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Old Sep 30, 2010, 08:40 AM   #1
newagemac
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New Apple TV DOES Handle 1080P

http://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=18102

From the Handbrake Forum:

Quote:
Like Terc Iím running a variety of tests on my ATV2 to find its limits. One very interesting thing Iíve found so far is that iTunes accepts 1080p content and it can be streamed to the ATV2. In fact, the only thing Iíve been able to get the ATV to stumble on has been 1080p material.

So the old Apple TV would play 720p but would struggle if the bitrates and frame rates were too high (although it could handle higher than Apple's stated specs) and couldn't play any 1080p at all. The new one appears to handle any 720p video you can throw at it as well as 1080p up to a certain limit. So once again, Apple appears to be very conservative in its stated specs.

This is excellent news for all those who want to keep their content in 1080p. I'm sticking with 720p as the storage/convenience/quality ratios work out better for me. The only 1080p I plan to use is Blu Ray discs until internet speeds, storage, and processor speeds improve drastically. I tried editing some 1080p video once and it was a pain in the butt on a Core 2 Duo processor and storing it would have required paying twice as much in hard drives.

Still, I wonder what the 1080p limit is compared to the limit for other comparably priced boxes which claim to handle 1080p? Because as we all know, claiming to be able to handle 1080p and handling it well are two completely different things.
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 08:50 AM   #2
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Its not displaying 1080p, its downscaling the picture like when you change a video's window size on your computer. Opposite of the gimmick used on DVD players.
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 08:56 AM   #3
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WD TV Live comes with 500MHz CPU, 333MHz coprocessor and 333MHz DSP.

Boxee Box has 1.2GHz Intel Atom CE 4100.

The new TV seems to be quite powerful if the A4 is running at full 1GHz. I don't know what bitrates the boxes above can handle but they claim themselves to be fully 1080p. It's also up to the software
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 08:59 AM   #4
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 09:02 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300D View Post
Its not displaying 1080p, its downscaling the picture like when you change a video's window size on your computer. Opposite of the gimmick used on DVD players.
The important finding here is that the A4 is capable of decoding 1080p. The actual decoding is the most intense part of playing a video. I can't make flash video play any smoother if I zoom out in the browser a couple of times.

I know what you're saying, it's pointless if the output resolution of the Lowtide.app is 720p, but perhaps some hack or even Apple might enable (gasp!) proper 1080p output.
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 09:06 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by 300D View Post
Its not displaying 1080p, its downscaling the picture like when you change a video's window size on your computer. Opposite of the gimmick used on DVD players.
Where did I claim it displays 1080P? I said it plays 1080p video. You might want to reread my post.

There are people with 1080P content and they just want to play that content on their Apple TV without having to reencode and/or store two different huge HD files. If the Apple TV does play the file, it makes it far more convenient for them.

It also shows how capable the A4 processor is. Being able to decode 1080P is the hardest part. Whether or not content is displayed at that resolution is trivial in comparison technically.
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 09:18 AM   #7
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To be honest, I'm more excited by the fact that this means I can create some super high quality 720p video using Handbrake now and not have to worry about whether the Apple TV can handle bitrates that large. I really see no point in 1080p if 720p bitrates can go over 30mbps average on the Apple TV's A4 processor like the people posting in the Handbrake forum are claiming.

High bitrate 720p is indistinguishable to me from 1080 even on my 60" Sony DLP.
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 09:24 AM   #8
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The A4 chip, which is based of ARM Cortex-A8 is capable of decoding 1080p. There is an ARM Cortex-A8 device called Amex Digital MP-501 which can playback HD movies at 1080p.

http://www.slashgear.com/amex-digital-mp-501-boasts-smallest-1080p-media-player-title-1898157
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 09:27 AM   #9
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So you really can just add m4vs with 1080p h264 in them and the ATV plays them without any hassle? What bitrates have you tried so far?

Damn...swore I wouldn't buy one :/
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 10:28 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Diveflo View Post
So you really can just add m4vs with 1080p h264 in them and the ATV plays them without any hassle? What bitrates have you tried so far?

Damn...swore I wouldn't buy one :/
I second this it would be *awesome* to know what bitrates it could handle and with what codecs. While displaying a video in 1080p would be great, just playing them scaled down still makes the device much more appealing to me.
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 10:31 AM   #11
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That + jailbreak that brings your own TV Shows & movies back to the front of the menue and I'd be sold
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 10:38 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by 300D View Post
Its not displaying 1080p, its downscaling the picture like when you change a video's window size on your computer. Opposite of the gimmick used on DVD players.
Do you know that it downscales to 720p or are you just assuming? That's the question that Berylium raised on the Handbrake forums and I haven't seen anyone test and confirm it yet. I'll be able to test tonight when my Apple TV arrives.
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 10:42 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by newagemac View Post
To be honest, I'm more excited by the fact that this means I can create some super high quality 720p video using Handbrake now and not have to worry about whether the Apple TV can handle bitrates that large. I really see no point in 1080p if 720p bitrates can go over 30mbps average on the Apple TV's A4 processor like the people posting in the Handbrake forum are claiming.

High bitrate 720p is indistinguishable to me from 1080 even on my 60" Sony DLP.
Yeah, this is good news depending on the bitrates. I'll have to mess with this.

I would say though the biggest advantage is you could do 1080p source material to future proof your library. I suppose though you'd still want to find a common denominator for iPad and perhaps iPhone 4.
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 10:44 AM   #14
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I added two 1080p rips via iTunes and played them via shared library. Both played without issue.
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 10:49 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by tropic10 View Post
Do you know that it downscales to 720p or are you just assuming? That's the question that Berylium raised on the Handbrake forums and I haven't seen anyone test and confirm it yet. I'll be able to test tonight when my Apple TV arrives.
I also haven't seen this confirmed and look forward to hearing from someone with a 1080p display that displays the input resolution. Someone did say that they couldn't find the place in the Settings where you select the output resolution (as in the old Apple TV, when 1080p was added eventually), but maybe it's hidden somewhere, or maybe the Apple TV does sync to the highest available resolution even if it's 1080p.

I agree with the other comments that if the chip can decode 1080p H.264 then pushing the actual pixels to the screen should be well within capability.
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 10:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykotic View Post
I added two 1080p rips via iTunes and played them via shared library. Both played without issue.
Could you please use the app MediaInfo on those files and copy&paste the infos here?
Really appreciate it!
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 10:57 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diveflo View Post
Could you please use the app MediaInfo on those files and copy&paste the infos here?
Really appreciate it!
V for Vendetta:
ormat : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom
File size : 3.91 GiB
Duration : 2h 12mn
Overall bit rate : 4 223 Kbps
Genre : Action Movies
Encoded date : UTC 2009-02-13 05:51:08
Tagged date : UTC 2009-02-13 05:51:08

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 2h 12mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 3 957 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 25.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.080
Stream size : 3.67 GiB (94%)
Writing library : x264 core 65 r1066M 045ae40
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=7 / psy_rd=1.0:0.0 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / wpredb=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40(pre) / rc=2pass / bitrate=3957 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=25000 / vbv_bufsize=25000 / ip_ratio=1.40 / pb_ratio=1.30 / aq=1:1.00
Encoded date : UTC 2009-02-13 05:51:08
Tagged date : UTC 2009-02-13 05:53:17

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format version : Version 4
Format profile : LC
Format settings, SBR : No
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 2h 12mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 264.6 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 278 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Stream size : 246 MiB (6%)
Encoded date : UTC 2009-02-13 05:53:04
Tagged date : UTC 2009-02-13 05:53:17





The Bourne Ultimatum:
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom
File size : 3.92 GiB
Duration : 1h 55mn
Overall bit rate : 4 866 Kbps
Genre : Action Movies
Encoded date : UTC 2009-02-20 05:04:54
Tagged date : UTC 2009-02-20 05:04:54

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 1h 55mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 4 604 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 9 603 Kbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.093
Stream size : 3.71 GiB (95%)
Writing library : x264 core 66 r1109M 75b495f
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=7 / psy_rd=1.0:0.0 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=3 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / wpredb=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40(pre) / rc=2pass / bitrate=4604 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=25000 / vbv_bufsize=25000 / ip_ratio=1.40 / pb_ratio=1.30 / aq=1:1.00
Encoded date : UTC 2009-02-20 05:04:54
Tagged date : UTC 2009-02-20 05:09:40

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format version : Version 4
Format profile : LC
Format settings, SBR : No
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 1h 55mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 264.6 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 275 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Stream size : 214 MiB (5%)
Encoded date : UTC 2009-02-20 05:09:19
Tagged date : UTC 2009-02-20 05:09:40
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 11:00 AM   #18
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I just don't understand why can't it just display 1080p
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 11:05 AM   #19
dagomike
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Originally Posted by ssdeg7 View Post
I just don't understand why can't it just display 1080p
Apple TV 3rd Gen.
And iTunes Store is all 720p.
Probably a cost savings also.
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 11:12 AM   #20
Diveflo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykotic View Post
V for Vendetta:
ormat : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom
File size : 3.91 GiB
Duration : 2h 12mn
Overall bit rate : 4 223 Kbps
Genre : Action Movies
Encoded date : UTC 2009-02-13 05:51:08
Tagged date : UTC 2009-02-13 05:51:08

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 2h 12mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 3 957 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 25.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.080
Stream size : 3.67 GiB (94%)
Writing library : x264 core 65 r1066M 045ae40
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=7 / psy_rd=1.0:0.0 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / wpredb=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40(pre) / rc=2pass / bitrate=3957 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=25000 / vbv_bufsize=25000 / ip_ratio=1.40 / pb_ratio=1.30 / aq=1:1.00
Encoded date : UTC 2009-02-13 05:51:08
Tagged date : UTC 2009-02-13 05:53:17

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format version : Version 4
Format profile : LC
Format settings, SBR : No
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 2h 12mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 264.6 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 278 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Stream size : 246 MiB (6%)
Encoded date : UTC 2009-02-13 05:53:04
Tagged date : UTC 2009-02-13 05:53:17





The Bourne Ultimatum:
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom
File size : 3.92 GiB
Duration : 1h 55mn
Overall bit rate : 4 866 Kbps
Genre : Action Movies
Encoded date : UTC 2009-02-20 05:04:54
Tagged date : UTC 2009-02-20 05:04:54

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 1h 55mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 4 604 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 9 603 Kbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.093
Stream size : 3.71 GiB (95%)
Writing library : x264 core 66 r1109M 75b495f
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=7 / psy_rd=1.0:0.0 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=3 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / wpredb=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40(pre) / rc=2pass / bitrate=4604 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=25000 / vbv_bufsize=25000 / ip_ratio=1.40 / pb_ratio=1.30 / aq=1:1.00
Encoded date : UTC 2009-02-20 05:04:54
Tagged date : UTC 2009-02-20 05:09:40

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format version : Version 4
Format profile : LC
Format settings, SBR : No
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 1h 55mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 264.6 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 275 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Stream size : 214 MiB (5%)
Encoded date : UTC 2009-02-20 05:09:19
Tagged date : UTC 2009-02-20 05:09:40
Thanks a lot
Does anyone have some "high quality" encodes with bitrates around 10k and could test those?
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 11:19 AM   #21
spatlese44
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This is fantastic news! I too could care less about 1080P, but the ability to run just about any 720P makes me very happy. Here's my setup:

Apple TV (160 GB)
Mac Mini
EyeTV 250 Plus

I bought all this mostly so I could get rid cable, which I did, but the recordings from the EyeTV never worked with the Apple TV making the EyeTV esentially useless for me. It would play for a while and then start stuttering on the Apple TV, while playing fine on the Mini. Getting out credit card...
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 11:24 AM   #22
Sykotic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diveflo View Post
Thanks a lot
Does anyone have some "high quality" encodes with bitrates around 10k and could test those?
I figured these were lower quality. My higher quality one's are in .mkv or other formats. I'll try and find one to test with.
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 11:32 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diveflo View Post
Thanks a lot
Does anyone have some "high quality" encodes with bitrates around 10k and could test those?
Yes, that's really what we need here. Someone with a really high quality render of 1080p video to test it. If it doesn't work, render it with a bit more compression until you find it's 1080p max specs. I'd love to learn that it can indeed handle 1080p files and that it has enough horsepower to play a pretty good level of quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykotic View Post
I figured these were lower quality. My higher quality one's are in .mkv or other formats. I'll try and find one to test with.
1080HD movie trailers might be a good, quick source.

Or use Handbrake to convert just a minute or two of a highest-quality HD file you have on hand, and then test. If it doesnít play, squeeze the compression a bit more and test again. This would be BIG to learn what the device can really handle, better than 720p30fps.

Also, does your 1080p HDTV give you the ability to verify the resolution of the file it is playing. Vs. the second post in this thread, it would be good to definitively nail down if the TV is pushing out 1920 x 1080 instead of 720p. I would guess it does, because- as others have posted- the hard part is processing the file, not pushing the frames. If your HDTV can do that, you could put that one to bed too (try hitting the info button or similar, while the video is playing).

Last edited by Peace; Sep 30, 2010 at 12:23 PM. Reason: please use multi-quote
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 11:47 AM   #24
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My big hope is for a native AppleTV Air Video app that could do away with all of these concerns, including removing iTunes from the mix.
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Old Sep 30, 2010, 11:59 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
1080HD movie trailers might be a good, quick source.
Both Harry Potter 7 trailers I have in 1080p .mov format played fine.
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