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Retina iPad Mini's Display Criticized Over Poor Color Gamut and Accuracy

Not unusyal by Apple.

Every new product expierences "complaints" and "problems"

It's Apple, don't expect anything to go smooly.

While issues do happen, they have done this before time and time again, you'd after so long they would have perfected it now.

Besides, if done delibatly, it makes good presss
 
Whatever happened to making sure the product is perfect before release. You guys have **** ton of money in off shore accounts. Use it for something.
 
Parkin Pig said:
People who realise that:
$100 (£80) for a further 16GB,
$200 (£160) for a further 48GB
$300 (£240) for a further 112GB

is unacceptable. I agree that Apple products are expensive because they are classed as premium products, but memory is memory.
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Oh they gouge you, there's no question about that. But unless you're the lightest of light users, stream absolutely everything, and don't install many apps, you don't have much of a choice but to bend over and just take it (if you want an iPad). I'm very sympathetic to your reasoning, but 16GB just isn't very usable anymore.
 
TaoTeJordan said:
If Google release a Nexus 8 soon, would any of you check it out? Or are you apple loyalists?
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I love the Apple ecosystem far too much for me to even consider anything else, so if that makes me a "loyalist," then I guess so. iTunes Match is worth the price of admission all by itself (for me). I'm not a blind follower, though, and I'll be the first to tell you that the new rMini sucks. It puts me in an interesting position; do I keep the tablet just to have a tablet (I've never used one up until this point because none of them have been good enough), do I buy a form factor I don't like just to get a decent screen, or do I just forego using a tablet for another year until they (hopefully) figure out how to make a display that can display pink as pink? I haven't decided yet; fortunately Apple is giving me until January 7th to make up my mind. At the moment, my gut tells me it's stilly to shell out $600+ for something I'm not very happy with, though the resolution is quite nice.
 
I've just received mine and was worried it would look worse compared to my existing iPad mini.

I've put them both side by side and can't notice any difference, so as long as it's no worse than my old iPad i am happy. the screen looks great the retina makes one hell of a difference.
 
SirHaakon said:
Oh they gouge you, there's no question about that. But unless you're the lightest of light users, stream absolutely everything, and don't install many apps, you don't have much of a choice but to bend over and just take it (if you want an iPad). I'm very sympathetic to your reasoning, but 16GB just isn't very usable anymore.
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It's useable. I have a 32gb now (only one they had at BB at the time) but honestly, never used more than 50% of 16gb storage on any of my iPads (4, mini, 3, 2, etc).

Dropbox, Box, Google Drive - Cloud storage should be your de facto modus operandi anyway.

No music on my iPad. I stream videos (who buys videos?), I'll put a video or two on it and then delete after I watch it (who keeps and watches videos again and again on an iPad?).

So that leaves Apps, and yes some games are HUUGE, but aside from one or two I play, I delete the ones I am done with.

Leaving me with about 6GB free at any given time.
 
SirHaakon said:
I love the Apple ecosystem far too much for me to even consider anything else, so if that makes me a "loyalist," then I guess so. iTunes Match is worth the price of admission all by itself (for me). I'm not a blind follower, though, and I'll be the first to tell you that the new rMini sucks. It puts me in an interesting position; do I keep the tablet just to have a tablet (I've never used one up until this point because none of them have been good enough), do I buy a form factor I don't like just to get a decent screen, or do I just forego using a tablet for another year until they (hopefully) figure out how to make a display that can display pink as pink? I haven't decided yet; fortunately Apple is giving me until January 7th to make up my mind. At the moment, my gut tells me it's stilly to shell out $600+ for something I'm not very happy with, though the resolution is quite nice.
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Interesting. I think I had the same opinion until just recently. I would have never considered anything but apple for a cpu or tablet, but they've been letting me down lately. The first gen mini was inferior in many ways compared to apple's previous standards, the recent imac is absolutely gorgeous but impossible to upgrade, and the new macbook pro with retina is a beauty as well, and 1300 is a good price, but comes with just a 128GB hard drive? I bought my 2007 macbook with the same size hard drive!! Sure, it wasn't SD, but still, for whom would a non-upgradable 128GB HD be good for? Not many, I think.

But I use all my mac products for music production, and there is absolutely nothing that could possibly compete with their software. I often have to remind myself that. Who knows, maybe I'm just getting spoiled. But I think if apple had more competition they would produce far better products. I think they are capable of so much more and are not reaching their potential.

I'm not sure what I will do either--either getting an air for my wife and a mini for me, or will just steal my wife's air when I want to write some music and for reading and texting and just foolin around get a nexus 7 or 8 if they release one.
 
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SmileyDude said:
As a developer, I'm looking forward to eventually dropping non-retina support as well. Of course by then, Apple may have thrown another curveball with yet another display size to support. But at least, in theory, I won't have to include 1x and 2x versions of every image.
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i never understood the reasoning for that, surely you just produce the 2x image and the device would downscale it from 2x to 1x on display ? i know i can display a 4k image on a 720p screen and the software handles the scaling.. so i dont get why you have to include artwork for both when surely the larger of the two, scaled down on display would look just as good ?

im sure there is a reason behind it, i just can't see WHY from the way i have manipulated images myself in the past.
 
pocket3d said:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/12..._to_consume_70_of_high_res_ltps_screen_supply

Apple's not using LTPS for their impossibly large numbers of iPads allows Amazon and Google to pick up the crumbs for their measly few million tablets, I would conclude.

It's a matter of production capacity, not how much money anyone can throw at it.
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That article is from May 2012. Production capacity is not static, and yes, building production capacity costs money.

What is it going to take to get you otherwise smart people to realize that the technology isn't there yet to do a retina screen with full gamut while maintaining the same form, approx weight, and battery life?
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Gamut has little effect on power efficiency. Note the iPad Air, which has high res, full sRGB gamma, unmatched battery life, and is the lightest tablet in it's size class. Apple's own products demonstrate what is possible.
 
rGiskard said:
That article is from May 2012. Production capacity is not static, and yes, building production capacity costs money.



Gamut has little effect on power efficiency. Note the iPad Air, which has high res, full sRGB gamma, unmatched battery life, and is the lightest tablet in it's size class. Apple's own products demonstrate what is possible.
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1. So find us a report that says there is now new capacity for ten million 326 ppi larger screens per month. Waiting for that. Also consider that Apple has no doubt deeply investigated developing LTPS in parallel with their massive investments in IGZO production, and they will do what they always do, act rationally toward getting the best technology. Which is why they're using so much of the world's LTPS capacity for their phones, as of last year.

2. Meanwhile, look at Soneira's report on the iPad 3 screens last year, which I linked to earlier, where he says that it is backlighting that gives you gamut. Apple has to use white backlighting this time around (again) rather than higher-draw yellow LEDs because they don't have IGZO production yet to cover the mini at 326 ppi, like they have at the Air's lower density.

Let me know if you're still having trouble reasoning this out.
 
miniR Color Gamut

I got mine yesterday and loved it... until I placed it next to my iPad 3 and noticed the AWFUL color range on the mini. Pick one of the colorful wallpapers and you'll clearly see. Yikes!
Candy Chrush colors were SO pale and washy looking... at least 50% less color saturation, richness. Returned it to Apple store this morning. The kid said to test another on display - same thing. Does not matter who supplies the displays, specs are the specs. IGZO display tech is the problem. Oh well. Will look for a deal on an Air black friday. Pfffft. Disappointing.
 
pocket3d said:
1. So find us a report that says there is now new capacity for ten million 326 ppi larger screens per month. Waiting for that. Also consider that Apple has no doubt deeply investigated developing LTPS in parallel with their massive investments in IGZO production, and they will do what they always do, act rationally toward getting the best technology. Which is why they're using so much of the world's LTPS capacity for their phones, as of last year.

2. Meanwhile, look at Soneira's report on the iPad 3 screens last year, which I linked to earlier, where he says that it is backlighting that gives you gamut. Apple has to use white backlighting this time around (again) rather than higher-draw yellow LEDs because they don't have IGZO production yet to cover the mini at 326 ppi, like they have at the Air's lower density.

Let me know if you're still having trouble reasoning this out.
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There are a few ways to broaden the gamut without going to more expensive LEDs. One includes a different phosphor coating in combination with cheaper blue LEDs. Color isn't as good with this method, but it's better than the current iPad Mini solution. This is about profit margins and product differentiation, not technical hurdles.

As for excess capacity for ten million LTPS 7.9" 326 ppi screens each month, why would that exist if Apple is using a different screen? Production capacity is part of product planning. Apple doesn't just look around the market and hope an extra 50 million panels are sitting unused in a warehouse someplace. No supplier is going to build empty factories and hope some manufacturer decides to use them. Product development and production planning are tightly integrated, and at least with Apple, highly secretive.
 
rGiskard said:
There are a few ways to broaden the gamut without going to more expensive LEDs. One includes a different phosphor coating in combination with cheaper blue LEDs. Color isn't as good with this method, but it's better than the current iPad Mini solution. This is about profit margins and product differentiation, not technical hurdles.

As for excess capacity for ten million LTPS 7.9" 326 ppi screens each month, why would that exist if Apple is using a different screen? Production capacity is part of product planning. Apple doesn't just look around the market and hope an extra 50 million panels are sitting unused in a warehouse someplace. No supplier is going to build empty factories and hope some manufacturer decides to use them. Product development and production planning are tightly integrated, and at least with Apple, highly secretive.
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Geez, what does it take? I said "high-draw," meaning that white LEDs use too much juice, not that they're too expensive! If it was a matter of spending a few more bucks per device, they would have given you your goddamned gamut.

It was a matter of maintaining battery life, or alternatively the size of the device.

If you want to continue to delude yourself that it was a matter of a couple of dollars of margin, I feel sorry for you and I refuse to discuss it further with you.

I mean get real. Apple would risk their reputation as display quality leaders for a couple of dollars? You and others astound me with your lack of common sense. I can only conclude that you're being paid to be so obtuse.

As to your second muddled paragraph, thanks for supporting my point. There isn't LTPS capacity on Apple's level because Apple, the market leader in LCD usage for mobile, hasn't chosen to develop it at scale, as far as we know. I would say they have good reasons why they haven't. Since they've spent nearly a billion on IGZO, you can't say they're cheaping out on displays.
 
chotty said:
I got mine yesterday and loved it... until I placed it next to my iPad 3 and noticed the AWFUL color range on the mini. Pick one of the colorful wallpapers and you'll clearly see. Yikes!
Candy Chrush colors were SO pale and washy looking... at least 50% less color saturation, richness. Returned it to Apple store this morning. The kid said to test another on display - same thing. Does not matter who supplies the displays, specs are the specs. IGZO display tech is the problem. Oh well. Will look for a deal on an Air black friday. Pfffft. Disappointing.
Click to expand...

One more time. The mini retina is not IGZO. Raymond Soneira has trouble making sentences, He can sling piss-ant charges at Apple, but he can't write sentences. That means he can't think straight.
 
Hello all Apple Users. I am new here and I recently ordered the new iPad Mini Retina Display and awaiting for it to ship. I decided to make a new account here and as I was browsing through forums....I came here because there is an issue with gamut color? I have read some posts here and now I'm wondering in my mind. Should I cancel the order on the new iPad mini Retina Display and get the iPad Air, or should I stick with the new mini?
 
ipad mini lover said:
Hello all Apple Users. I am new here and I recently ordered the new iPad Mini Retina Display and awaiting for it to ship. I decided to make a new account here and as I was browsing through forums....I came here because there is an issue with gamut color? I have read some posts here and now I'm wondering in my mind. Should I cancel the order on the new iPad mini Retina Display and get the iPad Air, or should I stick with the new mini?
Click to expand...

I would say if you have an Apple store close to you, go down and compare the two and see if the mini is to you're liking. Me, I have both and like the Air better because of the better color. I let my daughter use the rmini most of the time.
To me the display on these devices is the most important part.
Coming from a 5S, and iPad 4, I could tell the difference after only a short time.

Here is a good shot of the rmini and the Air side by side from iMore...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r10ch78zac2mgxp/retina_ipad_mini_vs_ipad_air_displays.jpg
 
typeadam said:
huh? the iPhone 5/5S and Nexus 7 both are 16:9. So if you use an iPhone you should be used to that same aspect ratio...
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The UI takes up 30% of screen real estate. Terrible design. The iphone 5 browser 'feels' bigger because you don't feel like you're getting squeezed.
 

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ipad mini lover said:
Hello all Apple Users. I am new here and I recently ordered the new iPad Mini Retina Display and awaiting for it to ship. I decided to make a new account here and as I was browsing through forums....I came here because there is an issue with gamut color? I have read some posts here and now I'm wondering in my mind. Should I cancel the order on the new iPad mini Retina Display and get the iPad Air, or should I stick with the new mini?
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I'd say the pixel density and the portability and lightness factors are way more important than the missing color range, and I'm using it mainly for displaying my own videos. Others clearly have other priorities. And I don't have a whole lot invested, since it's only for that purpose, so I got a 16GB WiFi.

I betcha they come out with a full-gamut IGZO update before a year goes by. I say buy the minimum and enjoy it while you wait for the real deal. It's a fantastic reader and web browser, better than the bigger one IMO.
 
Plutonius said:
Nothing to be called out on. It was a design decision to reduce heating / power consumption. To put in a full gamut display, Apple could have either

1) Reduced the display size to the Kindle / Nexus but people would have complained.

2) Made the mini 2 bigger / heavier for a larger battery but people would have complained.

3) Reduced the time the mini 2 runs on it's battery but people would have complained.

Apple decided to have a lower gamut on it's mini 2 display rather than the above three options. The display does look very nice and it's only when you put it side by side with the Air that you notice the difference in gamut.

Which option would you have picked ?



Likewise, which of the above options would you have picked ?
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I thought I was the only person thinking this.
 
jwblue17 said:
I thought I was the only person thinking this.
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A display that can run the full color gamut doesn't produce any more heat or draw any more power than one that can't. It's the LEDs behind the screen that produce the most heat, and consume the most power in an LCD setup. And it'd be shining just the same regardless of if Apple used the cheapest TN panels they could find, or the most expensive, high end components imaginable.

It's just not that good of a display, people. Not the worst. Not the best. It's merely mediocre.
 
pocket3d said:
1. So find us a report that says there is now new capacity for ten million 326 ppi larger screens per month.
Click to expand...

Of course there isn't any report about such capacity, because Apple didn't arrange for the capacity. Assuming here you mean capacity for producing high res 7.9" panels, either LTPS or IGZO?

Also consider that Apple has no doubt deeply investigated developing LTPS in parallel with their massive investments in IGZO production, and they will do what they always do, act rationally toward getting the best technology.
Click to expand...

Apple are not a company that packs their products with the "best technology". They make computers for the masses and thus every design is a set of compromises. Apple rarely spec their computers with the fastest RAM or CPU designs. For a while they seemed focused on offering very, very good displays, but even then the iMac IPS panels don't compare to an Adobe RGB Eizo display.

2. Meanwhile, look at Soneira's report on the iPad 3 screens last year, which I linked to earlier, where he says that it is backlighting that gives you gamut. Apple has to use white backlighting this time around (again) rather than higher-draw yellow LEDs because they don't have IGZO production yet to cover the mini at 326 ppi, like they have at the Air's lower density.
Click to expand...

Color gamut is achieved by a combination of panel and backlight design, it's not so simple as swapping out the backlight LEDs for wider color gamma. Like I already mentioned, white LED backlighting combined with phosphor coatings is commonly used to achieve ~100% sRGB coverage. No extra power draw needed. If you go to Best Buy and check out tablet models released in the last year, you will have a hard time finding any with less than ~100% sRGB coverage. Apple intentionally gimped the gamma, there is no doubt about it.
 
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rGiskard said:
If you go to Best Buy and check out tablet models released in the last year, you will have a hard time finding any with less than ~100% sRGB coverage. Apple intentionally gimped the gamma, there is no doubt about it.
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First of all, no. Most tablets don't come anywhere near being able to display 100% of the RGB gamut. The iPad 3 and 4 were exceptional because they could. It's one of the things besides the high res display that made them look so nice.

Secondly, if they did, then why? Battery life? The 8.9 inch Kindle Fire HDX, which has a screen roughly the same quality as the iPad 3/4 while sporting a higher resolution screen, is on par with the Mini in regards to battery life. Same with the Nexus 7. It's a little overblue, and the screen isn't quite as high resolution, but it's toe to toe with the Mini on lasting power.

Apple didn't intentionally gimp the gamut on the Mini for better performance. That's complete BS. The most likely scenario is that they used lower quality screens as a cost cutting measure.
 
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