An Emotional Bill Gates Talks About Steve Jobs on '60 Minutes'

Winni · May 14, 2013

AppleMark said:
Forget the corporations, forget the character flaws, dodgy deals and mistakes along the way. We needed both men, in equal measure to be where we are today.

I'm not so sure if I want to agree with you there. Both of them have always stood on the shoulders of the real giants that were almost invisible to the public eye: People like Tim Berners-Lee, Dennies Ritchie, Anders Hejlsberg, Guido van Rossum, James Gosling, Niklas Wirth, Alan Kay, Vint Cerf and Robert Kahn -- just to name A FEW. And even those stood on the shoulders of other giants.

Gates and Jobs primarily were business and sales people. And unlike Gates, Jobs could not even write a simple program. Basically, they are glorified CEOs that get the work of others attributed to them. They both deserve credit for creating the companies that allowed so many great people to create their products and technologies -- and that alone is an incredible achievement.

But I think it's time to do what the Old Romans did when the triumphant general returned from battle: They put a slave on his chariot who held the laurels high above his head and kept whispering the words "remember, you are merely a man" into his ears.

VulchR · May 14, 2013

HenryDJP said:
You're extremely short-sighted in your way of thinking. Just think for a quick second, the Mac's claim to fame has never been that it was developed to be used an stuffy office machine like the Windows PC was so MS Office certainly wasn't something it needed wholeheartedly. The arts have always been the Mac's claim to fame and it still is today....

I know perfectly well that the creative industries sustained Apple during the dark years. However, the Mac was also popular in education, science, engineering, and even business. Don't forget that Mac OS X has its roots in NeXTSTEP - an operating system based on UNIX, which itself was created by scientists and engineers for scientists and engineers. Relying solely on the creative sector only for computer sales was never viable long-term option for Apple. I am not denying that the Mac is an excellent machine for art (I personally have done many neuroanatomical illustrations on the Mac), just that Apple needed a larger market than the graphics arts sector to keep it going.

Also, Adobe might have something to say about Apple's success in the arts. Without Postscript the Mac would have never developed into a useful machine for artists.

AppleMark · May 14, 2013

Winni said:
I'm not so sure if I want to agree with you there. Both of them have always stood on the shoulders of the real giants that were almost invisible to the public eye: People like Tim Berners-Lee, Dennies Ritchie, Anders Hejlsberg, Guido van Rossum, James Gosling, Niklas Wirth, Alan Kay, Vint Cerf and Robert Kahn -- just to name A FEW. And even those stood on the shoulders of other giants.

Gates and Jobs primarily were business and sales people. And unlike Gates, Jobs could not even write a simple program. Basically, they are glorified CEOs that get the work of others attributed to them. They both deserve credit for creating the companies that allowed so many great people to create their products and technologies -- and that alone is an incredible achievement.

But I think it's time to do what the Old Romans did when the triumphant general returned from battle: They put a slave on his chariot who held the laurels high above his head and kept whispering the words "remember, you are merely a man" into his ears.

Behind every great man, are the men and women who made them great..? This is not disputed, neither has it changed from the beginning of hierarchical society and is nothing new. If you work for somebody else, then that is an example of what you do every day.

As an employer myself, it is my experience that the shoulders you stand on at times, are often those who if given the chance to stand on your's would pass the opportunity, as they are scared of heights, or falling off etc... There are historical exceptions based on gender and racial acceptance etc.., but that is a different topic.

Glorified CEO's and salesmen you say?

People on here often lament about how they miss Steve Jobs ("and Tim's a tool etc.."), waiting for somebody to replace him. And that's the point, he won't be replaced. It is not typical of a CEO of Billion $ companies to run thing's the way Steve Job's (and Bill Gates) did. CEO's don't usually frontline sell and get on stage and use powerpoint [EDIT - Keynote]. They pay fast talking salesmen to do that.

Also, they both built the companies they worked for. How much harder do you think you would work today if you owned/built the company you worked for?

Without Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, I would still have my beloved Commodore 64 at home and we would all have IBM Computers using VisiCalc at work..

HenryDJP · May 14, 2013

VulchR said:
I know perfectly well that the creative industries sustained Apple during the dark years. However, the Mac was also popular in education, science, engineering, and even business. Don't forget that Mac OS X has its roots in NeXTSTEP - an operating system based on UNIX, which itself was created by scientists and engineers for scientists and engineers. Relying solely on the creative sector only for computer sales was never viable long-term option for Apple. I am not denying that the Mac is an excellent machine for art (I personally have done many neuroanatomical illustrations on the Mac), just that Apple needed a larger market than the graphics arts sector to keep it going.

Also, Adobe might have something to say about Apple's success in the arts. Without Postscript the Mac would have never developed into a useful machine for artists.

Right and without good software for Windows from companies like Adobe and such Microsoft's system wouldn't have taken off either. It's not like Windows had guaranteed success, case in point MS figured just because it's "Windows" that the Surface would automatically take down the iPad, it hasn't even made a hiccup. Now the tables are turned and MS is seeking for Apple's help in creating an iTunes Metro app to help the tile UI take off. You're not making any real point here. We can go on all day with this subject, but thanks for your input.
P.S, you do realize that with Apple there would be no Adobe right? Don't ask me to prove that, Adobe said it themselves on stage during a presentation.

HenryDJP · May 14, 2013

Winni said:
Gates and Jobs primarily were business and sales people. And unlike Gates, Jobs could not even write a simple program. Basically, they are glorified CEOs that get the work of others attributed to them. They both deserve credit for creating the companies that allowed so many great people to create their products and technologies -- and that alone is an incredible achievement.

While what you're saying is true the one thing I will always give credit to Jobs for is he ran his software on stage during keynotes. Jobs didn't act like this "Glorified CEO" as you call him, he wasn't afraid to get on stage and demonstrate his own software in front of a live audience even if there were hiccups or the software crashed. He even demo'd the complicated parts of his software even during the beta stages of it knowing there was a possibility of failure which could've set himself up for embarrassment.
Gates on the other hand (the software coder he was

) never once demo'd his own software during keynote presentations. He always had his hired little busy bees on stage showing off all the features of Windows and Office. I would've expected him to at least demo those two pieces of software. So while one of the two had programming skills, the other one proved he knew how to run the software he was selling. For all anyone knows Gates may have not known how to do anything in MS Office past typing up a WORD doc.

ALange · May 14, 2013

Shrink said:
OK...for the record (as if anybody cared).

I don't give a ***t about Steve Jobs

I don't give a ***t about Bill Gates.

I think this whole cult of personality thing is nonsense.

This business of He-Who-Shall-Be-Revered-In-Life-And-Death gives me a big pain where I sit.

And this post is...
....a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury... signifying nothing.

you should pay more respect to these guys. they invented most of the technology you cant live without these days.

respect for both guys from me.

Shrink · May 14, 2013

ALange said:
you should pay more respect to these guys. they invented most of the technology you cant live without these days.

respect for both guys from me.

So sorry!

Since you say I have to respect these guys...well, I will!

In fact, I'll genuflect before a shrine of each man at least twice daily.

Thank you so much for telling me what I should do.

AidenShaw · May 14, 2013

HenryDJP said:
Hmmm, yeah I guess the forum members know better than Microsoft themselves, especially since Microsoft announced in 2010 they were discontinuing security updates for XP and recommended people to update to Windows 7. It was also on the news multiple times when Microsoft made that announcement. They said they could not continue re-patching XP and they insists that people upgrade or buy a Windows 7 PC to get a more secure system.
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...updates-for-windows-xp-sp2-pcs/1#.UZE_jZXw6S0

Avalontor said:
The link mentions ending security updates on Windows XP (SP2). Windows XP (SP3) will be supported with security updates until April 2014.

Yes, in 2010 Microsoft gave four years warning of the end of support for XP.

As of today....

AppleMark · May 14, 2013

HenryDJP said:
P.S, you do realize that with Apple there would be no Adobe right? Don't ask me to prove that, Adobe said it themselves on stage during a presentation.

P.S, you do realise that without MicroSoft there would be no Mac right?. Don't ask me to prove that, Steve said it himself in his book by Walter Isaacson.

[nonsense]

"We did the Mac together" Jobs said. "How did that work for you? Very well. Now we're going to do this together and this is going to be great."

This was in referencing Steve Jobs pitch to Bill Gates to get involved with NeXT.

coolspot18 · May 14, 2013

nwcs said:
Almost enough to forget how ruthless Bill Gates was in Microsoft's early years...

Steve Jobs was equally as ruthless too. Successful people are generally not nice people.

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Winni said:
Gates and Jobs primarily were business and sales people. And unlike Gates, Jobs could not even write a simple program. Basically, they are glorified CEOs that get the work of others attributed to them.

Sales people are often the most highly paid people at a company ... besides the CEO

HenryDJP · May 14, 2013

AppleMark said:
P.S, you do realise that without MicroSoft there would be no Mac right?. Don't ask me to prove that, Steve said it himself in his book by Walter Isaacson. [nonsense]

"We did the Mac together" Jobs said. "How did that work for you? Very well. Now we're going to do this together and this is going to be great."

This was in referencing Steve Jobs pitch to Bill Gates to get involved with NeXT.

And??? Do you need a cookie now? You do realize that the money that Apple got from Microsoft was a settlement from an anti-trust suit right? Unlike Gates, Job's has class and is not going to talk crap about Microsoft, but rather takes the high road and will say the positives about how MS played a part in Apple getting back up again, but it certainly wasn't out of charity. I've seen multiple times in interviews Bill Gates has been asked what he thinks about the success of Apple's products, he didn't even have the class enough to just give Apple credit for moving the tech industry in a positive direction and creating great products, he just said no comment. Classless.

I just love how people can't combat an argument so instead they go off tangent and start a different argument. You mentioned Adobe being instrumental in the Mac getting back on it's feet. I mentioned to you that without Apple there would be no Adobe. You had to go on about Microsoft helping Apple, blah blah blah, thanks much.

AppleMark · May 14, 2013

HenryDJP said:
And??? Do you need a cookie now? You do realize that the money that Apple got from Microsoft was a settlement from an anti-trust suit right? Unlike Gates, Job's has class and is not going to talk crap about Microsoft, but rather takes the high road and will say the positives about how MS played a part in Apple getting back up again, but it certainly wasn't out of charity. I've seen multiple times in interviews Bill Gates has been asked what he thinks about the success of Apple's products, he didn't even have the class enough to just give Apple credit for moving the tech industry in a positive direction and creating great products, he just said no comment. Classless.

I just love how people can't combat an argument so instead they go off tangent and start a different argument. You mentioned Adobe being instrumental in the Mac getting back on it's feet. I mentioned to you that without Apple there would be no Adobe. You had to go on about Microsoft helping Apple, blah blah blah, thanks much.

Nope. I think you have me confused with another poster, I made no mention of Adobe helping Apple. That was your spat with VulchR

So, I am not sure how any of your post relates to me and I suppose you are losing track with all the people you are arguing with?....

Anyway.....,MS have helped Apple when they were at their lowest, from investing in the company to porting MS Office. MS Office on Mac made it a computer I [and many others] could use in the real world as a 1 stop PC solution. Crying about it will not change history. And as we all know Steve helped Bill create the Mac....

chadley_chad · May 14, 2013

mdelvecchio said:
thats because it's all in your head.

??? WTF you talking about. Nothings in my head, it is as it is ... as written!

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Rogifan said:
Hmm...what exactly would Steve have done to keep you from going to Samsung?

I assume he would have made sure the iphone 6 was just around the corner and people knew about it .... although having said that, when did Jobs/Apple ever give people what they wanted (as opposed to telling them what they wanted!)

----------

Rogifan said:
Hmm...what exactly would Steve have done to keep you from going to Samsung?

I assume he would have made sure the iphone 6 was just around the corner and people knew about it .... although having said that, when did Jobs/Apple ever give people what they wanted (as opposed to telling them what they wanted!)

SandboxGeneral · May 14, 2013

Solomani said:
Class act, humble, respectable, and genuine. Can't say that about the current CEO of Microsoft.

Right. I'm not overly thrilled with Mr. Ballmer and am frankly surprised the Microsoft Board of Directors keeps him around.

HenryDJP · May 14, 2013

AppleMark said:
Nope. I think you have me confused with another poster, I made no mention of Adobe helping Apple. That was your spat with VulchR

So, I am not sure how any of your post relates to me and I suppose you are losing track with all the people you are arguing with?....

Anyway.....,MS have helped Apple when they were at their lowest, from investing in the company to porting MS Office. MS Office on Mac made it a computer I [and many others] could use in the real world as a 1 stop PC solution. Crying about it will not change history. And as we all know Steve helped Bill create the Mac....

Ah, you're right, I did get you confused with the other poster. So my question once again is, do you want a cookie? Your response was still out of place because I was addressing an Adobe point. Your comeback had wasn't even in relation to what I said. You decided to bring up Microsoft. And BTW, I don't create arguments with people, they just can't seem to restrain themselves from responding to my opinions. That's on them. Thanks.

P.S. your "facts" aren't even facts. LOL. Firstly Microsoft Office for Mac wasn't ported, Office was on Mac natively before it was even thought of to be on Windows. Microsoft settled with Apple from anti-trust suit, that's where the money came from. Steve helped Bill create the Mac??? LOL, check the real history, you're making yourself look foolish.

Solomani · May 14, 2013

SandboxGeneral said:
Right. I'm not overly thrilled with Mr. Ballmer and am frankly surprised the Microsoft Board of Directors keeps him around.

I too am surprised that Microsoft's Board.... AND its (large) shareholders have proven to be silent, spineless wimps who have not ousted Ballmer long ago. They just keep tolerating his "performance" year after year.

HurtinMinorKey · May 14, 2013

HenryDJP said:
Hold on dude, are you serious? You're judging his personal life? Oh okay, I guess that means you're perfect like you've never made mistakes? Oh and I guess that means Bill Gates has never done anything in his life reprehensible? Gimme a break.

Yep, I never tried to run out on one of my children. I guess that makes me a saint. It scares me that you think this is a typical mistake that we all make at some point in our lives.

I guess if he murdered someone that would be okay with you, too.

nwcs · May 14, 2013

coolspot18 said:
Steve Jobs was equally as ruthless too. Successful people are generally not nice people.

I agree. I was just adding some historical balance to young people who may not have seen Bill Gates when he was ruthless.

Solomani · May 14, 2013

nwcs said:
I agree. I was just adding some historical balance to young people who may not have seen Bill Gates when he was ruthless.

Yeah. So maybe 9 years from now, Larry Ellison will be a retired billionaire, and he'll get so bored with his money that he will decide to "rehabilitate" his image. Easy as pie. Larry hires some really good PR people, then he starts jet-setting to Africa and adopting and publicly kissing African babies, and then he adopts a bunch of them. He hires an army of nannies to take good care of them. He even boasts more adopted African children than Brangelina and Madonna combined.

Then Larry transforms into this lovable, adorable gentleman, a champion of the poor, a Crusader for the Impoverished! A kisser of tiny little cleft-lipped African children! What a kind soft-hearted man. The Gates of Heaven may it open for him! Media eats it up. What a saint!

AppleMark · May 14, 2013

HenryDJP said:
Ah, you're right, I did get you confused with the other poster. So my question once again is, do you want a cookie? Your response was still out of place because I was addressing an Adobe point. Your comeback had wasn't even in relation to what I said. You decided to bring up Microsoft. And BTW, I don't create arguments with people, they just can't seem to restrain themselves from responding to my opinions. That's on them. Thanks.

P.S. your "facts" aren't even facts. LOL. Firstly Microsoft Office for Mac wasn't ported, Office was on Mac natively before it was even thought of to be on Windows. Microsoft settled with Apple from anti-trust suit, that's where the money came from. Steve helped Bill create the Mac??? LOL, check the real history, you're making yourself look foolish.

Oh, I forgot... MS Office suit was originally created for Mac.., I must have blacked out a decade or so.....

HenryDJP said:
Steve helped Bill create the Mac??? LOL, check the real history, you're making yourself look foolish.

You don't get humour or know when somebody is winding you up do you.....? I was just participating in your joke exchanges, as I cannot believe your posts are serious ones either.... Really..?

Do I want a cookie?

I think you need milk and cookies... and an early night...

Have fun with that..

Cubytus · May 14, 2013

BRLawyer said:
Can you take a screenshot of it?

Sure, which one can help you?

HenryDJP · May 14, 2013

AppleMark said:
You don't get humour or know when somebody is winding you up do you.....? I was just participating in your joke exchanges, as I cannot believe your posts are serious ones either.... Really..?

I only laugh when something is funny or is really humorous, what you posted was not. Your post are not worthy of another reply from me so don't bother replying, you'll be talking to yourself, waste of time with you. Thanks.

AppleMark · May 14, 2013

HenryDJP said:
I only laugh when something is funny or is really humorous, what you posted was not. Your post are not worthy of another reply from me so don't bother replying, you'll be talking to yourself, waste of time with you. Thanks.

So far, you cannot resist..

Have fun with that.

SandboxGeneral · May 14, 2013

Moderator Note:

Please keep the PRSI comments out of this thread. If you wish to discuss these things regarding Steve Jobs and others, start an appropriate thread in the PRSI forum

/Moderator Note

xcodeaddict · May 14, 2013

Calm down kiddie-geeks, and stop being so childish. They're both amazing men, we can all learn A LOT.

Apple aside - (it's just first world gadgets and toys, at the end of the day) I have respect for Steve Jobs, and I don't have any *dis*respect for him, but I have IMMENSELY MORE respect for Bill Gates, because he is doing the right thing, and any fool can see that he is a great man for having built up many $BN, and then giving it away to those who need a better LIFE, not iPads.

An Emotional Bill Gates Talks About Steve Jobs on '60 Minutes'

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