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Old Sep 22, 2010, 12:14 AM   #1
Scalfani
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Sold iPhone 4 on eBay- now got a chargeback! Scam

I know there are a lot of these situations posted before, but I have never seen the paypal chargeback issue discussed where now I have a negative balance in paypal.

here is the scenario:

I sold my iPhone 4 on Ebay for pretty close to $700. The buyer *seemed* legit (good feedback, good communication throughout, left positive feedback for me). Now 2 weeks later he is filing a claim with paypal that the charge on his credit card was unauthorized. This means I owe paypal $700 and have no phone. He never once contacted me with any issues (that's because there are no REAL issues). I emailed him asking about this claim and surprise, no response.

How in the world can ebay and paypal do this????? He HAD to of authorized it since HE signed for the package.

I have all receipts for shipping, including insurance tags AND online proof that he himself signed for the package.

I am just wondering how this will turn out and if I can file criminal charges against him in his city in Florida (I live in another state). He can't get away scott free, can he? I assume I will never see the phone again regardless if he wins or not.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 12:22 AM   #2
m3coolpix
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You should call Paypal directly ASAP. Give them copies of everything you have for documentation.

They can and do investigate chargebacks like this. Just had one turned in my favor. Takes time.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 12:25 AM   #3
Mr Kram
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I'm sure that he would need some proof that he sent the phone back to you to validate the claim.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 12:29 AM   #4
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This sort of crap is why I avoid ebay like the plague.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 12:29 AM   #5
Applejuiced
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What really sucks is that people get away with that all the time.
And once he does a chargeback with his credit card paypal is out of the money and they automaticly try to get it off you.
Even though you received positive feedback, got the tracking entered on ebays and paypals system etc...
They dont even communicate to try to get your side of the story before they do a chargeback.
Let us know how it plays OP.
Hope it works out in the end.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 12:31 AM   #6
calvy
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It's a chargeback, and quite possible that he bought the phone with a stolen credit card, and then the owner of the card filed a claim.

And I agree, I hate eBay, I just wish there were a good alternative. Sometimes Craigslist just doesn't work.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 12:38 AM   #7
Scalfani
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvy View Post
It's a chargeback, and quite possible that he bought the phone with a stolen credit card, and then the owner of the card filed a claim.

And I agree, I hate eBay, I just wish there were a good alternative. Sometimes Craigslist just doesn't work.
I thought of this that he bought it with a stolen credit card, however the paypal chargeback specifically says the buyer issued the claim. So if it was a stolen credit card it wouldn't be the buyer filing the claim. It just doesn't add up.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 12:38 AM   #8
Applejuiced
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Did you ship it to his paypal verified address?
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 12:44 AM   #9
Mr Kram
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Originally Posted by Scalfani View Post
I thought of this that he bought it with a stolen credit card, however the paypal chargeback specifically says the buyer issued the claim. So if it was a stolen credit card it wouldn't be the buyer filing the claim. It just doesn't add up.
I never thought of that, but at this point, if he had a reputable CC, they would probably eat the charge and do the investigation.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 12:47 AM   #10
Scalfani
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Did you ship it to his paypal verified address?
yes
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 12:48 AM   #11
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I dont see how this wouldnt go in your favor but still very frustrating to say the least.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 01:04 AM   #12
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Contact your local police. Have them take a report for wire fraud. Get copies of the report and send them to paypal and the buyer. Let the buyer know that you intend to have a warrant issued for his arrest if he does not pay for or return your phone. If he doesn't get with the district attorney and get the warrant. Send a copy to his local law enforcement agency.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 01:08 AM   #13
deannnnn
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As soon as you show PayPal proof of delivery, then you get the money back. Show proof, automatically win. Get on the phone with them now!!!
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 01:15 AM   #14
calvy
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I dont see how this wouldnt go in your favor but still very frustrating to say the least.
I just spent some time reviewing the paypal policies after selling some tickets to the ACL music festival on eBay. And from what I read, in a chargeback, paypal is at the mercy of the credit card company. And so their "seller protection" really doesn't apply. They claim they will help you face the credit card company, but can't guarantee anything.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 01:19 AM   #15
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As long as you shipped to the verified address and have proof of delivery you should be okay. Paypal may ask for documents provide everything they request. They will then file an appeal with the credit card company on your behalf. If you are lucky the company will decide in your favor. Usually if the purchaser was the owner of the account you will get your money back. If not they will deny the appeal and then it's up to Paypal Seller Protection. The whole process can take anywhere from 30 days to 6 months. As a regular seller on eBay I've had to deal with this a few times now and it was decided in my favor each time.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 01:19 AM   #16
Scalfani
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Originally Posted by deannnnn View Post
As soon as you show PayPal proof of delivery, then you get the money back. Show proof, automatically win. Get on the phone with them now!!!
I just scanned all documentation (USPS mailing receipt, stamped insurance tag) and uploaded it to the paypal claim. I also included a PDF of the USPS online tracking and signature confirmation. I guess I just have to wait...I will call paypal too to confirm everything.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 01:23 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvy View Post
I just spent some time reviewing the paypal policies after selling some tickets to the ACL music festival on eBay. And from what I read, in a chargeback, paypal is at the mercy of the credit card company. And so their "seller protection" really doesn't apply. They claim they will help you face the credit card company, but can't guarantee anything.
Paypal may give your money back under Seller Protection if the appeal isn't decided in your favor.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 01:47 AM   #18
solius
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http://www.paypalsucks.com/index.shtml

Dude this is why I only use Google checkout anymore. I hope you get your money back but more often than not the credit company rules against seller and PayPal can do nothing. They just charge you for it because according to their Terms of Service you are responsible for paying them back the money that the cc company takes back. Just Google your specific problem its happened many times already.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 03:10 AM   #19
iPhonedHome
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DEATH to eBay and PayPal!
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 04:34 AM   #20
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No offense to anyone who has said that PayPal sucks but think of it from a buyers point of view.
Imagine you had your account compromised or credit card stolen, this is the whole purpose that chargebacks are possible. It may not be the best idea and certainly doesn't help the seller out but that's why it's there.

I understand what the OP is going through as I've sold a number of iPhones on eBay and a number of times the buyers have disputed (I sell damaged/refurbished so the quality isn't brand new and is always stated in my listings)
As long as the OP can prove that the person who signed for the package was the paypal account holder and it was sent to a verified address I don't see why PayPal would not refund the money back to the OP. PayPal do not ignore sellers but they do make it a real pain when things like this happen.

OP: Hang in there, you'll more than likely get your money back from what you said you've got proof of.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 08:33 AM   #21
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Let's not forget, the guy left POSITIVE FEEDBACK! What the hell?
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Old Dec 30, 2011, 10:13 AM   #22
funnyatleast
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couldn't you somehow report his IMEI or something so he can't at least use the phone?

i am assuming there is some type of useful information on back of the box that you can use unless you didn't write down.

For general information: is there any info on back of the box hat you could use?

Last edited by funnyatleast; Dec 30, 2011 at 10:23 AM.
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Old Dec 30, 2011, 10:23 AM   #23
OneMike
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They don't IMEI block.

This thread is over 3 months old though so I'm sure it's done. Wonder how it turned out?
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Old Dec 30, 2011, 10:26 AM   #24
Chasbmw
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This happened to me, read the PayPal seller protection pages very carefully and scan and send to PayPal all the info thar they require. If you can prove that the item was delivered to the verified address than you are in with a good chance of getting your money back.
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Old Dec 30, 2011, 10:40 AM   #25
phpmaven
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Originally Posted by RoadWins View Post
Contact your local police. Have them take a report for wire fraud. Get copies of the report and send them to paypal and the buyer. Let the buyer know that you intend to have a warrant issued for his arrest if he does not pay for or return your phone. If he doesn't get with the district attorney and get the warrant. Send a copy to his local law enforcement agency.
You're kidding right? The police will not get involved in a case like this. You MIGHT be able to get them to take a report, but that's as far as it will go. Try to straighten it out with Paypal, that's your only option. If you can't get it fixed that way. lick your wounds and move on.

I'm an online merchant and we occasionally get people who use stolen credit cards and we get charged back. There isn't a thing you can do about it once it happens. Of course there is plenty you can do to make sure you don't get burned in the first place, but once it happens, you're hosed.
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