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Pages 5: A List of What's Missing, Added, & Changed
- Thread starter Jodeo
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Okay, so I was a LONG TIME user of ClarisWorks/AppleWorks (even though the tweaks were pretty minor, I preferred ClarisWorks to AppleWorks). I started with ClarisWorks 2 (I think) and I used the suite all the way through until Apple introduced Pages. (I think I actually contented to use AW for some spreadsheet and database functionality until I got my hands on copies of Excel and FMP.)
So, I'm really curious, other than the loss of functionality in the areas of spreadsheet, database and "painting", in other words, looking specifically at the areas around word-processing and page-layout, how do you find that Pages "neutered" AW? Or is it simply that the introduction of Pages represented the loss of functionality in these other areas that were covered by the suite?
Personally, in word-processing and page-layout, I find Pages to be a much better program than CW/AW ever was. I think that there were a few little things that CW/AW had an advantage with (it seems to me that the early versions of Pages didn't natively support MathType equation insertion), but these were mostly nuisances (in my example, MathType equations could be pasted in but to edit them they had to be copied and pasted back to MathType - no double click to edit).
And, of course, one of the TREMENDOUS improvements was the introduction of Keynote. I did a number of presentations with CW/AW over the years. They were VERY no-frills, because that's about all you could do with CW/AW. But with Keynote, I went from having bottom-of-the-barrel presentations to top-of-the-heap presentations.
Now, all of that being said, I have not upgraded to the new version of Pages because I did see that there are key features that have not made the cut, yet. Well, that's not quite true. I was forced to upgrade in one area. I got a new iPad Air, and when I restored it to load the backup from my iPad 2 (where I had only ever had the previous version of Pages and had been rigorous about not updating it), it seems that iTunes had downloaded the updated version of Pages, so I didn't have the option of keeping the earlier version. Now Pages on my iPad is almost worthless because it is completely incompatible with the version of Pages on my Mac. On the Mac, it keeps the old version of Pages around, but not on the iPad. This, more than anything, has pissed me about the way Apple has handled this update process.
Clarisworks was neutered when they removed database capabilities from it in Pages and did not replace it with anything. Now they have removed the bookmarks abilities from Pages. I find bookmarks to be essential for my organization text documents and I refuse to use the newer version with this lose of capability.
Okay. Yes, I'll agree with you, to a point. The fact that Apple has never made a real DB component to iWork is a big oversight on their part. However, I must say that the DB component in CW/AW was one of the weakest pieces. Yes, you could do things like mail merge, but the DB functionality itself was very, very weak. When I finally had to migrate to FMP, I discovered, much to my dismay, that CW/AW DB component had NO EXPORT CAPABILITY!! I had to manually reenter data from several DBs into my new, almost identical FMP databases. Needless to say, I was pissed.
Now, when Bento came out, I was really hoping that Apple would see the light and buy Bento from FM, much the way they bought CW from them, and then provide proper hooks into their other iWork applications. Bento really had some promise, but it lacked a lot of the polish that the other iWork applications have generally had. I had hoped to see a number of improvements over time, many of which I had hoped to see come about when Apple bought it, bringing it more in parity with the rest of iWork. But, not only has that not happened, but FM has now EOLed Bento, leaving that same gaping hole in the area of a consumer/small business level, easy to use DB application on the Mac.
I know how to use FMP, and I've built quite a number of DBs with it, but it is not that easy to use (though far easier and more intuitive that Access, IMO), not to mention the fact that it is obscenely expensive, from the perspective of the consumer/small business owner (yes, from the medium size and larger businesses and enterprise, it's actually quite reasonable for the level of power it brings, but that power is usually not wanted, needed or utilized by consumers or small business owners). And, of course, the greatest strength of any DB application is going to come is with hooks into other office apps, which nothing does a good job with right now.
So, yes, the lack of replacement of the DB functionality from CW/AW has been a terrible oversight on Apple's part, but the DB component itself needed to be out to pasture, as it was so weak...
I use Pages to publish a newsletter. This has really messed up my current issue. Things just won't do what they did.
What is wrong with a tool bar above the text? Come on, Apple. Listen to your customers!
What is wrong with a tool bar above the text? Come on, Apple. Listen to your customers!
MacBooks are wide screen now so there's more real estate on the sides for the tools you need. Do a comparison between Word and Pages. You will see more or your document in Pages without the top toolbars.
Am I the only person who likes the inspector in iWork 09? For multiple documents and/or muscle memory it is way faster than controls that move with pages and are duplicated for every document you are editing.
Can't they at least make it 'tear off' for those that want to work fast on multiple documents?
Can't they at least make it 'tear off' for those that want to work fast on multiple documents?
Just wondering how many of the missing features listed here are back in the most recent release of Pages. I'm still using 4.3 and won't update until some return. Mostly layout things like tables in headers. I have a HUGE library of documents created through 4.3 that lose critical sections when opened with 5.
Would love to see a list of features removed in one column of a table with a second column indicating that the given item was added back. Given all the flack Apple received when they EOL'ed that beloved app we knew as Pages, it would be good of them to at least let us hold-outs see the progress of the missing feature returns. I'll just keep checking back.
Would love to see a list of features removed in one column of a table with a second column indicating that the given item was added back. Given all the flack Apple received when they EOL'ed that beloved app we knew as Pages, it would be good of them to at least let us hold-outs see the progress of the missing feature returns. I'll just keep checking back.
Same as above
I'm on Pages 4.3 and am thinking of upgrading to the new Pages.
I'm a simple user. Mostly one page documents for financials, health, recipes, things like that.
The thing is, I'm used to 4.3 and how it works. I can get the new Pages for free, but I don't want to go backwards, if that makes any sense.
I'm on Pages 4.3 and am thinking of upgrading to the new Pages.
I'm a simple user. Mostly one page documents for financials, health, recipes, things like that.
The thing is, I'm used to 4.3 and how it works. I can get the new Pages for free, but I don't want to go backwards, if that makes any sense.
Unless more seamless interoperability between OSX and iOS is important to you, there is no benefit to upgrading in my opinion.
Depending upon what you do on that "one page", the new Pages could cause a significant increase in the amount of work required to produce that page. For example, the latest version of Pages DOES NOT support linked text boxes.
I heavily rely on Pages 4.3. I have created some tri-fold brochures with it that were surprisingly easy to create and quite flexible in design that would be virtually impossible to reproduce with the latest version of Pages.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Impressive thread. I too thought the prior version of Pages was/is fantastic and can't believe the "reboot" thinking on Apple's part. Sure, I understand the focus on the iToys means they can arrive at ideas like making somewhat seamless functionality between OS X and iOS but wow(!) what a tradeoff. IMO, what was a relatively simple, "it just works" DTP application went too far toward the iOS version (and iOS limitations).
That said, a few questions for those who valued the layout side of the program:
1. Since the layout side probably doesn't come back given the guiding force of maintaining functionality with iDevices, what's the best alternative software? I've been looking at BeLight's offerings and wondering if their http://www.belightsoft.com/products/printworks/overview.php could be the best Pages alternative (balancing good DTP power with novice friendly functionality). If anyone has already made that switch, what are the main things missing in Printworks vs. Pages 09?
2. If not Printworks, what is the better alternative that does not involve a Quark or Indesign learning curve (the best DTP junior app that non-publishers could pick up in an afternoon or two)?
3. Anyone with a Yosemite beta tested Pages 09 throughly to see if it will still work without glitches? In other words, will those of us still using the old version be able to hang on to it for one more OS X generation?
Thanks for any answers.
That said, a few questions for those who valued the layout side of the program:
1. Since the layout side probably doesn't come back given the guiding force of maintaining functionality with iDevices, what's the best alternative software? I've been looking at BeLight's offerings and wondering if their http://www.belightsoft.com/products/printworks/overview.php could be the best Pages alternative (balancing good DTP power with novice friendly functionality). If anyone has already made that switch, what are the main things missing in Printworks vs. Pages 09?
2. If not Printworks, what is the better alternative that does not involve a Quark or Indesign learning curve (the best DTP junior app that non-publishers could pick up in an afternoon or two)?
3. Anyone with a Yosemite beta tested Pages 09 throughly to see if it will still work without glitches? In other words, will those of us still using the old version be able to hang on to it for one more OS X generation?
Thanks for any answers.
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It mostly works, though I don't use Pages' fancy page layout stuff so there may be things I don't notice. The toolbar looks ugly because the formatting bar doesn't match the Yosemite UI. What's annoying for me is that the share menu with Mail is broken, so I have to do this ridiculous export song-and-dance if I want to share as a word doc.
As a long-term user I see this is all a part of a bigger 'problem' with Apple at the moment & I'd love to know what is driving it.
Whether it be the OS or desktop Apps features that are useful are being removed & it's hard to describe it as being anything but a dumbing down.
Making the OS operate like an iDevice seems to be the objective.
For example one I found in Pages 5 (not sure if it's true for the Yosemite version) was that in previous versions when you needed to change the existing date in a document or update the date in a template you could highlight the date and right-click to reveal a menu with the very handy 'Update date...' option. That's now been removed.
It's the removal of these simple & useful things that really p**s people off.
Like changing the totally logical 'Save as...' to the somewhat baffling 'Export'.
Like removing the folder option of opening folders in a new window.
Like changing the highly visible coloured file/folder name highlights to difficult to see coloured dots and it goes on...
What makes it infuriating is these things aren't just changed or hidden they are often purged from the OS competently.
Okay, so the 20-something script-kiddie working in Apple's labs doesn't use a function, is that reason enough for it's removal?
I know some would argue ..."it's an evolution so get with it!" but sorry, change for changes sake is not an evolution & when smart and advanced features are removed from an App or the OS then that's a devolution.
When I see useful, functional & extensive right-click menus replaced by slick but near-empty & virtually useless menus then really... don't try to tell me this is a good thing or a forward step.
If I have to perform a task and need to take 3 or 4 steps using a range of keyboard shortcuts or whatever when it could previously be done in one-click then sorry, that screws with my workflow.
When functions I need are removed likewise.
Anyhews.. just my take... rant over
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Pages 5.n.n - Lost Features
Can't see any mention here of the 'Insert Filename' option. This is a great option if you want hard copy with the location of the file on it. Saves searching through thousands of files!
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Can't see any mention here of the 'Insert Filename' option. This is a great option if you want hard copy with the location of the file on it. Saves searching through thousands of files!
Can't see any mention here of the 'Insert Filename' option. This is a great option if you want hard copy with the location of the file on it. Saves searching through thousands of files!
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Can't see any mention here of the 'Insert Filename' option. This is a great option if you want hard copy with the location of the file on it. Saves searching through thousands of files!
FileMaker is an entirely Apple owned company so Apple would not be buying Bento from FileMaker.
Similarly Claris was a software spinoff from Apple and had bought FileMaker from another company, so Apple could not have bought ClarisWorks from FileMaker. Apple later brought all of Claris's other software in-house, and changed Claris's name to FileMaker, with FileMaker as its sole product.
You could export the data from ClarisWorks to a tab/comma delimited text file which is importable by most Databases.
The database may have been weak, it was a flat database, but that made it perfectly suited to its main use of merging entries into the rest of the ClarisWorks/AppleWorks suite.
Sometimes simple is best. ClarisWorks/AppleWorks strength did not come from its parts which were mostly basic, but their integration. Unfortunately Apple's attempts at upgrading it were killed stone dead, not once but twice when Microsoft poached the entire development team to create its own basic office suite, Microsoft Works. Apple went on to create its own skunkworks suite, concealing the development from Microsoft, which turned into the iWork trio: Keynote, Pages and Numbers.
FileMaker whilst owned by Apple has an unfortunate stranglehold on the Mac database market, which it does little to advance. It integrates better with Microsoft software and Windows technology than it does with anything on the Mac. In fact it is virtually an island of its own making on the Mac.
I agree an affordable, but functional database is desperately needed on the Mac but that is not in the interests of FileMaker which both gives and gets little love on the Mac. IMHO it is one of those applications that people buy and use purely out of habit and because its users have become captured in its rather tiny ecosystem. Apple leaves FileMaker as a rather lucrative and unchallenged subsidiary.
My dream would be to have what BeOS had, where everything in the OS was part of a Database and manipulatable. BeOS is getting a revival by volunteers under the name of Haiku. I don't know where that is up to at this stage but think it is under-resourced and making slow progress.
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Not really, there are still an enormously long list of missing features and bugs as well as forehead smacks in the UI.
It has actually got worse as Pages 5.5.2 and the rest of the newest iWork Apps only work in Yosemite and their files can't be opened by the previous versions, even other v5 Pages, without exporting them.
Obviously that is a PITA for exchanging files with anybody and makes the small Mac market even less compatible. If that was humanly possible.
Users should just continue using Pages '09 which works fine on everything from Snow Leopard up to Yosemite as well as exports and imports better from MsOffice, and therefore is vastly more compatible than Pages 5.5.2, as well as vastly more functional. Obviously Apple is not going to go back in any way to either the format or functionality of Pages '09 but it will do until something better comes along. Pages 5.x is not that "something better".
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Can't open files created in a previous version of Pages?
I can't open files created in a previous version of Pages. Can this be true?
Why would anyone compose anything on Pages, knowing that you won't be able to open it next time Apple upgrades?
I am gobsmacked! When they "rebuilt it from the ground up" they didn't get very far up. This is one time when their overworked word "incredibly" is actually appropriate.
I can't open files created in a previous version of Pages. Can this be true?
Why would anyone compose anything on Pages, knowing that you won't be able to open it next time Apple upgrades?
I am gobsmacked! When they "rebuilt it from the ground up" they didn't get very far up. This is one time when their overworked word "incredibly" is actually appropriate.
From what I can tell, he's saying that you can't open them in a previous version. So once they get saved by the newest version, you can't move back.
On another note, I wanted to hijack this thread. I was thinking of moving from Word to Pages when I get my MBP this Friday. What would I really be missing for my use of writing fan fiction and RP forum posts?
I thought I was quite clear.
It is beyond lack of backwards file compatibility, it is also lack of Application/OSX version compatibility. They all have to match up, file, Pages version and OS X version. So if you have to swap files with anyone else, good luck! The file requires the correct version of Pages and the correct version of Pages requires the correct version of OS X.
Except the previous Pages '09 which runs on virtually all Macs/OSXs, but Apple no longer sells or supports it.
Pages 5.x screws up older files to varying degrees because it has over 100+ features removed and simply can't reproduce those. It does a haphazard job of opening and exporting Word files. It can work, not perfectly, sometimes, and other times Word for Windows can't even open the exported Word file from Pages 5.x.
It is buggy, gets very slow with large or complex documents, and you stand a good chance of not being able to open your own files or not finding them. Its hugely bloated files are unparseable and incompatible with 3rd party servers. If you use it in conjunction with iCloud that will synch bad copies across all your hardware and may be the cause of additional problems in itself.
Apple has clearly shown that they have no hesitation in trashing key applications and the files they produce. In fact they show no interest at all in your work or its security. Certainly if you are a professional of any kind you are not a lucrative customer base for them. They now are strictly chasing the mass consumer who can barely manage anything and has virtually no idea what is going on but likes shiny things and superficial looks. The consumer never notices that it doesn't actually do much, because they don't do much themselves.
I write books, but unless they are illustrated, they are better written in a simpler, faster, more efficient TextEditor or anything that uses a parseable, compatible file format that can be rescued if something goes wrong. Publishers want .doc/x, .rtf* or .txt files not files put together by amateur designers, that they have to undo and redo again.
If you don't want to use Word, have a look at LibreOffice [free] or any of the dozens of TextEditors or WordProcessors for the Mac.
Unfortunately nothing else yet does what Pages '09 does, which is quickly and efficiently put together heavily designed DTP documents with hyperlinks, media, and full spreadsheets. Which is why I still continue to use Pages '09 in Yosemite.
Late this year Affinity Publisher will be out and judging on Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo, it should be well worth looking at. So far we don't know if it will do everything Pages '09 does. But at least it will run on Macs and won't be an Apple product, so will be relatively safe.
* Just another thing Pages 5.x won't do.
I'm a heavy user of iWork '09 and have been testing the waters with LibreOffice... mostly because of it's cross-platform nature. I also want to have an exit strategy if I find myself unable to use iWork '09 due to OSX incompatibility. It's been a mixed bag so far, requiring a lot of "re-thinking" how I do things.
I continue to be surprised at how much of the functionality seems to be unique to Pages '09.
We are probably on the same page. LibreOffice offers functionality and compatibility but has a UI only its mother could love.
It is an enormous shame what Apple has done to wonderful software that many users came to depend on.
But Apple is Apple. It is going steadily through their portfolio of Apps and doing the same thing to all of them. I am just losing Aperture as well.
Not many Pro Apple Apps left. Without their interoperability each one left grows ever less useful.
The landlord is trashing the neighbourhood because he wants you out and somebody more amenable and profitable in your place.
Here's an update...
I have had great success using Pages in iWork 09 to create multi-page booklets that uses standard Letter paper (8.5" x 11") folded in half. Linked text boxes are vital for this as the text needs to flow in a"zig-zag" pattern from right hand column to the left on the next page, to right on the page after that etc. (and then back up)
This is impossible with the latest Pages (version 5). It requires manually cutting and pasting text into individual boxes. If text is inserted or removed, then each textbox must be manually edited to reflect the changes. tolerable with a few pages, practically impossible for more than that.
I have the need to create another such booklet. I was determined to attempt it in LibreOffice. After spending a few hours poking around the software and searching the web, I learned that this is possible with LibreOffice.
Although one cannot link textboxes, FRAMES can be linked. Turns out that using frames is preferable to textboxes anyways because they are more flexible.
Mission accomplished. I'm delighted with the results. It required only slightly more effort than my approach in Pages 4.x but with greater flexibility, consistency, and control.
I'm sharing this for those who are in similar situations... relying on iWork 09 for this type of stuff.
Why does every update recently say "This update contains stability improvements and bug fixes"? Are they doing nothing beyond that?
In a word, no. In a few more words, Apple is attempting to keep feature parity between iOS and OSX versions. I expect there to be a functional upgrade when OSX El Cap and iOS 9 are released. As for how much function will be added... probably far less than many of us would like.