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Morac

macrumors 68020
Dec 30, 2009
2,166
606
iPhone 5s accelerometer/gyroscope/compass values incorrect

You stated "the level app and tap the screen", what level app? If you're talking about the built in compass level and when you tap the screen it goes to 0, don't tap the screen for it will only offset to 0 and the difference will be off more on the other sides.

I realize that, but if I tap the screen and then flip the phone over it should read 180. My iPhone 5S does not.

I posted a video earlier demoing this which someone bashed as not being up to his/her cinematic standards so I took another and threw in an iPhone 4S as a comparison (since both have power and volume buttons).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYQ9uwNlEcI
 

NavyDude065

macrumors member
Sep 24, 2012
97
1
The iPhone 5S is the most complete smartphone

This is according to CNN

http://money.cnn.com/2013/10/09/technology/mobile/iphone-5s-review/index.html



"The iPhone 5S also has a new M7 "co-processor," which is responsible for handling all of the phone's motion sensors (the accelerometer, gyroscope and compass). This gives the iPhone 5S the ability to constantly collect data from these sensors without any hit on your battery life."

who are the trying to fool !!!
 

NavyDude065

macrumors member
Sep 24, 2012
97
1
I realize that, but if I tap the screen and then flip the phone over it should read 180. My iPhone 5S does not.

I posted a video earlier demoing this which someone bashed as not being up to his/her cinematic standards so I took another and threw in an iPhone 4S as a comparison (since both have power and volume buttons).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYQ9uwNlEcI

Watched your video and since your iphone isn't reading correctly, it won't read 180 when you flip it over.173 would be correct. Since you tapped the screen it offset it by 1 to make it 0. This does not calibrate. When you tap the screen to make it 0 it offsets the other site too and makes it -5 plus -1 which would bring it to 174. You're now completely level on one side because you didn't take the volume buttons into consideration. A lot of people get confused when it comes to tapping the screen and causing it to go to 0. It's not a calibration but an offsett and what you take off there to make 0 is automatically added to the other side. I hope this helps.
 

Morac

macrumors 68020
Dec 30, 2009
2,166
606
Watched your video and since your iphone isn't reading correctly, it won't read 180 when you flip it over.173 would be correct. Since you tapped the screen it offset it by 1 to make it 0. This does not calibrate. When you tap the screen to make it 0 it offsets the other site too and makes it -5 plus -1 which would bring it to 174. You're now completely level on one side because you didn't take the volume buttons into consideration. A lot of people get confused when it comes to tapping the screen and causing it to go to 0. It's not a calibration but an offsett and what you take off there to make 0 is automatically added to the other side. I hope this helps.

I know tapping doesn't calibrate the phone. My point of the video is to show that the iPhone isn't measuring the same length sides with the same values. Since there's an x,y and z measurement, the x values should be the same, meaning the measurement when laying on the right side should be identical to the left side (buttons not withstanding). Likewise the top and bottom should match. On my iPhone it does not.

The phone also thinks there are 86 degrees between the horizontal and vertical, though only in one direction. In the other direction there are 90 degrees. Basically an entire circle should be 360 degrees, but my iPhone 5S measures about 352 (90 + 86 + 90 + 86) degrees. That's not even including the z axis which is also off.

The 2 touching sides are correct on my iPhone and the 2 opposite sides are wrong. For others the 2 opposite sides match and the touching sides are different.

I don't see how Apple can do a blanket calibration patch, when each phone is behaving differently and to a different degree.
 

NavyDude065

macrumors member
Sep 24, 2012
97
1
I know tapping doesn't calibrate the phone. My point of the video is to show that the iPhone isn't measuring the same length sides with the same values. Since there's an x,y and z measurement, the x values should be the same, meaning the measurement when laying on the right side should be identical to the left side (buttons not withstanding). Likewise the top and bottom should match. On my iPhone it does not.

The phone also thinks there are 86 degrees between the horizontal and vertical, though only in one direction. In the other direction there are 90 degrees. Basically an entire circle should be 360 degrees, but my iPhone 5S measures about 352 (90 + 86 + 90 + 86) degrees. That's not even including the z axis which is also off.

The 2 touching sides are correct on my iPhone and the 2 opposite sides are wrong. For others the 2 opposite sides match and the touching sides are different.

I don't see how Apple can do a blanket calibration patch, when each phone is behaving differently and to a different degree.

Ok, I get what you're trying to say. I checked all my 4 sides and the left-right are the same at -4 and the top-bottom are -1. Download and calibrate iHandy Level and calibrate to see if it gives you better results. I paid $1.99 for Cliinometer 3 in 1 which works even better and after i calibrate it, all sides are equal. It strongly makes me feel this can be fixed by a software update. Cheers!!
 

madapo

macrumors newbie
Oct 9, 2013
1
0
apple SLEEP?

Why apple don't SAY something?
iphone 5s is expensive phone and with this problems i don't think to buy it.
GIVE Answers apple.
This problem is hardware? IF YES apple screwed up.
Sorry but it's true.
 

WilliamG

macrumors G3
Mar 29, 2008
9,920
3,800
Seattle
Ok, I get what you're trying to say. I checked all my 4 sides and the left-right are the same at -4 and the top-bottom are -1. Download and calibrate iHandy Level and calibrate to see if it gives you better results. I paid $1.99 for Cliinometer 3 in 1 which works even better and after i calibrate it, all sides are equal. It strongly makes me feel this can be fixed by a software update. Cheers!!

Yes, but it looks to many of us that it needs to be an INDIVIDUAL calibration. Every device is different. So a one-shot software update likely (and I do say likely) can't fix the issue.
 

that be me

macrumors 6502
Sep 12, 2013
494
389
Randomly chirping in.
Week 35 16g space grey iphone 5s here. Laying flat -2, on edges 0. I think it maybe a firmware issue, but can be corrected with an update.
 

armandxp

macrumors 6502a
Jun 29, 2010
591
496
Orlando, FL
Got a new 5s today. Gyro is off 2 degree's I guess. Doesn't match up with a level. Ugh....I guess I'll deal with it.

build week 40
 

AppleB

macrumors 65816
Oct 18, 2011
1,149
1,366
The software aka the level the compass maybe be wacky. Someone mentioned in this thread the app X plane. All of the X plane apps I found on the App Store haven't been updated since Dec 2011. Obviously this developer is not on point with iOS 7.

He hasn't tested his app on the latest iPhone hardware or software which in 2011 was iPhone 4? No update for the 4s? Or the later version of OS 6.

I hope no one attempts to build a house with the iPhone level if they do they can text me and let me know how they made out using their Craftsmen smart phone.

I hope no one attempts to sail around the world using the iPhone compass. If you do you deserve to get lost.

In our modern world 3 degrees off here or there mean nothing. If someone tells you walk 8 blocks north and there's the Hilton, will you miss it by 5 degrees? Because of the iPhone compass?

If you walk around NYC with your iPhone out with the compass running your sure to get Apple picked. But there's an app for that.

There are tools that do one specific thing right like a compass meant for hiking a level meant for construction.

Like someone said 6 years ago. A iPod, A Phone, A Internet Device. 3 things the iPhone does well. Did we forget that?.............Yes!
 

U4icLab

macrumors regular
Sep 23, 2012
124
8
SoCal
The software aka the level the compass maybe be wacky. Someone mentioned in this thread the app X plane. All of the X plane apps I found on the App Store haven't been updated since Dec 2011. Obviously this developer is not on point with iOS 7.

He hasn't tested his app on the latest iPhone hardware or software which in 2011 was iPhone 4? No update for the 4s? Or the later version of OS 6.

I hope no one attempts to build a house with the iPhone level if they do they can text me and let me know how they made out using their Craftsmen smart phone.

I hope no one attempts to sail around the world using the iPhone compass. If you do you deserve to get lost.

In our modern world 3 degrees off here or there mean nothing. If someone tells you walk 8 blocks north and there's the Hilton, will you miss it by 5 degrees? Because of the iPhone compass?

If you walk around NYC with your iPhone out with the compass running your sure to get Apple picked. But there's an app for that.

There are tools that do one specific thing right like a compass meant for hiking a level meant for construction.

Like someone said 6 years ago. A iPod, A Phone, A Internet Device. 3 things the iPhone does well. Did we forget that?.............Yes!

I get what you're saying, but the device has evolved a bit in the past 6 years. It's basically a mini handheld computer. Nobody is sailing around the world but we want what we paid for and would like it to work 100%..
 

FrozenDarkness

macrumors 68000
Mar 21, 2009
1,723
964
hm weird, my iphone 5 on iOS7 is showing -3 degrees as well. are we sure it's not a software issue?

i also don't think it's an issue but for the most specific of people. i think even if the media picked up on this nobody cares. 3 degrees? please don't build your house with your iphone
 
Last edited:

Ries

macrumors 68020
Apr 21, 2007
2,313
2,827
That's what I needed. No doc for the other sensor to compare to but not necessary.

This is a well suited sensor. It even has a sample configuration in the document for gaming application specifically.

This document also potentially explains the glitch/jump I see on the live wallpaper, parallax on the home screen, and in sensor data on app launch.

There is a likely different settle time on wake than the other chips (or the other chip did not sleep and so had no settle after power up,) and also the self test bit may be getting set in error for one or all axis, possibly related to 64-bit vars, and is not being compensated for since the data is imposed on top of the test signal.

I would lean farther toward driver/software interface being the issue.

Are you reading the same spec as me? Cause the spec says you should use the lowest mode depending on what you do with the device. 2g mode is for orientation, 4g/8g is for gaming. It can't do both at the same time. So they properly stuck it in 4g/8g mode, which causes orientation to have a very bad resolution.
 

InAustralia

macrumors 6502
Oct 7, 2013
312
113
Sydney, Australia
Genius told me it is a Hardware issue

There are so many mixed messages coming from Apple Geniuses at the moment.

I had my appointment today, and the Genius stated that the problem is definitely a hardware issue and the phone needs to be replaced.

I told her that I had read on forums that this was a common problem and that people had their phones replaced in the past and it did not fix the problem. I asked if perhaps it was a software problem which would be fixed with an iOS update.

I was told it's a hardware issue.

She told me to keep my iPhone but a new shipment was coming in 5-10 days and they would give me one of those.

They are going to process my iPhone as a DOA device (as I am still within my 14 day return period) and so the replacement would be a new iPhone rather than a refurbished iPhone.

Not sure if this is what I really want, but will wait and see what happens next.
 

mustu

macrumors 6502
Nov 5, 2011
396
38
The Apple store level don't know much about it and just say what ever they think is right.

Trust most of them are very basic unless you go to one that can actually repair a phone....and even then what ever they dont know is mostly a hardware fault.

I think apple would have stopped the rollout to other countries if there were a hardware issue.

Lets see what the solution is. I was on the phone with a technical person from apple and he is to get back to me in 6 days but did mention it looks like a glitch that can be sorted out.

They are kind of using the same software for the 5 and the 5s as far as the gyro and that may need a different calibration due to the M7 chipset.
 

Mercenary

macrumors 65816
Sep 17, 2012
1,241
626
According to ifixit the gyro is the same as the on in the 5. The accelerometer is a new one from Bosch.

It's all pointing to the way the m7 translates the raw data from the chips.
 

karan.k

macrumors member
Sep 22, 2013
43
4
Bought an iPhone 5s at full price from the US. The calibration is off by -3 on a perfectly flat surface.

The reason why i fell this is a software issue is because; there would have surely been test iPhone 5s for the Apple executives before the launch. Since this is a problem in so many iPhone 5s, if it was a hardware glitch, the test models, would also would have this problem.

If its software, i presume, it will be easily fixed. But if its hardware, I'm sure Apple will still have a fix thru software, where the user can manually calibrate it, but this kind of fix, the sensors might not work as genuinely as initially intended to.
 

jianqiaozhang

macrumors newbie
Oct 10, 2013
1
0
Nearly all 5s are faulty.

Found out about this post yesterday so I decided to do some tests myself.

Went to Apple Store (highpoint, Melbourne, Australia) tested 8 iphone 5s on display. The gyrometre readings were all a bit off, from -1 to -4, only 1 read -1, the majority was -3.

Could not tell if the display desk was perfectly level, although I tested 2 display 4s on the same table and they read 0. And I found the difference between 5s is huge: e.g. two 5s both read -4 but they "tilted" to complete different angles, judging from the position of those two circles on gyrometre mode.

What I want to say is, the issue is widespread. And for those who intend to rush to apple store to try their luck by getting a new one. Don't waste your time, you will most likely end up with another faulty one, maybe worse.
 

leafspring

macrumors newbie
Oct 8, 2013
10
0
Are you reading the same spec as me? Cause the spec says you should use the lowest mode depending on what you do with the device. 2g mode is for orientation, 4g/8g is for gaming. It can't do both at the same time. So they properly stuck it in 4g/8g mode, which causes orientation to have a very bad resolution.
If I understand the spec correctly (or at least this sub-part) having it at 4g/8g still wouldn't cause false readings.

Having a range of +-2g means that the 6-bit sensor output has a resolution of 62.5mg (a range of 4g divided by the value range of 6-bit(64) = 0.0625) as it is said in the spec. This means the smallest change in the output is 0.0625, but if the sensor registers a 0 on any axis (as it should on x and z when flat on the back), the output would still be 0. And this is true no matter the mode.
If it reads anything between 0g and 0.1249g in 8g mode, the sensor should still output a 0g for the respective axis.
The effect of a wrong mode setting should actually cause the sensor to show 0° when it's not but not vice versa.

Now, the problem I have with my own explanation is that even in 2g mode, the resolution of 0.0625g wouldn't be sufficient for detecting even 3° changes, let alone an accuracy of 1°.
So either my calculations are completely off or this sensor alone is unsuited for leveling/accurate orientation measuring in the first place (still doesn't explain the deviation, though).

---

Funny thing is, by the way, that Bosch says on their web page that the BMA220 is only suited for simple tasks like detecting landscape/portrait orientation while only the BMA180(14-bit) is actually accurate enough to be used as a level.

So either the tear-down guys were completely wrong or Apple really made a very interesting choice here.
edit: Or maybe they used to use the accelerometer for this but switched to the gyro with the acc only as support to calibrate the gyro and the new combination of gyro+acc is not properly implemented. If that makes sense.
 

ArminOF

macrumors newbie
Sep 21, 2013
4
0
I just spoke to the German Apple support and they told me that a recovery-mode restore should help. After the restore (important: do not install the backup) the phone should be connected to a power supply for 90 minutes without touching it. After 90 minutes it should be configured as a new phone (do not recover from backup yet) and then checked, if the problem is still there.

If the problem is still there after this procedure, the backup data is the problem they told me.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1808?viewlocale=en_US

will try that later myself and report if it solves the problem

Kr
 

Londoncity

macrumors member
Oct 4, 2013
88
26
I just spoke to the German Apple support and they told me that a recovery-mode restore should help. After the restore (important: do not install the backup) the phone should be connected to a power supply for 90 minutes without touching it. After 90 minutes it should be configured as a new phone (do not recover from backup yet) and then checked, if the problem is still there.

If the problem is still there after this procedure, the backup data is the problem they told me.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1808?viewlocale=en_US

will try that later myself and report if it solves the problem

Kr

Don't waste your time, it's been tried by many including me and made no difference at all.
 

leafspring

macrumors newbie
Oct 8, 2013
10
0
I just spoke to the German Apple support and they told me that a recovery-mode restore should help. After the restore (important: do not install the backup) the phone should be connected to a power supply for 90 minutes without touching it. After 90 minutes it should be configured as a new phone (do not recover from backup yet) and then checked, if the problem is still there.

If the problem is still there after this procedure, the backup data is the problem they told me.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1808?viewlocale=en_US

will try that later myself and report if it solves the problem

Kr
Of course you can try it if you want but it's probably a waste of time as the display phones in the Apple stores are factory fresh without any restores or previous data and still show deviations.

However, as I stated earlier in this thread, doing the power supplied 90-minute DND does actually reduce the deviation.
 

AppleB

macrumors 65816
Oct 18, 2011
1,149
1,366
I get what you're saying, but the device has evolved a bit in the past 6 years. It's basically a mini handheld computer. Nobody is sailing around the world but we want what we paid for and would like it to work 100%..

If there were no compass or level app we would be fine. Where was this all this talk of bad sensors when the 4s came out? There was none because now because of the M7 people are getting fired up.

The M7 just measures the data from the sensors the M7 has nothing to do with actual motion but most people don't know this.

I would have to see more concrete proof of bad sensors than the level app and compass app showing off readings or a 3 year old flight sim where the plane drifts. And it all started with the level app. No level app in iOS 6 there's no talk of bad sensors.

Gizmodo claims that holding the phone on a table causes the Car in Real Racing 3 to drift to the left. They don't mention if the sensitivity of the steering is adjusted in the game settings. I've tried the game and I had to adjust the settings for my perception of turning the device in relationship to turn the car. A real steering wheel doesn't stay level consistently.

If my screen didn't go from portrait to landscape then I would be worried of a bad accelerometer but even then it could be a software/iOS issue.

People actually think if they return their phone that magically out of the back of the Apple Store they will get one with good sensors. More than likely if there are millions of phones with bad sensors they'll get another one with bad sensors until Apple replaces the boards.They just can't throw new sensors in a board.

I bought the phone and Apple Care+. if something goes bad in the phone I'll take it back repair or replace. Damage out the box like the iPhone 5 now that's an issue. But not the level app being off.
 
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