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ipodtouch4ever

macrumors newbie
Apr 21, 2014
17
2
Me and pretty much everyone I know with an iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch has iTube and uses that to listen to music we have saved whenever we want without internet access. We can listen or watch whatever is on YouTube and that's good enough for us. No wonder it was taken down from the app store, but I'm never going to delete it.

Also I listen to a lot of music, but I only buy music from my favourite artists that I want to support. There's so many songs I listen to by artists I don't really like that much so that's why I don't buy their music and if I don't like enough of their songs.
 

sundog925

macrumors 6502a
Dec 19, 2011
948
971
iTunes Match includes iTunes Radio free of commercials. i

Tunes Radio sans commercials is the main reason I chose iTunes Match, not my own music. This makes it similar to Pandora One for only $2/month.

iTunes Radio is no where near as good as pandora or spotify. I can go for a few hours before hearing the same song on Pandora, but iTunes radio seems to give up within 30 minutes.
 

Mak47

macrumors 6502a
Mar 27, 2011
751
32
Harrisburg, PA
This headline is incredibly misleading. Apple and other streaming service providers don't pay a fixed royalty rate per play to labels or artists. They never have and never will.

These services pay out royalties based on total revenue generated from ads and/or subscription fees. Generally, the service keeps about 30% of what's generated and pays out the remaining 70% in royalties to labels & artists based on the percentage of that revenue they "earned"--with every song play essentially being a share.

For example (using very simple numbers, not based on industry standards):

Service X generates $100 from 10 subscribers.

of that $100, $70 of it will go to content owners.

If 10,000 songs were played (1000 per user), content owners would receive $.007 per play.

If those same users would play 20,000 songs instead, the payout per song would be cut in half. If they played 5,000 songs, it would double.

The number of songs played is irrelevant to the service provider, outside of the network volume they'll need to maintain.

If Apple has asked to cut rates in half, what they're really doing is asking the labels/artists to accept the idea of a $5 per month service from which they'll still receive 70% of the revenue.

Here's why that actually puts more money in content owners' pockets:

The people using premium streaming services today are power users. Many of them are early adopters that are playing thousands of songs per month. They're making the most out of their $10 per month investment.

By reducing to $5, casual users will become enticed. Casual users/listeners are a much larger part of the music consumer base. Easily a 10:1 ratio. Those consumers are likely to jump on a $5/month all you can eat premium service. Especially one as high quality as Beats Music. They won't listen to thousands of songs per month. They'll listen to a few hundred.

Here's how that affects the numbers:

$500 is generated from 100 subscribers (instead of just 10)

$350 of that revenue is divided between content owners.

Now 30,000 songs are played (avg. of 300 per user)

Payment per stream jumps to $.01167. (up significantly from $.007)

Most importantly, not only is the per stream revenue higher, but the number of streams is higher as well. An artist that may have streamed 10 songs under the old model, would now stream 40 at the higher rate.
--
Do I personally think $10/month is more than fair for unlimited music? Absolutely. But I'm not a 22 year old who's grown up thinking music is free. Nor do I have a wife and 3 kids who also need subscriptions.

All of that is irrelevant however. The numbers don't lie, there's a balance point where reducing the price will attain critical mass with subscriber count. It's not unlike insurance programs. Insurance companies need lots of subscribers because most of them will make a limited number of claims, which offsets the cost of the customers who make lots of them.
 
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ctone

macrumors regular
Nov 28, 2006
103
4
First and foremost, one of the early posters on this thread is absolutely right. The "record label" is an inefficient middle-man in the digital music distribution process these days.

LoL.... really? You want to give more money to the record companies?


For all of you down on record labels, remember that artists would not be signing with them if they did not think that the label could provide something in return for a portion of the profits, and ultimately result in more money for the artist. Yes, some of the big labels are inefficient, just like any big company. Labels do a lot, but most importantly, they finance the recordings.
When there is less money for the labels, there is less money to record, and the quality of the recordings and music goes down.

The big labels get nervous due to less income, and don't want to sign anything ground breaking, or that might not fit into a neat category, or any artist that might require 3 or 4 albums to develop into greatness, because it is a bigger risk (with increasingly less returns), so they put out cookie-cutter music that we complain about.

Since quality recording has become free, there has been a MUSIC EXPLOSION.

Quality recording is not free. It isn't even cheap. As mentioned by others earlier, even if an artist can afford to spend enough to buy quality recording gear, that can easily run in the tens (or even hundreds) of thousands of dollars, they do not have the expertise that an experienced recording engineer or producer can bring to improve the songs and recordings. They won't go into a great recording studio with excellent acoustics for long enough to get good sounds, or emotional performances. If they aren't on a label, and don't have the funds to pay for this stuff themselves, the recording quality and music almost always suffer.


Apple is merely flexing its muscle because of their size, just like Wal-Mart can squeeze every last penny out of their vendors.
 

EbookReader

macrumors 65816
Apr 3, 2012
1,190
1
Apple could use subscription music as a "LOSS LEADER." Amazon uses LOSS LEADER all the times.

Before: $10 a month = $7 to labels and $3 to Apple

Now: $7 a month = $7 to labels and $0 to Apple
 

CurtisCalderon

macrumors member
Sep 14, 2014
35
30
This headline is incredibly misleading. Apple and other streaming service providers don't pay a fixed royalty rate per play to labels or artists. They never have and never will.

These services pay out royalties based on total revenue generated from ads and/or subscription fees. Generally, the service keeps about 30% of what's generated and pays out the remaining 70% in royalties to labels & artists based on the percentage of that revenue they "earned"--with every song play essentially being a share.

For example (using very simple numbers, not based on industry standards):

Service X generates $100 from 10 subscribers.

of that $100, $70 of it will go to content owners.

If 10,000 songs were played (1000 per user), content owners would receive $.007 per play.

If those same users would play 20,000 songs instead, the payout per song would be cut in half. If they played 5,000 songs, it would double.

The number of songs played is irrelevant to the service provider, outside of the network volume they'll need to maintain.

If Apple has asked to cut rates in half, what they're really doing is asking the labels/artists to accept the idea of a $5 per month service from which they'll still receive 70% of the revenue.

Here's why that actually puts more money in content owners' pockets:

The people using premium streaming services today are power users. Many of them are early adopters that are playing thousands of songs per month. They're making the most out of their $10 per month investment.

By reducing to $5, casual users will become enticed. Casual users/listeners are a much larger part of the music consumer base. Easily a 10:1 ratio. Those consumers are likely to jump on a $5/month all you can eat premium service. Especially one as high quality as Beats Music. They won't listen to thousands of songs per month. They'll listen to a few hundred.

Here's how that affects the numbers:

$500 is generated from 100 subscribers (instead of just 10)

$350 of that revenue is divided between content owners.

Now 30,000 songs are played (avg. of 300 per user)

Payment per stream jumps to $.01167. (up significantly from $.007)

Most importantly, not only is the per stream revenue higher, but the number of streams is higher as well. An artist that may have streamed 10 songs under the old model, would now stream 40 at the higher rate.
--
Do I personally think $10/month is more than fair for unlimited music? Absolutely. But I'm not a 22 year old who's grown up thinking music is free. Nor do I have a wife and 3 kids who also need subscriptions.

All of that is irrelevant however. The numbers don't lie, there's a balance point where reducing the price will attain critical mass with subscriber count. It's not unlike insurance programs. Insurance companies need lots of subscribers because most of them will make a limited number of claims, which offsets the cost of the customers who make lots of them.

That is making an awful lot of assumptions. You went from each listener averaging 1000 listens per month (at the $10 per month rate) and went all the way down to 300 listens per month per user for bulk.

One could easily do the math again...

@$10 a month, 10 subscribers would gross $100 to X companies.
@1000 listens per person per month, that's 10,000 plays, it equals $.01 per tune that gets paid out.

@5 a month, 100 subscribers would gross $500 to X companies
@600 listens per person per month, that's 60,000 plays, it equals $.008 per tune that gets paid out.

In this case, the bulk buying actually pays out much less.

So, I think a 40% in reduction is more realistic than a 70% reduction, but on top of it, you also make music less valuable to people. "Hey, I can get all I want in one month for $5, why should I ever buy music, when it's $15 a cd!? So, now the new mentality is, music is cheap and disposable.

Second, if you ever decide to not subscribe anymore, or the prices begin to rise too much, you own NOTHING. You don't own any MP3's, cds, etc. Of course, it's easy to steal music so why not steal it? That same type of mentality that makes it ok to steal music but not ok for someone to steal your car is hypocritical. In no way am I saying you condone stealing music, just the reality of what's going on.

So, I think throwing out assumptions based on numbers can go either way very easily. I hear your point, but I simply don't agree with the "make things as cheap as possible by buying in bulk." It tends to hurt those who make really quality products. You can't make a quality product for cheap unless you are asking people along the way to work for cheap and then everyone gets lowballed :( And people complain that they can't earn a living wage in the US, well, this is one of the factors...there's more to it than that, but making everything as cheap as possible only makes those producing it suffer, be it music or clothing or food.
 

Tech198

Cancelled
Mar 21, 2011
15,915
2,151
*limited* is the key word.... and even though mre music will be added, it will always be limited.

Thus, Apple wants to make it cheaper to stream, that's fine, but no matter how cheap it may be if the content your looking for isn't there, they'll go elsewhere...

Even if users have to pay more, if the content is elsewhere, they would.
 

alex0002

macrumors 6502
Jun 19, 2013
495
124
New Zealand
Honestly, most streaming services are already only paying artists just more than 1 penny a play... That means you as a listener would have to listen to that song 70 times to give the artist even close to the 70 cents they make on 99 cent download today.

Take a look at your iTunes play count for the most popular song in your library and you'll get a good idea of why this is bad for the artists... and ultimately the Listener and Apple (if they aren't paying artists well).

I know many artists who are starting to shun the streaming model for services such as BandCamp and are ultimately making more money because of it...

Apple, please don't undercut artists. Pay them what they are worth and value the arts.

That is the same flawed argument that was used to calculate lost income from piracy, where it was claimed that each illegal download equalled a lost sale. I have listened to many albums and songs on Spotify, that I would never had listened to if I had to purchase them first. If other people do the same, the income from those streams will far outweigh the lost 70 cents from the purchase of one track.

Last night I purchased an album through Bandcamp, although I'd already streamed it on Spotify. I still wanted a copy for my collection and Spotify wasn't going to give me FLAC audio quality.

The artist got the steaming income, plus an album sale.

The steaming model isn't perfect - some artists have long album tracks, even though payment is per track streamed and 30 seconds listening is enough. Plus earning money through touring sucks if you are a small band that records with difficult to transport acoustic instruments. e.g. The Dawn of Midi example in this article.

This band uses a grand piano, an upright bass, and a drum set to make their music; touring means they either play venues with grand pianos on site (relatively common) or that they rent a very big van (uncommon, if we’re talking about small bands trying to drag around a grand piano).
 
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Lictor

macrumors 6502
Sep 13, 2008
383
21
Last night I purchased an album through Bandcamp, although I'd already streamed it on Spotify. I still wanted a copy for my collection and Spotify wasn't going to give me FLAC audio quality.

You have FLAC streaming and offline mode on other services, such as Quobuz. Yes, it's more expensive, but then, you don't have any reason to buy a digital album either. Actually, I have tons of albums on iTunes, but I rarely use it anymore, I just use my streaming service and offline mode, it's way faster than syncing with iTunes...

The streaming model isn't perfect - some artists have long album tracks, even though payment is per track streamed and 30 seconds listening is enough.

Yes, I have some albums where the whole album is a single track (for instance Daft Punk Alive 1987) or some jazz albums where the album is just 4-5 tracks (for instance, Keith Jarrett Köln Concert).
Streaming also encourages zapping, which is a clear drawbacks for complex albums that need repetitive and attentive listening to really grow up on you (most Gainsbourg or Bashung albums felt like it).
 

s2mikey

Suspended
Sep 23, 2013
2,490
4,255
Upstate, NY
:rolleyes:

Here's what Tim Cook made last year, of course he's gotta talk down the labels to lower their income, Apple can't keep up with it's board member's salaries otherwise and we wouldn't want them to go broke :(

http://appleinsider.com/articles/14...m-in-2013-topping-all-but-one-sp-500-tech-ceo

Yeah, kind of interesting that Apple is asking for price reductions. They are quite happy to charge plenty for their goods and services, aren't they?

I'm wondering when there will be a website that costs artists hardly nothing to sell their music through that they can all use? Why not buy content directly from those that created it? Why do we need iTunes or any other music app? I Have no problem paying A buck for a song. It's be nice to know that the artist is the one getting most of that money.
 
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