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Old Feb 2, 2012, 11:37 AM   #1
Icaras
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RAGE now available on Mac App Store!

Yes!!

http://www.aspyr.com/news_articles/r...ide-on-the-mac

Thanks ID and Aspyr. Can't wait to jump on this.

Mac App Store link: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/rage-...68808410?mt=12
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 01:02 PM   #2
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Mac App Store... yuck...

Looks like no multiplayer either... yuck...
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 01:05 PM   #3
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Great graphics on the PC. Not many mac owners will have cards to do this game justice.
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 01:19 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by doh123
Mac App Store... yuck...

Looks like no multiplayer either... yuck...
Sorry to hear that. I'm a big Mac app store fan

Does the PC version even have multiplayer?

Edit: Just checked. It does. Well, something is better than nothing for Mac users. Hopefully they'll add it in a future update.
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 01:27 PM   #5
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Sorry to hear that. I'm a big Mac app store fan
shows the future death of the Mac... Apple making completely strict and asinine control over developers, and hurting the business of anyone not in the App Store following their rules.

If your just a normal user and not a developer, you probably think its great... and thats another reason many developers hate it.
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 02:07 PM   #6
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shows the future death of the Mac... Apple making completely strict and asinine control over developers, and hurting the business of anyone not in the App Store following their rules.

If your just a normal user and not a developer, you probably think its great... and thats another reason many developers hate it.
If they hate it so much.. Then why are they using it?
How is it hurting developers?
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 02:41 PM   #7
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If your just a normal user and not a developer, you probably think its great... and thats another reason many developers hate it.
Steam has the better infrastructure, that's undeniable (it actually has one). It's much better for me to integrate Steam into my game and get cross-OS compatibility than to just release a PC version on Steam and OSX version on MAS.

I imagine it'll be down to licensing issues. I thought that such things would have been planned out way in advance, but there you have it.
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 02:45 PM   #8
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If your just a normal user and not a developer, you probably think its great... and thats another reason many developers hate it.
That makes absolutely no sense. If I, assuming a "normal user", think it's great and vote with my wallet, then developers will think its great too. And if the MAS is indeed making money off of this platform, which it is (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/06/...hares-numbers/), then developers will create content for users. Very simple.

Seeing Rage, a popular and high budget title thats only a mere 4 month old, hitting the MAS app store this early is clearly evidence that developers are warming up to the platform.

And as for "normal" users go, Its hard to justify that seeing as how something like Logic Pro was just added, which is an industry standard digital audio workstation used by professional musicians and composers in the music business and in Hollywood. Apparently the MAS is not so simple minded as you thought it out to be.
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 03:06 PM   #9
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That makes absolutely no sense. If I, assuming a "normal user", think it's great and vote with my wallet, then developers will think its great too. And if the MAS is indeed making money off of this platform, which it is (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/06/...hares-numbers/), then developers will create content for users. Very simple.
thats why programs like Microsoft Office and other big name non-Apple ones are there?
The rules of the Mac App Store is great if you want to follow Apples guidelines constantly for the life of your software and do what they say.. including making a special version just for the App Store. It absolutely kills the idea of making cross platform apps easily. Its something Apple wants to require, but doesn't dare require (at least yet) but eventually if they can make it so widely used that hardly anyone looks for anything not in the App Store, many companies could stop making apps that don't want to follow the App store control on their product... that eventually it'll be hard to find anything not in the App Store, limiting what types of things are available. Thats great for the mac if you want the Mac to be just like any other iOS device in the future and kill what the Mac is now.
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Seeing Rage, a popular and high budget title thats only a mere 4 month old, hitting the MAS app store this early is clearly evidence that developers are warming up to the platform.
it shows Aspyr is still trying to sell port games to Mac like before the App Store... and they see the writing on the wall that they will fail if they do not use the App Store, so they are trying to hang on.

I hate the App Store simply because I see a day probably 5 years from now that the Mac will not be anything like it is today and I'll no longer be using it... and I really don't like that idea.
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 03:15 PM   #10
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thats why programs like Microsoft Office and other big name non-Apple ones are there?
The rules of the Mac App Store is great if you want to follow Apples guidelines constantly for the life of your software and do what they say.. including making a special version just for the App Store. It absolutely kills the idea of making cross platform apps easily. Its something Apple wants to require, but doesn't dare require (at least yet) but eventually if they can make it so widely used that hardly anyone looks for anything not in the App Store, many companies could stop making apps that don't want to follow the App store control on their product... that eventually it'll be hard to find anything not in the App Store, limiting what types of things are available. Thats great for the mac if you want the Mac to be just like any other iOS device in the future and kill what the Mac is now.
All of that is pretty irrelevant if you look at sales data, which clearly shows the Mac App store is growing and making both Apple and developers money. Knowing this, I would expect to see more support, with bigger titles and shorter development time frames for future games.

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it shows Aspyr is still trying to sell port games to Mac like before the App Store... and they see the writing on the wall that they will fail if they do not use the App Store, so they are trying to hang on.
Is that why EA, one of the largest profiteering video game company in the world has started bringing their titles to the MAS too? Because they're "hanging on"? Please.

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tI hate the App Store simply because I see a day probably 5 years from now that the Mac will not be anything like it is today and I'll no longer be using it... and I really don't like that idea.
Thats the beauty of it. Choice.
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 03:37 PM   #11
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All of that is pretty irrelevant if you look at sales data, which clearly shows the Mac App store is growing and making both Apple and developers money. Knowing this, I would expect to see more support, with bigger titles and shorter development time frames for future games.
exactly my point. I never said it was bad for profit, in fact its quite the opposite. They are smart enough to let in Ciderized apps for now, which many of the games use... other than that, things like Aspyr ports are nothing new or broadened, just in the store... If everyone is making a ton of money making the Mac just like iOS, then thats what it will end up being... thats great for a phone, and partially a tablet, but for an actual personal computer? Maybe for the people who could currently use an iPad for their main computer just fine (many people more than you'd think). It still shows evidence that eventually the Mac as we know it will be gone.

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Is that why EA, one of the largest profiteering video game company in the world has started bringing their titles to the MAS too? Because they're "hanging on"? Please.
only because they are currently letting Cider ported games in... which is partially against their own list of rules depending how you interpret their rules. EA is willing to take the 30% cut off their profits simply because Apple and everyone else is pushing the mac App Store so much, that eventually no Mac user will even look for a game elsewhere... you act like they have a choice. As soon as Apple doesn't allow Cider ports anymore, EA won't add anything complicated anymore.. just simple stuff like they do for iOS.


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Thats the beauty of it. Choice.
The choice is there... but if you'd listen to what I am saying... I'm talking about the future when the "choice" will be an illusion (or possibly removed from Apple outright). You have the choice to make your program and try to sell it on your own outside of the Mac App Store, or switch all your ways of working to the Apple way, and sell it in their store to be the only way enough people will buy it to be worthwhile... sure today its ok... 5 years from now? It'll basically be Windows and iOS/MacOS type devices that are completely locked down... its the start of the death of the Mac. I'm not saying the Mac won't exist, since they'll probably still use the name, but it won't be the same thing.
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 04:20 PM   #12
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exactly my point. I never said it was bad for profit, in fact its quite the opposite. They are smart enough to let in Ciderized apps for now, which many of the games use... other than that, things like Aspyr ports are nothing new or broadened, just in the store... If everyone is making a ton of money making the Mac just like iOS, then thats what it will end up being... thats great for a phone, and partially a tablet, but for an actual personal computer? Maybe for the people who could currently use an iPad for their main computer just fine (many people more than you'd think). It still shows evidence that eventually the Mac as we know it will be gone.
It's called change. Funny how you completely ignore the fact that Microsoft themselves are trying to mimic Apple's merging of OSes with Windows 7 Mobile, Windows 8, and Metro, not to mention they are also launching a Windows App Store within Windows 8 that also gives them more control.

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only because they are currently letting Cider ported games in... which is partially against their own list of rules depending how you interpret their rules. EA is willing to take the 30% cut off their profits simply because Apple and everyone else is pushing the mac App Store so much, that eventually no Mac user will even look for a game elsewhere... you act like they have a choice. As soon as Apple doesn't allow Cider ports anymore, EA won't add anything complicated anymore.. just simple stuff like they do for iOS.
So....EA likes making money too. Makes sense.

Everything else you've said so far is just mere speculation and not fact. Nothing tells me that users will not have a choice in the future. No evidence tells me Cider ports won't be halted on the Mac App store.


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The choice is there... but if you'd listen to what I am saying... I'm talking about the future when the "choice" will be an illusion (or possibly removed from Apple outright). You have the choice to make your program and try to sell it on your own outside of the Mac App Store, or switch all your ways of working to the Apple way, and sell it in their store to be the only way enough people will buy it to be worthwhile... sure today its ok... 5 years from now? It'll basically be Windows and iOS/MacOS type devices that are completely locked down... its the start of the death of the Mac. I'm not saying the Mac won't exist, since they'll probably still use the name, but it won't be the same thing.
Drama much? The death of the Mac? Really? What? For you, right? It's like a relationship thats falling apart because somethings changed and it's never going to be the same anymore. Thats fine, but let the rest of the world please move on.

And your logic still makes no sense. Did you ever consider the possibility that if the MAS did become the most easily accessible platform for digitally distributed Mac software, then it's quite possible that developers would see more sales than traditional means of distribution, which could make up for Apple's cut of 30%. Don't forget that 30% also saves the developer from handling the up front business part of it, server space, and bandwidth. That's all money saved on their end. And it's not like Amazon or Steam don't take cuts too. They all take cuts. How else would they be in the market of retail?

You sure like to compare how badly it will be when Mac becomes like iOS, but the iTunes app store is one of the greatest business tech success stories of our time. 1/3rd of the App Market revenue is from games alone (http://9to5mac.com/2012/02/02/apple-...ntelligence%29). Why would a developer want to exclude themselves from this pot of gold?
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 04:52 PM   #13
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Is that why EA, one of the largest profiteering video game company in the world has started bringing their titles to the MAS too? Because they're "hanging on"? Please.
Nope, http://www.vgchartz.com/article/8833...-2011-quarter/.
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 05:00 PM   #14
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Would buy if it were available on Steam. Without multiplayer I won't play a dime for it! Plus Mac app store sucks.
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 05:02 PM   #15
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I never specified any quarter to judge them by.

And they are still in the top 5: http://winterfate.hubpages.com/hub/T...s-In-The-World.

Lets just say they're not indie.

Edit: Sorry, bad source. No sales data.
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 05:28 PM   #16
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Great graphics on the PC. Not many mac owners will have cards to do this game justice.
Ick, no. IdTech 5's "megatextures" are a tremendous failure IMHO.

It is a technology designed to make the vistas look better, but up close (as in, while inside a building) the textures look like Quake II. This is a huge issue with an FPS as, who could have guessed, you spend a fair amount of time looking at objects that are relatively near (<15 feet) to your character.

Additionally, the technology used to load such tremendous textures is flawed even on a beastly PC. I had ridiculous pop-in and/or detail level failures that turned this game into an ugly mess.
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 05:45 PM   #17
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It's called change. Funny how you completely ignore the fact that Microsoft themselves are trying to mimic Apple's merging of OSes with Windows 7 Mobile, Windows 8, and Metro, not to mention they are also launching a Windows App Store within Windows 8 that also gives them more control.
yes.. change.. just like Obama preached... Change! we all see how well that change has turned out. Of course its change.. stop pointing out the obvious. I'm just saying its a bad change to actually lose a controllable desktop.... and Developers having a choice of how to make software, not having to use only the tools Apple wants them to use... Apple forces you to use only Cocoa/ObjC in the future (they've already banned many things like Java), well guess what, your apps are gone from the store unless you re-write them. There are many situations that could happen like this when Apple has to much control over developers. As long as the Mac App Store doesn't take over like Apple seems like they want to. Hopefully they'll some day open up the App Store more and let in many different ways to make Apps and not so limited.

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Everything else you've said so far is just mere speculation and not fact. Nothing tells me that users will not have a choice in the future. No evidence tells me Cider ports won't be halted on the Mac App store.
of course its speculation... anything talking about what will happen is speculation, whether it comes from me or you. You saying it won't happen is also speculation. When you have many years in computer and development experience, you might see the little details differently than others, even if you can't explain it all out in a way other people will understand.

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Drama much? The death of the Mac? Really? What? For you, right? It's like a relationship thats falling apart because somethings changed and it's never going to be the same anymore. Thats fine, but let the rest of the world please move on.
If your happy with the Mac being exactly like iOS... thats good for you. Apple will try it as much as they can until it starts hurting sales.

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And your logic still makes no sense. Did you ever consider the possibility that if the MAS did become the most easily accessible platform for digitally distributed Mac software, then it's quite possible that developers would see more sales than traditional means of distribution, which could make up for Apple's cut of 30%. Don't forget that 30% also saves the developer from handling the up front business part of it, server space, and bandwidth. That's all money saved on their end. And it's not like Amazon or Steam don't take cuts too. They all take cuts. How else would they be in the market of retail?
what i'm saying is... if Apple makes sure MAS is the only place (or the only place 90% of their users know about) to get apps, then it hurts developers... when they could sale their software otherwise with a 0% cut to Apple, but they have to redesign all their software, and make a specialized version for MAS to be able to sell enough to make money... this in the long run will actually hurt the chances of developers making software for macs unless they % share gets up much much higher than it is now. Apple is counting on that, which is why they make transitions slow.

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You sure like to compare how badly it will be when Mac becomes like iOS, but the iTunes app store is one of the greatest business tech success stories of our time. 1/3rd of the App Market revenue is from games alone (http://9to5mac.com/2012/02/02/apple-...ntelligence%29). Why would a developer want to exclude themselves from this pot of gold?
I have a feeling you have no idea what goes on to run a computer or in software development. By your logic it doesn't make since that 100% of games aren't already made for the Mac as it is.. why do so many software developers not make Mac versions? Forcing them to make their software in certain non-cross-platform ways and a forced 30% cut helps that?
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 05:47 PM   #18
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Moot points. Megatextures look like **** for an FPS IMO, the game is glitched and buggy and even when it runs the best on a top-notch PC doesn't hold a candle to BF3 or even Gears 3 on a console.
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 06:12 PM   #19
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Ick, no. IdTech 5's "megatextures" are a tremendous failure IMHO.

It is a technology designed to make the vistas look better, but up close (as in, while inside a building) the textures look like Quake II. This is a huge issue with an FPS as, who could have guessed, you spend a fair amount of time looking at objects that are relatively near (<15 feet) to your character.

Additionally, the technology used to load such tremendous textures is flawed even on a beastly PC. I had ridiculous pop-in and/or detail level failures that turned this game into an ugly mess.
How much VRAM does your card have?
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 06:15 PM   #20
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How much VRAM does your card have?
2x 2GB Radeon 6950s in Crossfire. So 2x 2GB (4GB?!).
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Old Feb 2, 2012, 10:27 PM   #21
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2x 2GB Radeon 6950s in Crossfire. So 2x 2GB (4GB?!).
No, not 4GB. Your cards share (duplicate) memory in Xfire, so it's just 2GB. Still, with those cards you should be able to run them on the highest settings (minus AA and AF maxed maybe).
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Old Feb 3, 2012, 01:54 AM   #22
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yes.. change.. just like Obama preached... Change! we all see how well that change has turned out. Of course its change.. stop pointing out the obvious. I'm just saying its a bad change to actually lose a controllable desktop.... and Developers having a choice of how to make software, not having to use only the tools Apple wants them to use... Apple forces you to use only Cocoa/ObjC in the future (they've already banned many things like Java), well guess what, your apps are gone from the store unless you re-write them. There are many situations that could happen like this when Apple has to much control over developers. As long as the Mac App Store doesn't take over like Apple seems like they want to. Hopefully they'll some day open up the App Store more and let in many different ways to make Apps and not so limited.


of course its speculation... anything talking about what will happen is speculation, whether it comes from me or you. You saying it won't happen is also speculation. When you have many years in computer and development experience, you might see the little details differently than others, even if you can't explain it all out in a way other people will understand.


If your happy with the Mac being exactly like iOS... thats good for you. Apple will try it as much as they can until it starts hurting sales.


what i'm saying is... if Apple makes sure MAS is the only place (or the only place 90% of their users know about) to get apps, then it hurts developers... when they could sale their software otherwise with a 0% cut to Apple, but they have to redesign all their software, and make a specialized version for MAS to be able to sell enough to make money... this in the long run will actually hurt the chances of developers making software for macs unless they % share gets up much much higher than it is now. Apple is counting on that, which is why they make transitions slow.


I have a feeling you have no idea what goes on to run a computer or in software development. By your logic it doesn't make since that 100% of games aren't already made for the Mac as it is.. why do so many software developers not make Mac versions? Forcing them to make their software in certain non-cross-platform ways and a forced 30% cut helps that?
That's only one way to see things - and honestly I think you mean good, I wouldn't like myself to see mac going somewhere I don't like. But you're misinterpreting the future, in my opinion. It's not Mac becoming an iOS device, every operating system is now turning slowly in the on-line store model. The fact that Mac is going there first, is totally expectable.

The point is that companies failed to agree/organized in a unified, common place to put their applications. Just think for how many years Steve Jobs was trying to do the same with music, having to fight with all this music industry's ignorance, before finally succeeded. Steam is good (well, not exactly good as there are some really dumb choices on its functionality), but it won't cover every game company - not even close. All operating systems will end up having an online store (in one form or another) for their users, they are actually already moving in that direction.

Just check the Ubuntu S/W Center. Similarities with MAS are so obvious it's not even funny. Same goes with Fedora etc. Windows will follow soon, if not already.
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Old Feb 3, 2012, 02:17 AM   #23
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No, not 4GB. Your cards share (duplicate) memory in Xfire, so it's just 2GB. Still, with those cards you should be able to run them on the highest settings (minus AA and AF maxed maybe).
Heck I can run Rage on Bootcamp (macpro) at 1920x1080 with highest settings minus AA only and this is with a GTX285. Certainly should be able to add AA & AF to the mix if using dual cards.

I kind of got bored playing rage though....
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Old Feb 3, 2012, 02:47 AM   #24
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Seeing Rage, a popular and high budget title thats only a mere 4 month old, hitting the MAS app store this early is clearly evidence that developers are warming up to the platform.
iD has traditionally been good with releasing Mac ports... I can't name any of their games that never made it to Mac, and fairly quick at that.
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Old Feb 3, 2012, 05:01 AM   #25
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I have a feeling you have no idea what goes on to run a computer or in software development. By your logic it doesn't make since that 100% of games aren't already made for the Mac as it is.. why do so many software developers not make Mac versions? Forcing them to make their software in certain non-cross-platform ways and a forced 30% cut helps that?
I get your point and it has some merits don't get me wrong but their are flip sides and I don't think the AppStore is any different to the other stores in having certain rules, compare to a console store you might say they are relaxed even.

Steam: Certain other rules also need to be followed as well with the submission process. You have to use the Steam DRM.

Boxed Copies: Traditional stores take about 70% of the RPP throughout the supply chain leaving the publisher with about 30% of the RRP. That is just figures you can get from a quick google search.

AppStore: Certain rules have to be followed and you have to use Apple's DRM. Interesting fact the version of the game we submit to Apple is also the same one as we sell on a DVD. I won't get into the technical details but once you have got the App Store submission down and learnt the can do's and can't do's with the first few titles the following one get easier as you follow the standard template. It is more work but it's not something huge.

As you can see no solution is perfect and having lots of stores is better than having just one but I don't see the App Store as a barrier to more games in fact with the huge audience it attracts (compared to Steam and other stores) you have a bigger potential audience which means if you make a good game you get more sales and that in turn means more profit which means you can license more and bigger games which if they do well... and the cycle hopefully repeats. More sales for the publishers more games for the customers.

Sure the AppStore will always be the biggest store as Apple run it and it is pre installed into the OS however saying the App Store is bad is like saying the XBox Marketplace is bad or Steam on Windows is bad. Sure things might change in the future but all you can do is make sure you plan for all eventualities you can foresee and react if things change.

I don't personally see "the only App's are AppStore apps" future you are hinting at. Sure I can see the OS giving warnings when you run a none App Store app but I cannot see them being banned in any way to many open source apps like Firefox etc for that to happen.

Edwin
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