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Retina iPad Mini's Display Criticized Over Poor Color Gamut and Accuracy

ppdix

ppdix

macrumors 6502a
Jul 6, 2001
620
195
Miami Beach
AdonisSMU said:
I took my iPad Mini with Retina Display back yesterday in favor of an iPad Air.
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Same here. As a photographer the retina is super sharp, but dull…
In fact, upon side by side comparison of the same high resolution photos, it's exactly the same as the original mini.
I love the screen on the Air but it's still too big and heavy… Hopefully Apple will release an updated iPad Mini Retina with better color gamut.
 
D

dazed

macrumors 6502a
Jun 23, 2007
911
211
lilo777 said:
Why? Because they will never see anything but iPad Mini?
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Most probably won't compare an air to a rMini. Also most people ain't as discerning as many of us on here. It's not like the rMini is bad, it's just not as good as the Air or the competition.

Maybe its just the first run that is bad and the next production run will get better quality screens.

It's sad though that Apple are now falling behind the competition in terms of quality. That was always something they excelled in, and why their products could be sold for a higher price.
 
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pocket3d

macrumors member
Sep 15, 2010
71
0
dazed said:
Most probably won't compare an air to a rMini. Also most people ain't as discerning as many of us on here. It's not like the rMini is bad, it's just not as good as the Air or the competition.

Maybe its just the first run that is bad and the next production run will get better quality screens.

It's sad though that Apple are now falling behind the competition in terms of quality. That was always something they excelled in, and why their products could be sold for a higher price.
Click to expand...

It's probably a temporary situation. Part of their long-range plan is to consumerize 4K displays. The iPad mini will be a full-gamut, 2K side effect of that.

I'm pretty sure it was supposed to happen this time around, but I'm guessing the screens at that density aren't easy to make.

All speculation based on what facts we have, rumors we've seen, and deductions we can easily make.
 
rGiskard

rGiskard

macrumors 68000
Aug 9, 2012
1,800
955
pocket3d said:
You are being perverse. You know what I mean by now. THERE AREN'T ENOUGH LTPS SCREENS IN THE WORLD TO SUPPLY APPLE!!!

Stop it!
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LOL, you're still riding that horse? I thought you realized that the reason the supply isn't there is because Apple didn't develop it. In other words, if Apple wanted such a screen, they would arrange for the capacity needed.

----------
Renzatic said:
You'd be surprised. Yeah, getting that extra pixel density does cost a helluva lot more, but producing displays capable of 100% isn't exactly chips and dip.

Think about how many tablets are able to display near 100% of sRGB. There aren't many, and those that can are almost always the higher end options (at least this was the case until recently, anyway). Most of them usually peg out around 75% or so. The reason being is that going with lower quality panels is an easy way to save money on production to get that price down for the consumer.
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Of course it costs something, but the technology for displaying 100% sRGB has been around far longer than the tech for producing 330ppi LCD panels.

But really, BOTH technologies could have been used in the Mini at the $400 price point. The Nexus 7 and iPad Air are all the proof we need. One comes in far below the Mini in price, albiet with a slightly smaller display, while the other is only slightly more expensive, but has a much larger display.
 
Renzatic

Renzatic

Suspended
Aug 3, 2011
9,561
10,118
Gramps, what the hell am I paying you for?
rGiskard said:
Of course it costs something, but the technology for displaying 100% sRGB has been around far longer than the tech for producing 330ppi LCD panels.
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Of course. High and wide gamut monitors have been around since...like...monitors.

Though I'd say going with lesser quality panels would shave a good $10-$20 or so off the base line price of each device. Not huge huge HUGE savings, but enough of one to be noticeable.

But really, BOTH technologies could have been used in the Mini at the $400 price point. The Nexus 7 and iPad Air are all the proof we need. One comes in far below the Mini in price, albiet with a slightly smaller display, while the other is only slightly more expensive, but has a much larger display.
Click to expand...

I'm probably overloading my brain with too many variables figuring out why, but assuming that Pocket is right, and Apple couldn't get ahold of enough LTPS screens to meet demand (which is pretty debatable, considering they were able to get enough for the iPhone 5/5S release, which is a hotter seller than even the Mini), then they might've been faced with two choices. Either use a thinner, weaker backlight to make for a thinner device, or make it a little thicker and heavier and use the iPad 3 tech.

...or they could've cheaped out and skimped on better quality panels to keep it below certain costs like I originally though.

...also, why didn't they use IGZO backlights for the retina Mini?

Right now, all I can say is that just about any of the above is likely, and...yup...hell if I know what the actual reason was. The end result of any of the above though is that the Mini doesn't have as nice a screen as it should. Maybe next time, huh?
 
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pocket3d

macrumors member
Sep 15, 2010
71
0
I see you guys just have trouble keeping all the parameters lined up in your head.

The reason LTPS is in short supply is that Apple has been using it all for their iPhones. I linked to a report from last year saying that, which rGiskard dismissed as being too old, but it was forward-looking to 2013.

Apple has invested hundreds of millions in IGZO production development, and you want them to invest more hundreds of millions in a competing technology that they clearly know about, and presumably have rejected in favor of IGZO?

Does that sound like Apple to you, investing in both only to waste the investment in one, in other words throwing away xxx millions on a losing tech?

No, they're going to pick the one that fits their needs and throw their production development money into that. There could be any number of patent issues and other strategic considerations involved, we would have no way of knowing. But we do know that Tim Cook's Apple focuses years in advance. IGZO R&D goes back at least a couple of years that we've been hearing about.

LTPS development would also have to go back years to affect production by now. They chose not to, apparently. Whether it turns out to have been the right decision we won't know until the first 4K IGZO screens start coming out. Not to mention the retina mini, when those IGZO backplanes are finally ready.

By the way, LTPS and IGZO refer to the transistor substrate (the backplane) that underlies and controls the pixel matrix. The backlighting is a separate issue.
 
ChrisNH

ChrisNH

macrumors regular
Jul 21, 2008
122
73
southern New Hampshire
Go The iPad Air instead

I worked for Apple Business from summer 2010 to fall 2011 and decided as a parting gift for my family I would buy 3 iPad 2s for my two kids and my wife. I personally went without, figuring that I'd get one eventually. Once the iPad Mini Retina came along I decided that this would be the one I would go for. But this news item and subsequent commentary gave me some pause, until my wife short-circuited my hemming and hawing and bought me an iPad Air instead. I'm very happy, realizing by looking at it that the new 'full-sized' iPad is actually smaller than the previous 'full-sized' iPad. It really isn't the 'boat-anchor' that proponents of the Mini might lead you to believe.
 
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sixrom

macrumors 6502a
Nov 13, 2013
709
1
I finally got tired of wasting time trying to get an iPad mini with a decent retina display. Now that I've had all of the various displays from Apples different vendors, it's obvious Apples unable to overcome this issue.

The good news is for another $100 one can purchase the full size iPad, and get the quality you pay for. The improvement over the mini is very significant
 
J

jjjoseph

macrumors 6502a
Sep 16, 2013
503
643
I'm returning mine...

I bought one for the family for the Holiday's and I have decided to return it. I figured that if I am going to be spending almost $800 for a pad. (64gig/Applecare/Protective Cover) then I better be really really happy. I work with color professionally and I can't NOT see how bad the color is. I can't color grade a photo, even on a consumer level and know that I am not even close to an sRGB image, is pretty unacceptable.

BTW I LOVED LOVED LOVED everything else about this pad, size, speed, handle, feel, everything. It actually breaks my heart to return it, but when apple releases a new iPad mini, either as a new version or quietly (as to not bring attention to their mistake), then anyone holding the First Generation mini will be kinda pissed, I would. And the first retina mini pad will be worth a lot lot less. Also, it is a mistake… or a major oversight. Apple can't advertise this amazing screen and then have a small color gamut. The mini screens will eventually be replaced to be closer to the full Pad.

So for me, its either a Nexus 7 that my daughter can thrash around with or a iPad Air for the whole family.
 
S

SirHaakon

macrumors 6502a
Jun 14, 2007
763
6
jjjoseph said:
I bought one for the family for the Holiday's and I have decided to return it. I figured that if I am going to be spending almost $800 for a pad. (64gig/Applecare/Protective Cover) then I better be really really happy. I work with color professionally and I can't NOT see how bad the color is. I can't color grade a photo, even on a consumer level and know that I am not even close to an sRGB image, is pretty unacceptable.

BTW I LOVED LOVED LOVED everything else about this pad, size, speed, handle, feel, everything. It actually breaks my heart to return it, but when apple releases a new iPad mini, either as a new version or quietly (as to not bring attention to their mistake), then anyone holding the First Generation mini will be kinda pissed, I would. And the first retina mini pad will be worth a lot lot less. Also, it is a mistake… or a major oversight. Apple can't advertise this amazing screen and then have a small color gamut. The mini screens will eventually be replaced to be closer to the full Pad.

So for me, its either a Nexus 7 that my daughter can thrash around with or a iPad Air for the whole family.
Click to expand...
This.
 
70s technology

70s technology

macrumors newbie
Nov 8, 2013
14
4
London
Thanks for the informative and well-thought out posts pocket3d, haven't seen comments with that clarity of thought evident on here in quite a while. And kudos to Renzatic for being big enough to "walk back in" his claims to some extent (if I read the conversation correctly). Enjoyable read.

pocket3d said:
But we do know that Tim Cook's Apple focuses years in advance. IGZO R&D goes back at least a couple of years that we've been hearing about.

LTPS development would also have to go back years to affect production by now. They chose not to, apparently. Whether it turns out to have been the right decision we won't know until the first 4K IGZO screens start coming out. Not to mention the retina mini, when those IGZO backplanes are finally ready.

By the way, LTPS and IGZO refer to the transistor substrate (the backplane) that underlies and controls the pixel matrix. The backlighting is a separate issue.
Click to expand...
 
A

acribb

macrumors regular
Nov 30, 2007
148
3
I just received my mini retina. The color is not good at all. Reds look brownish red to me. I'm coming from an iPad 3 and it's color is far superior to the retina mini's. Too bad because I really like the size and feel on this when typing. I guess I have to trade in for the Air as I'm not going to be able to settle with this glaring issue.

The wife said the colors look muted on the mini vs. the iPad 3.
 
M

mclld

macrumors 68030
Nov 6, 2012
2,639
2,060
I seriously could not imagine being so nit picky about things, that would make the smallest things so annoying
 
M

mclld

macrumors 68030
Nov 6, 2012
2,639
2,060
Bad? Sure maybe not as good as the competition but people seemed to get by before. I'm willing to be the average user would be just fine. I haven't seen one so maybe it is absolutely horrible, did it get bad reviews from all the tech sites?
 
LordVic

LordVic

Cancelled
Sep 7, 2011
5,938
12,458
I see it a little differently than you guys...

Apple is heavily vested in IGZO. however the screens for the R Mini weren't ready yet.

I think this was pretty evident leading up to the R Mini's announcement. There were lots of rumours for months stating Apple was not likely to release a retina Ipad Mini till 2014.

Then started coming the competition, who were managing hi DPI displays in 7/8" tablets mid 2013. the Nexus 7 was a bit of a blow to Apple's plans.

the Average consumer doesn't give a flying fruitbat what type of technology makes the display. They just care that the resolution is there, Viewing angles are sufficient and that colours are close enough to not appear washed otu and bad.

In this case, With the N7's release, Google camp was ahead of the game.

I think Apple did a very knee jerk reaction to this and sourced the first available Retina Mini panels they could, within a certain price range, that matched a minimum requirement of at least decent enough colours.

Apple was not going to give google and the other makers of high resolution tablets 6 months headstart.

Hence, we get a Retina Mini with a compromised display. Not the one that Apple intended. But still good enough to be sold.

What we'll likely see, is similar to what Apple did circa the iPad 3. a short lived product that was a stopgap product. in 6months or a year, the rMini will be once again "refreshed" and we'll likely see the IGZO displays that were likely expected to be released originally in 2014.

So overall, I think it's a combination of factors that lead to this display. Ands not just Apple trying to be cheap, though it was a consideration
 
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