Microsoft Releases Windows 8 Tablet Ad Highlighting iPad's Flaws, High Price [Updated]

Saladinos said:

Actually using a Bluetooth keyboard with an iOS device is a massive PITA. You need to explicitly go in to settings and enable and disable it every time. It isn't the easiest thing in the world.

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BaldiMac said:

That's not true.

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It really is. As soon as I tried to do this I realised how much I use keyboard shortcuts and how much you miss them when they aren't there. Some, not all, can be accessed using accessibility but then that changes other stuff like clicking links.

The other big difference with the surface keyboard is the touch pad. Strangely, having to move from the keyboard to touch the screen to navigate (without shortcuts) is not a comfortable transition from a cursor and mouse.

Also, why is everyone saying that it makes no sense to have a cover/keyboard as it doesn't work on your lap, so you might as well have a tablet and a laptop? I want to use a device on my lap as a tablet for casual browsing and use the keyboard for work where people work, at a table. So as a hybrid it makes perfect sense to me. Perhaps I don't want to buy, own and carry 2 separate, expensive devices.

Once the concept is valid, all that's left is the design to make it work. I have to say I've been waiting at least a couple of years for decent swivel/touchscreen
laptops, but the Surface concept is much less bulky. I've grown out of early adoption however and I'm waiting to see what Blue and Haswell brings.

Asriel said:

It really is.

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No, you do not have to go into settings to enable and disable a bluetooth keyboard every time you use it with an iPad or iPhone.

rhett7660 said:

I always thought it was I am a PC and I am a Mac? There is a strong reference, but they did not come out and say it was Microsoft did they?

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And this ad doesn't refer anywhere that the white boxy tablet is iPad and the voice assistant is Siri neither.

But everyone knows that it is. Just like everyone knows it is Microsoft when he said "I'm a PC"

iSayuSay said:

And this ad doesn't refer anywhere that the white boxy tablet is iPad and the voice assistant is Siri neither.

But everyone knows that it is. Just like everyone knows it is Microsoft when he said "I'm a PC"

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You are 100% correct about the "just like everyone knows" but maybe you forgot to see this slide at the end.

It is directly calling out the Apple iPad.

And if you read a few posts back someone else stated that "vista" was called out in one of the apple commercials which I later commented that I stand corrected.

mac-er said:

(First, I have to say that I am a huge Apple fan.)

Now, let's get to business. No, they really aren't Pwned.

I cannot stand when Apple fans try to throw the number of apps in people's faces. Why? Because it is the exact same tactic that PC fans used against the Mac in the late 90s and early 2000s. "Windows has more software titles....blah, blah, blah." And, the retort from Mac fans back then was "sost Windows software titles are junk."

Same story today, just roles reversed. Hypocrisy.

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There's a big difference in mobile apps vs apps on computers. Many of my most frequently used apps for my iPhone is apps that are web pages on my computer(which behaves the exact same way on every computer with a web browser). On mobile OS's many of those are apps and that means that the number of apps available is important. You can't compare it to computer apps the same way.

FirstNTenderbit said:

As I stated earlier, whether businesses buy it or not will only be determined over time.

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Most of the businesses interested in a tablet form device have already invested in iOS. Many have been for a while.

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Liquorpuki said:

And I'm an engineer,

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Which means that you are hardly an example of the typical user and user needs

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GerritV said:

Where is it written that a tablet should be for fun only?
I like this add and the product, seems like it lets you get some work done.
Work can be fun, and it pays the iToys

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Only MS shills act like the iPad can't be used for work. It can and plenty of companies are doing it. Despite what Ballmer and Gates want the world to think work doesn't always equal using MS Office

charlituna said:

Which means that you are hardly an example of the typical user and user needs

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The guy asked me what I personally can't use an iPad for so I responded.

But since you brought it up who is the typical tablet user and what does he need?

Only MS shills act like the iPad can't be used for work. It can and plenty of companies are doing it. Despite what Ballmer and Gates want the world to think work doesn't always equal using MS Office

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So I guess workers who need to create Office docs aren't typical either. They must be fringe elements in the workforce

Facts

I hate to confuse the situation with facts but...


To be clear, I have an iPad and love it. I think competition is a GREAT thing because it drives both sites to create better products. At the end of the day they are tools. Different people find different sets of tools more useful than others. That doesn't mean the other tools are bad or inferior - they are just different. Ads are designed to sway the indecisive and uninformed (generally 70% of consumers). If you are informed the ad isn't for you specifically - but they are stinking funny.

well you gotta admit that being able to add micro sdcard in a tablet is just amazing..

32GBcard can be bought for 20$ and having already preinstalled 64gigs..

wow that would be amazing

Rickmead said:

I hate to confuse the situation with facts but...

Screen size: the industry measures screen size from corner to corner. Aspect ratio and therefore surface area is not how displays are marketed. Is the display technically bigger, no - but is it bigger as the industry measures displays? Yes.


Apps: this is not an RT (strictly metro device) so it has access to all the desktop apps in existence.​

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Screen size: But different aspect ratios lead to different screen areas.

9.7" vs 10.1" would seem like the second one would always have a bigger screen - but that is wrong.

The screen area of an iPad is bigger and if you had a hypothetically 15" 15:1 display, you would have an unusable long stripe of display with 15 squareinches.

Nobody could really argue that that display is bigger than a 9.7" 4:3 display.


Apps: The device in the ad is feature an Intel Atom processor, the ones they used in netbooks in the past.

So while all the Windows programs are technically compatible, a majority of them won't be usable, due to the very low performance (especially graphics performance) of the SoC - and then there's also the problem of a lack of programs for regular Windows that are adapted to touchscreens.

patt2k said:

well you gotta admit that being able to add micro sdcard in a tablet is just amazing..

32GBcard can be bought for 20$ and having already preinstalled 64gigs..

wow that would be amazing

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The 64gb device shown in the ad has 34.3 gigabytes of free storage, Windows 8 requires a lot of space for itself.

SILen(e said:

Apps: The device in the ad is feature an Intel Atom processor, the ones they used in netbooks in the past.

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Are you a politician? Your statement is not a lie but it couldn't be more misleading: Wikipedia

And some of those netbooks you disdain were successfully turned into hackintoshes.

The only really good Microsoft tablet is the Surface Pro which beats the iPad in pretty much every aspect, but the price and screen resolution. It costs around $1000 and has a resolution of 1920x1080.

It's a netbook with a separated keyboard. Probably runs hot and will struggle just like netbooks did.

So I guess Windows RT is dead. Can't see Microsoft putting any more money or resources into that OS.

For those that think Microsoft office or multitasking would be great on a tablet, please go to your local Best Buy and try out Windows 8 on one of the numerous tablets gathering dust.

Trust me, it is a miserable experience with a touch interface. Give it 15 minutes and you'll be done.

Verbatim Cookie said:

Are you a politician? Your statement is not a lie but it couldn't be more misleading: Wikipedia

And some of those netbooks you disdain were successfully turned into hackintoshes.

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The IPC of Intel Atom processors hasn't really increased that much in the past, the only real improvement over the older Atoms is the finally less ****** GPU, which is still not as good as the ones in any other smartphone/tablet SoCs.

The ARM-based SoC Tegra 3 GPU has iirc a better performance than the GPU in the Atom.

But hey, at least there's one benefit of the ASUS tablet - with its mucher lower resolution than the iPad 4, it also has less work to do while rendering games

Saladinos said:

Actually using a Bluetooth keyboard with an iOS device is a massive PITA. You need to explicitly go in to settings and enable and disable it every time. It isn't the easiest thing in the world.

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Huh? I have the Apple Bluetooth keyboard, and all I gotta do it press the Eject button if I want to use the touch keyboard. Believe me, there's nothing complicated about it! I think you are holding it wrong.

BaldiMac said:

No, you do not have to go into settings to enable and disable a bluetooth keyboard every time you use it with an iPad or iPhone.

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Amazing Iceman said:

Huh? I have the Apple Bluetooth keyboard, and all I gotta do it press the Eject button if I want to use the touch keyboard. Believe me, there's nothing complicated about it! I think you are holding it wrong.

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I wasn't the original poster, but when I quoted them I meant you would have to go in to settings to enable accessability to get more shortcuts, which I wouldn't want to have enables all the time because of other features that would get in the way.

Probably confusing as I was projecting a problem I experienced onto their quote.

It's just that when I used a keyboard, I unexpectedly found it a very awkward process navigating between areas of text, and I think the touchpad on surface keyboards would make a difference.

BaldiMac said:

Why can't you do that on an iPad?

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I haven't found an app that can turn handwriting into text, especially with the power that OneNote provides. It is the 'killer software' for projects or collaborative efforts. Before I got that tablet I would spend a lot of time typing my notes up. And even then I couldn't include the screen mock-ups we had agreed on. With the combination of the tablet and the software this took only minutes. And OneNote also gave me the ability to record the meeting too. Came in really handy with one group in particular because one guy kept saying 'I didn't agree to that'. Funny look on his face when I played back the recording.

OneNote on the full blown Windows OS is much more than the iPad app. But the tablet with the Wacom digitizer was the difference.

If you read the entire thread of posts I was relying to you will notice that I was making the case that the iPad just can't be used to create complicated documents. For that you need true multitasking (the capability to have multiple windows open concurrently) and the capability to save and organize files (file manager or access to a User Documents folder). You simply can't do all of this with app silos. But that a tablet that provides those capabilities it can be done and a laptop isn't needed.

Don't get me wrong, I love my iPad. But as it sits right now it can't take the place of a work device for a lot of people. On the other hand a Win 8 Pro tablet can. If I weren't retired I most certainly would have a Win 8 Pro tablet and not a laptop. But since I've retired and no longer create complicated documents I find my iPad fits the bill.

iSayuSay said:

The way I see it, less apps = less chance of getting fart apps. How many iPad apps do you find really really useful of those 300,000 something? Plus Surface Pro could run any x86 apps while iPad can't run OSX apps.

Like I said, I'm not saying Surface Pro is cheap, but it has raw power, better potential and usability than iPad.
Given the same spec and features, iPad could end up way more expensive.



Yeah.. And my point is Apple also makes non "pure" products. Contrary to OP's belief.

A desktop with laptop component? What would you call it then?

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Indeed. You get less crapapps but also less good apps. I'm not saying running x86 apps isn't useful, but I really don't like using x86 apps with touch, which makes them almost clunky and the hunt-and-peck for buttons really isn't for me.

A desktop with laptop component is like a laptop running without a battery. That's still a desktop.<wikipedia> A desktop computer is a personal computer in a form intended for regular use at a single location, as opposed to a mobile laptop or portable computer. Early desktop computers are designed to lie flat on the desk, while modern towers stand upright. Most modern desktop computers have separate screens and keyboards.<wikipedia> What ever the case, it is still a pure PC rather than a tablet/PC mix.

szw-mapple fan said:

Indeed. You get less crapapps but also less good apps. I'm not saying running x86 apps isn't useful, but I really don't like using x86 apps with touch, which makes them almost clunky and the hunt-and-peck for buttons really isn't for me.

A desktop with laptop component is like a laptop running without a battery. That's still a desktop.<wikipedia> A desktop computer is a personal computer in a form intended for regular use at a single location, as opposed to a mobile laptop or portable computer. Early desktop computers are designed to lie flat on the desk, while modern towers stand upright. Most modern desktop computers have separate screens and keyboards.<wikipedia> What ever the case, it is still a pure PC rather than a tablet/PC mix.

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The wikipedia definition of a desktop computer can be vague at best in this modern era when computer products has been so advanced.

Nowadays you can slap a Macbook, or even iPad in a single location, never move it and has it connected to input devices and external display, then it would be a desktop too.

iMac has built in display and Apple calls it a desktop ... kind of. Yet it mostly consist of mobile parts. I would still call Mac Mini and iMac a desktop made of laptop component. It's a hybrid product to me.

Or if we want to be more relevant to the earlier discussion, Apple once tried making iPad to be a laptop/tablet mix too.

Remember this? http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/apple-ipad-keyboard-dock/
Perfectly a prototype of Surface Pro.
And it's designed by Apple in California, not third party

No company, including the mighty can stay "pure" with their products.

After all the pointless nonsense MS is throwing at Apple there are still few (and major) strong points that Windows 8 tablets have. iOS is showing its age. To be honest it's like a dinosaur when it comes to productivity.

When iPad was created it was media consumption not creation device. Suddenly more usefull apps started appearing and in theory one could do many office tasks on iPad. Unfortunately, iOS is not supporting this trend. Multitasking on iOS is beyond horrible when compared to Windows 8 (or Android). Also apps are sandboxed so tight on iOS that its seriously effecting more complicated tasks.

When Apple comes out with new iPads they offer more power but that power can't be used effectively in media creation setting due to iOS restrictions. I truly hope iOS 7 is huge departure from previous versions and allows desktop class inter-app communication and multitasking. Apple just can't ride the dinosaur called iOS for ever. Apple, time to wake up and ditch the dinosaur. Hell, Apple is getting PC vs. Mac treatment from MS and this time they are on receiving end and rightfully so, I might add.

donnaw said:

I haven't found an app that can turn handwriting into text, especially with the power that OneNote provides.

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There are many handwriting to text apps for the iPad.

For example:
Smart Writing Tool
MyScript Notes Mobile
MyScript Memo

donnaw said:

Back in 2003 I bought my first 'tablet'. It was a HP 1000. I took it to meetings and took handwritten notes (using OneNote). At the end of the meeting I was able to use the software to translate my notes into text and include the screen mock-ups in less that 5 mins and circulate the notes. All with no keyboard or mouse. I certainly can't do that with my iPad now. Nor can I create complicated documents on my iPad. But I can on a Win 8 Pro tablet. And yes, much can be done with just the touch screen. But if I want/need a keyboard or mouse I have that option.

Oh, and another thing I can do is send an email with multiple attachments, just like the complicated project I described. Yeah, I can see it now, first email - "here's the spreadsheet for Project X", second email - "here's the Word doc for Project X", third email - "here's the PowerPoint for Project X", etc. THAT goes over REALLY well with bosses. And never mind having to use multiple apps just to send those emails, or the confusion caused with file names because you can't create a folder for Project X to keep everything together. Heaven forbid you have several projects going at once! Or need to keep them for months/years to refer to.

And the point I was responding to was the statement that the only artists needed to multitask or have more than one window open at a time. All I did was point out that there are many business uses that simply cannot be accomplished without that functionality.

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All you pointed out was doc usage. I clearly pointed that out. So what other things can you do?

You might not be able to 'heavily' edit docs on your iPad, but I can. I use Pages and Drive. So now my question is what can you do on Win 8 docs that you can't on iPad. Your point about multiple attachments is very valid though.

LOLZpersonok said:

Regardless, you can still run desktop applications on the tablet which ends up being waaaaay more than 300,000. Yes, you can still do it on Windows RT.

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the RT is ARM isn't it? as such it won't run regular windows Apps unless you go the route for jailbreaking and emulating x86, which I believe is still experimental isn't? so yeah many regular apps will run on it, but not out of the box.

So yes, you could run regular windows apps, but would you? Having played with iPads, Android Tablets and Windows Tablets, it seems that running windows apps on a tablet are less than ideal.

why?

Windows makes heavy use of right clicking on the desktop, you need to have a tool that allows you to do this, the pen that you can pickup for use with a PRO tablet, is great, but you have to get used to using it. It has been a pain to keep track of the damn pen. Why don't they add the stow away pen compartment like they used to back in the days?

I like the power of the Surface PRO it's fast, but I dislike the battery life, and the slow response to the sleep/wake button.

I prefer the iPad for

• Performance / Battery life Ratio
• Retina Screen
• response time (Sleep/Wake).
• gestures
• weight ratio
• integration with my iTunes Music Match
• Air Play
• Air Print
• Siri

I like my Nexus 7 for:

• Google Apps Integration
• Google Now
• Ability to use an app as a Wifi Analyzer

The more I use the Surface Pro, the more I think it should have been an UltraBook, with Touch. I think it would have excelled there instead of trying to make it a tablet.

donnaw said:

I haven't found an app that can turn handwriting into text, especially with the power that OneNote provides. It is the 'killer software' for projects or collaborative efforts. Before I got that tablet I would spend a lot of time typing my notes up. And even then I couldn't include the screen mock-ups we had agreed on. With the combination of the tablet and the software this took only minutes. And OneNote also gave me the ability to record the meeting too. Came in really handy with one group in particular because one guy kept saying 'I didn't agree to that'. Funny look on his face when I played back the recording.

OneNote on the full blown Windows OS is much more than the iPad app. But the tablet with the Wacom digitizer was the difference.

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OneNote really is awesome. I took 2 days worth of conference notes in Atlanta in OneNote last month. The pen lasso makes everything quick and easy.

This really is a killer app that should be getting advertised more. Pretty much anyone who was intrigued about the MS Courier was expecting to be able to do stuff like you can do on OneNote