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Old Aug 25, 2014, 09:16 AM   #26
cmaier
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Originally Posted by MacSince1990 View Post
I was honestly not ever all that clear on what the M-chip did. Doesn't it stand for "Motion Processor" or something?

Unless it's like, *really* specialized or something (such that it can do in many fewer cycles and at a much lower power consumption what the CPU can't do in certain important tasks) I don't really get why it's needed. Tbh I was kind of puzzled when they introduced it.
M7 tracks steps and user motion and stores the information at a tremendously lower power consumption than the main processor, and even works when the phone is powered off.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 09:16 AM   #27
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The definition of Phosphorus is "Phosphorus is a nonmetallic chemical element with symbol P and atomic number 15. A multivalent pnictogen, phosphorus as a mineral is almost always present in its maximally oxidised state, as inorganic phosphate rocks. It is poisonous."

What are they thinking behind the code name for this?
...Seriusly lol?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apple_codenames
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 09:18 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Design787 View Post
The definition of Phosphorus is "Phosphorus is a nonmetallic chemical element with symbol P and atomic number 15. A multivalent pnictogen, phosphorus as a mineral is almost always present in its maximally oxidised state, as inorganic phosphate rocks. It is poisonous."

What are they thinking behind the code name for this?
It's simple really.. the chip will create Phosphine gas to kill off Android users once and for all.

Thumb resize.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 09:21 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Design787 View Post
The definition of Phosphorus is "Phosphorus is a nonmetallic chemical element with symbol P and atomic number 15. A multivalent pnictogen, phosphorus as a mineral is almost always present in its maximally oxidised state, as inorganic phosphate rocks. It is poisonous."

What are they thinking behind the code name for this?
It was the Greek name for the Morning Star (Venus when seen before sunrise) and means "light bringer".

On the other hand, this minor deity was known to the Romans as "Lucifer", which has some other connotations.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 09:26 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by leecbaker View Post
So here's what's in the schematic in the article:

TLDR: This is a barometric pressure sensor, and most definitely not a processor of any type. I think it's safe to assume that we can expect a pressure sensor in the next iPhone- many other phones have found uses for them.
I was looking up chips when I saw your post. I think you're most likely correct. Excellent analysis!

Quote:
OSCAR was the code name of the M7, and the serial lines...
That was the first clue to me, too. The lines even say Oscar to Phosphorus, so it's obviously not a replacement for the M7, but a peripheral for it.

The SPI bus is marked as IMU (inertial measurement unit .... accelerometers, etc), so it's sharing that bus with them, although it has its own chip select, as you also said.

Quote:
The chip pictured has the part number BMP282. I'm 99.99% sure this is a Bosch barometric pressure sensor, similar to this part BMP280
Yep, that chip's pins also match the schematic:

Click image for larger version

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TL;DR: barometric pressure sensor... leecbaker for the win!

Last edited by kdarling; Aug 25, 2014 at 10:16 AM.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 09:29 AM   #31
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It's simple really.. the chip will create Phosphine gas to kill off Android users once and for all.
So THAT'S what that massive 2,900 mAh battery's for
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 09:40 AM   #32
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Thank you leecbaker and kdarling for your insight! It's nice to have you here.

It does look like most "leakers" don't know how to read and interpret these schematics.

@macrumors how about asking those people first before you make an add on the new m7 successor!

Last edited by iPhysicist; Aug 25, 2014 at 09:46 AM.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 09:44 AM   #33
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Ooooh, another supposed "schematic" that someone's knocked up in Photoshop, upon which they've typed "phosphorus"... seems legit to me, honest guv, coz it's got ambiguous rectangles with data lines going in and out, and it's got all kinds of complicated mystery GPIO assignments from Mars...

What cad package is being used; kiddiecrayon cad?

Insane.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 09:47 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by leecbaker View Post
So here's what's in the schematic in the article:

TLDR: This is a barometric pressure sensor, and most definitely not a processor of any type. I think it's safe to assume that we can expect a pressure sensor in the next iPhone- many other phones have found uses for them.
--
The first thing that threw me off- if this was the M7 or some kind of other 'processor', it would tend to communicate with sensors in a master-slave fashion over a serial protocol like SPI or I2C. It would also need some kind of data link back to the A7 (or A8 or whatever), most likely another serial line. That's not present in this diagram.

The stuff on this schematic is labelled like SPI, or a similar protocol. The line coming in from the top left is labeled MOSI- this stands for master out, slave in- it's a serial data line (going one way). It's connected to the SDI pin of the chip (serial data in), meaning that this chip must be a slave to the master SPI controller, and not the M7 or successor.

It is common to have multiple 'slave' chips hooked up to the same master (sharing data lines, one MISO and one MOSI). The master selects which chip it wants to talk to with a CS line (chip select). This is the line at the bottom left, the only one with 'PHOSPHORUS' in the net name. Since that CS line would be selecting PHOSPHORUS, and PHOSPHORUS is a slave, that tells me that PHOSPHORUS must be whatever this chip, probably a sensor (see more below!).

OSCAR was the code name of the M7, and the serial lines are labelled such that they go from sensors (e.g. the IMU) to the M7. I'm not making much of the fact that the serial lines going to this chip have labels saying they go from OSCAR (the M7) to the IMU, but are actually connected to this chip- I think they are probably just shared serial lines.

The chip pictured has the part number BMP282. I'm 99.99% sure this is a Bosch barometric pressure sensor, similar to this part BMP280 . Variants of one part often have slightly different part numbers- if Apple got Bosch to customize the chip for them with different packaging, or a slightly different measurement range, that would explain the difference in part number.

EDIT:
Here's what Bosch says the BMP280 chip is commonly used for:
* Enhancement of GPS navigation (e.g. time-tofirst-fix improvement, dead-reckoning, slope detection)
* Indoor navigation (floor detection, elevator detection)
* Outdoor navigation, leisure and sports applications
* Weather forecast
* Health care applications (e.g. spirometry)
* Vertical velocity indication (e.g. rise/sink speed)

Spirometry is measuring breath/lung function.
what do you do for work? lol
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 09:48 AM   #35
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Let's say you have diabetes. No big deal if it's not too bad, you eat healthily and take your tablets regularly. So someone with well-controlled diabetes isn't expensive. Someone with diabetes who doesn't give a ****, drinks six cans of beer every day, that person will be expensive. If I could get an app that observes my health, makes me do the right things, decreases the cost for the health insurance company, and at the same time decreases the cost _for me_ while improving my health, there's nothing wrong with that.
Here is what you and everyone else like you desperately needs to understand: The insurance companies are not your friend. In any given situation, they will almost always choose to screw over the customer—especially if it saves them a cent. It's even worse that the insurance companies are now in bed with the federal government. We've already learned over the past few years that we can't trust our federal government in any capacity (regardless of party). Are you so naive to believe that the federal government doesn't want to get it's dirty paws all over our personal health records? They're trying to grab up as much information as possible to use against us. I'm tired of a nanny state where everything I do must be monitored "for my own good" or "because it will save me money." I have plenty of money because I don't blow my savings on stupid crap like 95% of our society does. My wife and I budget and are responsible adults. I'm tired of our society preventing people, businesses—everyone from failing. Failure is a fundamental part of being a human and necessary for healthy development and growth. Comparisons to alarm systems is a straw man argument. We're talking about being forced into (or pay the consequences) having to wear personal monitoring devices like some kind of a prisoner. Insurance companies might give a discount at first—but soon that rate will inch up and become the baseline. Those who don't hook into the monitoring system will be paying much more than baseline. I, for one, don't really like the idea of having to pay a "privacy tax" just because you millennials love blasting your personal information all over the place. BTW I'm in my late 20s, so technically a millennial. But I don't buy into their mindset.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 09:53 AM   #36
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We've already learned over the past few years that we can't trust our federal government in any capacity (regardless of party). Are you so naive to believe that the federal government doesn't want to get it's dirty paws all over our personal health records? They're trying to grab up as much information as possible to use against us.
There's medication available for this condition.
Quote:
I'm tired of our society preventing people, businesses—everyone from failing. Failure is a fundamental part of being a human and necessary for healthy development and growth.
Sadly, sociopathy is more difficult to treat.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 10:00 AM   #37
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[redacted]

Last edited by Narrator Jack; Aug 28, 2014 at 08:20 PM.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 10:18 AM   #38
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Here is what you and everyone else like you desperately needs to understand: The insurance companies are not your friend. In any given situation, they will almost always choose to screw over the customer—especially if it saves them a cent.
[...]
Those who don't hook into the monitoring system will be paying much more than baseline. I, for one, don't really like the idea of having to pay a "privacy tax" just because you millennials love blasting your personal information all over the place. BTW I'm in my late 20s, so technically a millennial. But I don't buy into their mindset.
Standing ovation. They will give a discount at first, then they will pump up the "regular" prices saying that the iHealthButtPlug helps in reducing overhead costs, then the customer will basically lose choice.
I guess nobody cares about privacy anymore. I remember the good days when people said that the Internet was great because of its anonymity.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 10:29 AM   #39
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So phosphorus is just a codename, or am I the only person wondering why they don't just call it M8?
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 10:35 AM   #40
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It'll probably be named M8, this is just the codename for it's development and manufacturing process I assume.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 10:39 AM   #41
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There's medication available for this condition.

Sadly, sociopathy is more difficult to treat.
That's funny. Until it isn't.

I agree macduke has somewhat of an alarmist tone, but there is a grain of truth in what he says. People need to remain diligent about their privacy.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 10:40 AM   #42
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Not only. Would it be right for someone to have access to a lower premium just because they own an expensive phone?
Is it fair that people get energy discounts for owning more expensive appliances that are more efficient? Or get better insurance premiums for having an alarm system in their house or car? There are a million different incentives for discounts on insurance premiums. And if this is true, it's just another one.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 10:47 AM   #43
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Is it fair that people get energy discounts for owning more expensive appliances that are more efficient? Or get better insurance premiums for having an alarm system in their house or car? There are a million different incentives for discounts on insurance premiums. And if this is true, it's just another one.
your example is not applicable. If you get pissed off, you can get rid of your energy company, your appliances and even electricity. You can live as a good Amish or a full minimalist.
You can't get rid of your health status, and after Obamacare - whatever you think of it - you can't avoid having an insurance policy.

EDIT: And I am sure you see the difference between telling them the model of dishwasher/car you use in respect to tell them where you go, when, how, why (Car example) or what you put on, what do you wash, which colors, what brand and quantity of detergent, how many clothes you go through any given day etc.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 10:50 AM   #44
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So phosphorus is just a codename, or am I the only person wondering why they don't just call it M8?
Yes, it's a codename, but as noted above, it's NOT a replacement for the M7.

It's almost certainly a pressure sensor, which Apple would likely use for indoor/outdoor navigation and weather apps.

(Too bad the chip has a BMP prefix, and not BME. The latter also includes humidity and temperature sensors.)

Interestingly, the Galaxy Nexus (2011), Note II (2012), and S4 (2013) used the predecessor (BMP180) to this chip (BMP282).
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 11:10 AM   #45
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The problem with the m7 currently is that individual apps seem to have to interpret its movement data. I can get wildly different step counts between apps using the m7 as the data source. Makes it kind of useless.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 11:17 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by leecbaker View Post
So here's what's in the schematic in the article:

TLDR: This is a barometric pressure sensor, and most definitely not a processor of any type.
Excellent work! MacRumors need to make an Update to the article I think.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by McTaste View Post
The problem with the m7 currently is that individual apps seem to have to interpret its movement data. I can get wildly different step counts between apps using the m7 as the data source. Makes it kind of useless.
This is not a problem with the M7 since that's not what the M7 is designed to do. That's a problem with how odometers have worked since day one, there's nothing's new in that regard. They all interpret the data collected by the sensors differently. The M7 chip doesn't to the interpretation, it only collects data from the sensors. It does this whether the main CPU is sleeping or not, and the applications that uses the data doesn't have to be running for the collection of data.

So useless? Hardly.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 11:19 AM   #47
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 11:25 AM   #48
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They also have to somehow beef or add a processor to enable the "hey siri" feature without the need of being plugged in. I mean if they keep it that way it'd be stupid to introduce that feature. I think they introduced it because it will be a key feature for iPhone 6 / iWatch... but the phones before can't do it without losing MASS battery because how it sucks off the processors.
Totally agree. Been thinking this since WWDC. It's surprising sometimes how you can glean certain bits of info about upcoming products, but there isn't much talk about it.
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 11:42 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by leecbaker View Post
So here's what's in the schematic in the article:

TLDR: This is a barometric pressure sensor, and most definitely not a processor of any type. I think it's safe to assume that we can expect a pressure sensor in the next iPhone- many other phones have found uses for them.
--
The first thing that threw me off- if this was the M7 or some kind of other 'processor', it would tend to communicate with sensors in a master-slave fashion over a serial protocol like SPI or I2C. It would also need some kind of data link back to the A7 (or A8 or whatever), most likely another serial line. That's not present in this diagram.

The stuff on this schematic is labelled like SPI, or a similar protocol. The line coming in from the top left is labeled MOSI- this stands for master out, slave in- it's a serial data line (going one way). It's connected to the SDI pin of the chip (serial data in), meaning that this chip must be a slave to the master SPI controller, and not the M7 or successor.

It is common to have multiple 'slave' chips hooked up to the same master (sharing data lines, one MISO and one MOSI). The master selects which chip it wants to talk to with a CS line (chip select). This is the line at the bottom left, the only one with 'PHOSPHORUS' in the net name. Since that CS line would be selecting PHOSPHORUS, and PHOSPHORUS is a slave, that tells me that PHOSPHORUS must be whatever this chip, probably a sensor (see more below!).

OSCAR was the code name of the M7, and the serial lines are labelled such that they go from sensors (e.g. the IMU) to the M7. I'm not making much of the fact that the serial lines going to this chip have labels saying they go from OSCAR (the M7) to the IMU, but are actually connected to this chip- I think they are probably just shared serial lines.

The chip pictured has the part number BMP282. I'm 99.99% sure this is a Bosch barometric pressure sensor, similar to this part BMP280 . Variants of one part often have slightly different part numbers- if Apple got Bosch to customize the chip for them with different packaging, or a slightly different measurement range, that would explain the difference in part number.

EDIT:
Here's what Bosch says the BMP280 chip is commonly used for:
* Enhancement of GPS navigation (e.g. time-tofirst-fix improvement, dead-reckoning, slope detection)
* Indoor navigation (floor detection, elevator detection)
* Outdoor navigation, leisure and sports applications
* Weather forecast
* Health care applications (e.g. spirometry)
* Vertical velocity indication (e.g. rise/sink speed)

Spirometry is measuring breath/lung function.
Thanks Captain Obvious!!

No seriously, that was a great analysis. And the Bosh chip to back it all up, amazing!
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Old Aug 25, 2014, 11:53 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by leecbaker View Post
*long post*
Great work. I had been questioning the legitimacy of these "schematic" leaks, but the presence of this new part definitely suggests it could be legitimate.

I was independently looking at the NXP line of chips to see if there was on obvious successor, then I came back and saw your great post, so no need to waste my breath there.

Interesting that the codename is phosphorous. Perhaps a play on pure phosphorous' reaction to oxygen (atmosphere)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdarling View Post
Yes, it's a codename, but as noted above, it's NOT a replacement for the M7.

It's almost certainly a pressure sensor, which Apple would likely use for indoor/outdoor navigation and weather apps.

(Too bad the chip has a BMP prefix, and not BME. The latter also includes humidity and temperature sensors.)

Interestingly, the Galaxy Nexus (2011), Note II (2012), and S4 (2013) used the predecessor (BMP180) to this chip (BMP282).
Are there any obvious medical uses for such sensors where you wouldn't require an external accessory for a more direct measurement? Could be the reason perhaps.
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