more followers at commerce and Banking.

MuddyPaws1 said:

That is simply not true.

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well when i say "only" i mean in any significant way. In NYC i have never once used the NFC in my credit card - i tried once and it didn't work. The subway system is ripe for it - but that uses magnetic tape (invented how many years ago...)