iPhone 6+: PLEASE help. Forgot passcode, 1 shot left, not backed up :(

stevemiller · Jan 25, 2015

No solution, but I'll say the op's story isn't at all unfamiliar. I've got 4 nieces and nephews who'll often try to weasel their way into getting my password. I did the impromptu password change back on my 4s and realized I was going to immediately forget it. Luckily I got it changed back before the number fully left my head.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know WHY the passcode tends to supersede Touch ID in so many cases? As evidenced by sneaky kids, it seems way easier to observe a person entering their passcode than get their fingerprints. The necessity of the passcode after reset or 48 hrs etc seems weird. Like I can see it as a fallback, but why is it considered more secure for iPhone restart situations? Also, the fact that we enter the passcode less often thanks to Touch ID seems like it would increase the likelihood of people forgetting it from decreased use. If fingerprints, which are supposedly secure enough for apple pay purchases, were kept as an option for proving your identity on a disabled phone, literally this whole thread would be moot.

All things said, it just seems weird that we talk in such absolute terms about apple needing to be without back doors, etc, when the entire foundation of the supposed security is for many people a 4 digit code that isn't THAT hard to observe over someone's shoulder if they aren't being careful.

McDaddio · Jan 25, 2015

Greenone said:
What I did when I created this damned passcode (beyond drinking wine and allowing myself to be distracted)

There may be some clues here:

Do you remember what type of wine you were drinking?
Or how many glasses you had?
Or if you drank directly out of the bottle, do you remember how much was left when you changed the password?

Have you tried hypnosis?

Are there any video cameras near your house that may have captured what you were doing (like a street camera that happened to be pointing into your window)?

Lastly, did you try "1234"? That works for unlocking my phone.

Greenone · Jan 25, 2015

stevemiller said:
No solution, but I'll say the op's story isn't at all unfamiliar. I've got 4 nieces and nephews who'll often try to weasel their way into getting my password. I did the impromptu password change back on my 4s and realized I was going to immediately forget it. Luckily I got it changed back before the number fully left my head.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know WHY the passcode tends to supersede Touch ID in so many cases? As evidenced by sneaky kids, it seems way easier to observe a person entering their passcode than get their fingerprints. The necessity of the passcode after reset or 48 hrs etc seems weird. Like I can see it as a fallback, but why is it considered more secure for iPhone restart situations? Also, the fact that we enter the passcode less often thanks to Touch ID seems like it would increase the likelihood of people forgetting it from decreased use. If fingerprints, which are supposedly secure enough for apple pay purchases, were kept as an option for proving your identity on a disabled phone, literally this whole thread would be moot.

All things said, it just seems weird that we talk in such absolute terms about apple needing to be without back doors, etc, when the entire foundation of the supposed security is for many people a 4 digit code that isn't THAT hard to observe over someone's shoulder if they aren't being careful.

Amen.

I7guy · Jan 25, 2015

stevemiller said:
No solution, but I'll say the op's story isn't at all unfamiliar. I've got 4 nieces and nephews who'll often try to weasel their way into getting my password. I did the impromptu password change back on my 4s and realized I was going to immediately forget it. Luckily I got it changed back before the number fully left my head.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know WHY the passcode tends to supersede Touch ID in so many cases? As evidenced by sneaky kids, it seems way easier to observe a person entering their passcode than get their fingerprints. The necessity of the passcode after reset or 48 hrs etc seems weird. Like I can see it as a fallback, but why is it considered more secure for iPhone restart situations? Also, the fact that we enter the passcode less often thanks to Touch ID seems like it would increase the likelihood of people forgetting it from decreased use. If fingerprints, which are supposedly secure enough for apple pay purchases, were kept as an option for proving your identity on a disabled phone, literally this whole thread would be moot.

All things said, it just seems weird that we talk in such absolute terms about apple needing to be without back doors, etc, when the entire foundation of the supposed security is for many people a 4 digit code that isn't THAT hard to observe over someone's shoulder if they aren't being careful.

Fwiw, Apple offers options. You can set a complex password; which I have done. My phone, by policy, is set to erase after 10 attempts and is fully backed up every two weeks.

Little kids do not get a chance to touch my phone as the last thing I want to do is restore the darn thing unnecessarily.

IN working with fingerprint technology, in sure Apple programmed in the current system based on some criteria we likely will never know about. It wasn't some random system they came up with.

And there seems to be conflicting info exactly what happens with "erase after 10 attempts" is off. I know at some point the phone forces longer and longer times between tries...but a poster above confirmed his friends iphone 6+ did not behave the same as the ops.

JayLenochiniMac · Jan 25, 2015

stevemiller said:
Out of curiosity, does anyone know WHY the passcode tends to supersede Touch ID in so many cases? As evidenced by sneaky kids, it seems way easier to observe a person entering their passcode than get their fingerprints. The necessity of the passcode after reset or 48 hrs etc seems weird. Like I can see it as a fallback, but why is it considered more secure for iPhone restart situations? Also, the fact that we enter the passcode less often thanks to Touch ID seems like it would increase the likelihood of people forgetting it from decreased use. If fingerprints, which are supposedly secure enough for apple pay purchases, were kept as an option for proving your identity on a disabled phone, literally this whole thread would be moot.

Apple claims this is done as an "additional security validation," but doesn't give a reason for this. So we're left to speculate as to why or how Apple thinks the way they do.

zorinlynx · Jan 25, 2015

Most user data on the phone is encrypted. The key to decrypt this data is based on the passcode. There is NO WAY to get at this data after a restart (the key is purged from memory) without the passcode.

NO ONE, not Apple, not the CIA, no one can get the complete encryption key without the passcode. Once you enter the passcode, the data is decrypted, and that point the phone will allow TouchID to work. But before that point, the data is inaccessible.

Your WiFi passwords are among that data. Notice that before that first passcode entry, your phone will not join your Wifi; that's because the encryption key to access the password database (keychain) is not available yet.

stevemiller said:
Out of curiosity, does anyone know WHY the passcode tends to supersede Touch ID in so many cases? A

Jstuts5797 · Jan 25, 2015

I still think you should be able to try more passcode combinations. My friend replicated this on his 6+ and it never erased his data. I would concur with the having a few glasses of wine and then trying. You never know!

Greenone · Jan 25, 2015

Jstuts5797 said:
I still think you should be able to try more passcode combinations. My friend replicated this on his 6+ and it never erased his data. I would concur with the having a few glasses of wine and then trying. You never know!

It doesn't erase one's data per se. It forces one to restore the phone - there's a difference. But the end result is the same. Tomorrow (Monday) I'm calling Apple again but the consensus seems to be that I'll lose everything if I try a possible passcode one more time and get it wrong. Did your friend get three 60-minute time outs? What happened after that? I'm told that after the 2nd 60-minute lockout you have one more chance then it resets itself to "restore." Even the Apple rep tried it on his phone but he couldn't reach me later to tell me the results so he emailed me and said simply:

"Hello _____,

I tried calling you but I got the message your mailbox is full. The third time does lock the device and it says connect to iTunes."

Best regards,

______
iOS Senior Advisor
Apple"

What I don't know - what he didn't say - is whether it asks to connect to iTunes to restore the phone (as the only option left, which would indeed mean losing everything without having backed up first) or what happened when/if he did go to iTunes after that. Hopefully I'll learn more tomorrow. I'd take my chances but half the people at Apple say DON'T DO IT - YOU'LL LOSE EVERYTYHING while the other half say "I don't know what will happen...things are changing so quickly with security measures and updates..." and then they quote conflicting quotes from internal apple "what to tell customers" notes. Man does this suck.

Pez555 · Jan 25, 2015

Greenone said:
No. It says "loading" but then never loads and it also says "0 photos" to import. Nothing we've tried in there works either - not without unlocking the passcode I assume.

----------

The OP won't be forgetting her passcode again. Although the OP won't be ever using a gdamned password again, assuming she ever resolves this issue. And the OP's child will lose a hand if he ever tries to steal the OP's phone again...

----------

Thanks, though nothing can be synced from the phone due to the passcode issue. Not even a non-Mac computer. It's locked tight. Yay apple.

Pretty sure it won't matter if the phone is locked or not.

1. Buy an iPod/iPad
2. Set it up
3. Turn photo stream on (the iPad/iPod)
4. Photos from your iphone will automatically begin to sync from your iPhone to your iPod/iPad.
5. Job done; sync and back up your iPod/iPad and upload photos to your computer.

This is of course the photo stream is turned on on your iPhone....

Greenone · Jan 25, 2015

Pez555 said:
Pretty sure it won't matter if the phone is locked or not.

1. Buy an iPod/iPad
2. Set it up
3. Turn photo stream on (the iPad/iPod)
4. Photos from your iphone will automatically begin to sync from your iPhone to your iPod/iPad.
5. Job done; sync and back up your iPod/iPad and upload photos to your computer.

This is of course the photo stream is turned on on your iPhone....

I've never used photo stream (isn't that the same as using iCloud?). Anytime I've ever moved photos from my iPod to my laptop I've just plugged it in with the cable (or on a rare occasion, sent an email to myself). Thank you though.

Pez555 · Jan 25, 2015

Greenone said:
I've never used photo stream (isn't that the same as using iCloud?). Anytime I've ever moved photos from my iPod to my laptop I've just plugged it in with the cable (or on a rare occasion, sent an email to myself). Thank you though.

When you set up the phone you turned iCloud on didn't you? Then they will automatically upload to your other idevices

.

coldsweat · Jan 25, 2015

Can you not just use one of the standard iPhone explorer Applications like http://www.ibrowseapp.com to browse your phone & take off the photos?

edit: looks like you'd need to open your phone to 'trust' the computer first - oh well....... useless advice no.526

JulesJam · Jan 25, 2015

Pez555 said:
Pretty sure it won't matter if the phone is locked or not.

1. Buy an iPod/iPad
2. Set it up
3. Turn photo stream on (the iPad/iPod)
4. Photos from your iphone will automatically begin to sync from your iPhone to your iPod/iPad.
5. Job done; sync and back up your iPod/iPad and upload photos to your computer.

This is of course the photo stream is turned on on your iPhone....

But I thought Photostream was only for 30 days worth of pics?

Acronyc · Jan 26, 2015

I can't offer any advice that hasn't been given, but just want to mention that I can understand how the OP could have forgotten their password. It happens in legitimate circumstances and I can imagine it's very frustrating. It almost happened to me once and it was no fun.

I have my Exchange account for email/calendar on my iPhone for work (it's that or carry two phones, which I'm not a fan of) and due to my organization's security measures I have to change my password every 30 days, using 8 or more characters with at least a mix of capital and lowercase letters, special characters, and numbers. I can't use passwords that are similar at all to a number of previous passwords (I'm not sure what this number is, but I know its at least over 12).

One day back when I had my 4S last year I was trail running with a friend. It was early spring, we were at about 2,000 meters elevation, it was raining, foggy, getting dark, and we were a good 12 kilometers from the nearest civilization. I was feeling great, but in the low visibility my friend and I got separated. One of us made a wrong turn at an intersection of a few trails. I went to unlock my phone to check my GPX file for our pre-agreed upon route and to use the Find My Friends app to see where he was, and up came the "you must change your password" notice. I couldn't do anything except call an emergency number, but I needed the maps and apps on my phone to find my friend and also make sure we get back to civilization.

After trying futily for all the passwords of 8+ characters that I could easily remember, I was getting annoyed and worried that I would make a password and forget it, thus getting locked out of my iPhone like the OP. I keep daily backups so I wasn't worried about my data or photos, but the more time that went by the more worried I was getting that I wouldn't be able to find my friend. I didn't have a pen and paper with me, and the last thing you want to do in the cold and rain on a mountain is stop running, stand there and think through the most ideal password combination for your phone, all while getting colder and more separated from your running partner.

So I decided to make a new password and keep repeating it to myself until I could make a note of it in the notes app. Once I did that, I took a screen shot of the notes app with my new password on it and set it as my lock screen background and wallpaper. Not very secure, but that way at least I could use my phone until I got off the mountain and back home. If I didn't do this I'm pretty sure I would have forgotten my password by the next time I needed to use my phone.

Anyway, because I was able to use my phone I was able to find my friend and we got off of the mountain without any problems. That was the first time I ever thought about forgetting my password and it was disconcerting. So, TL;DR, OP I can totally understand where you're coming from and I hope you're able to get your data and photos back somehow, and also make sure to keep regular backups in the future.

Greenone · Jan 26, 2015

Acronyc said:
I can't offer any advice that hasn't been given, but just want to mention that I can understand how the OP could have forgotten their password. It happens in legitimate circumstances and I can imagine it's very frustrating. It almost happened to me once and it was no fun.

I have my Exchange account for email/calendar on my iPhone for work (it's that or carry two phones, which I'm not a fan of) and due to my organization's security measures I have to change my password every 30 days, using 8 or more characters with at least a mix of capital and lowercase letters, special characters, and numbers. I can't use passwords that are similar at all to a number of previous passwords (I'm not sure what this number is, but I know its at least over 12).

One day back when I had my 4S last year I was trail running with a friend. It was early spring, we were at about 2,000 meters elevation, it was raining, foggy, getting dark, and we were a good 12 kilometers from the nearest civilization. I was feeling great, but in the low visibility my friend and I got separated. One of us made a wrong turn at an intersection of a few trails. I went to unlock my phone to check my GPX file for our pre-agreed upon route and to use the Find My Friends app to see where he was, and up came the "you must change your password" notice. I couldn't do anything except call an emergency number, but I needed the maps and apps on my phone to find my friend and also make sure we get back to civilization.

After trying futily for all the passwords of 8+ characters that I could easily remember, I was getting annoyed and worried that I would make a password and forget it, thus getting locked out of my iPhone like the OP. I keep daily backups so I wasn't worried about my data or photos, but the more time that went by the more worried I was getting that I wouldn't be able to find my friend. I didn't have a pen and paper with me, and the last thing you want to do in the cold and rain on a mountain is stop running, stand there and think through the most ideal password combination for your phone, all while getting colder and more separated from your running partner.

So I decided to make a new password and keep repeating it to myself until I could make a note of it in the notes app. Once I did that, I took a screen shot of the notes app with my new password on it and set it as my lock screen background and wallpaper. Not very secure, but that way at least I could use my phone until I got off the mountain and back home. If I didn't do this I'm pretty sure I would have forgotten my password by the next time I needed to use my phone.

Anyway, because I was able to use my phone I was able to find my friend and we got off of the mountain without any problems. That was the first time I ever thought about forgetting my password and it was disconcerting. So, TL;DR, OP I can totally understand where you're coming from and I hope you're able to get your data and photos back somehow, and also make sure to keep regular backups in the future.

Thank you Acronyc for sharing that and also for not judging too harshly (and the good wishes).

Rajani Isa · Jan 26, 2015

zorinlynx said:
Most user data on the phone is encrypted. The key to decrypt this data is based on the passcode. There is NO WAY to get at this data after a restart (the key is purged from memory) without the passcode.

NO ONE, not Apple, not the CIA, no one can get the complete encryption key without the passcode. Once you enter the passcode, the data is decrypted, and that point the phone will allow TouchID to work. But before that point, the data is inaccessible.

Your WiFi passwords are among that data. Notice that before that first passcode entry, your phone will not join your Wifi; that's because the encryption key to access the password database (keychain) is not available yet.

Now I don't know if this was in their thinking or not (since the ruling happened after TouchID was initially released) but passcodes are knowledge; information. Thus protections against self-incrimination protect you from being required to give them to the government.

However, fingerprints are not protected under the fifth amendment. Which, IIRC, was a judge's basis for ruling that you can be compelled to unlock a fingerprint-locked phone legally. Now this hasn't even hit a state supreme court last I heard, much less SCOTUS, but until then it's the only instance of deciding on the legality of forcing a fingerprint lock (case in question involved an iPhone, however, so by the time the Judge said "Go Ahead" TouchID had already been auto-disabled due to the 48 hour rule).

The article from here about the situation

compwiz1202 · Jan 26, 2015

McDaddio said:
Did you try "1234" ?

That works for me...

Oops, I just revealed my passcode!

Oh well.

Only an idiot would use that passcode! Oh wait, that's the combination to my luggage.

burgman · Jan 26, 2015

Can't you just make room on your laptop then sync phone and backup? My 6+ doesn't require me to unlock laptop or phone to sync unless I restarted the phone.

Greenone · Jan 26, 2015

Rajani Isa said:
Now I don't know if this was in their thinking or not (since the ruling happened after TouchID was initially released) but passcodes are knowledge; information. Thus protections against self-incrimination protect you from being required to give them to the government.

However, fingerprints are not protected under the fifth amendment. Which, IIRC, was a judge's basis for ruling that you can be compelled to unlock a fingerprint-locked phone legally. Now this hasn't even hit a state supreme court last I heard, much less SCOTUS, but until then it's the only instance of deciding on the legality of forcing a fingerprint lock (case in question involved an iPhone, however, so by the time the Judge said "Go Ahead" TouchID had already been auto-disabled due to the 48 hour rule).

The article from here about the situation

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

----------

burgman said:
Can't you just make room on your laptop then sync phone and backup? My 6+ doesn't require me to unlock laptop or phone to sync unless I restarted the phone.

It's behaving as if I'd restarted my phone. Waaaaa. Short answer though, is no. Thank you.

Jstuts5797 · Jan 27, 2015

Curious... If I plug my phone into my windows PC then go to my computer to list all my drives, my iPhone is listed there. Going into it allows me to view the folder of ,y pics and allows me to copy them over to my PC hard drive. Not sure how or if this would function with your phone in its current state but it might be worth a try.

Also my friend didn't mention what happened beyond he didn't loose all his data. I'll have to check back with him and report here.

----------

Just double checked... , my phone is on the lock screen asking for fingerprint or passcode and it's still allowing me to do this. Have not tried getting my phone to your point though.

klo6 · Jan 27, 2015

Try downloading Picasa from Google on to your computer (its free!), then connect your phone with its USB cable and click on "Upload" in the top left corner of Picasa. There should be a drop down to choose your device and you can pick your phone, then it should be able to upload your pics. I have never had to unlock my phone to upload my pics to Picasa. When I upgraded one of my daughters from a 4s I wanted to copy all of her pics before resetting the phone to trade in but she was in school and couldn't answer what per passcode was. I simply plugged in the phone and used Picasa to upload the pics and had no issues (that is, until I tried to reset it, cause I still needed that darned passcode! it was a "duh" moment! LOL)

Fingers crossed, hopefully this could work for you!

JulesJam · Jan 27, 2015

Jstuts5797 said:
Curious... If I plug my phone into my windows PC then go to my computer to list all my drives, my iPhone is listed there. Going into it allows me to view the folder of ,y pics and allows me to copy them over to my PC hard drive. Not sure how or if this would function with your phone in its current state but it might be worth a try.

Also my friend didn't mention what happened beyond he didn't loose all his data. I'll have to check back with him and report here.

----------

Just double checked... , my phone is on the lock screen asking for fingerprint or passcode and it's still allowing me to do this. Have not tried getting my phone to your point though.

Android was like that until KitKat.

617aircav · Jan 27, 2015

jbachandouris said:
If you read through the wall of text, you will see that OP was drinking at the time and went for a pattern, not a specific number combination.

Sorry. I drink as well but never experienced this.

BriOS · Jan 27, 2015

klo6 said:
Try downloading Picasa from Google on to your computer (its free!), then connect your phone with its USB cable and click on "Upload" in the top left corner of Picasa. There should be a drop down to choose your device and you can pick your phone, then it should be able to upload your pics. I have never had to unlock my phone to upload my pics to Picasa. When I upgraded one of my daughters from a 4s I wanted to copy all of her pics before resetting the phone to trade in but she was in school and couldn't answer what per passcode was. I simply plugged in the phone and used Picasa to upload the pics and had no issues (that is, until I tried to reset it, cause I still needed that darned passcode! it was a "duh" moment! LOL)

Fingers crossed, hopefully this could work for you!

It wont. When you connect the phone while locked, you will need to unlock the phone in order to click "trust this computer" on the phone before the phone can be accessed from windows.

klo6 · Jan 27, 2015

BriOS said:
It wont. When you connect the phone while locked, you will need to unlock the phone in order to click "trust this computer" on the phone before the phone can be accessed from windows.

I've had to do that to open folders directly in Windows, but I've never had to do that to upload to Picasa (maybe because it's web-based? I don't know), and I've been using it for about 5 or 6 years with about 20 various devices. Can't hurt to try...

iPhone 6+: PLEASE help. Forgot passcode, 1 shot left, not backed up :(

macrumors 68000

macrumors 6502a

macrumors 6502

macrumors Nehalem

macrumors G5

macrumors G3

macrumors 6502a

macrumors 6502

macrumors 68020

macrumors 6502

macrumors 68020

macrumors 6502

Suspended

macrumors 6502a

macrumors 6502

macrumors 65816

macrumors 604

macrumors 68030

macrumors 6502

macrumors 6502a

macrumors member

Suspended

Suspended

macrumors member

macrumors member

Our Staff