Will Intel Macs be Dual Processor??

JasonGough said:

I was wondering, cos the current line of G5s go up to Dual 2.7, and the current 'developer test intel mac system' is a single Intel 3.6.

surely 2.7 x 2, giving 5.4ghz of proccessing will own a 3.6 intel?

Does anyone know if Apple have plans to release the first set of Intel Macs as dual proccessors once development on a single has reached a stable ground?

Any info or ideas about this would be great.

thanx!

Click to expand...

apple has always liked to make a Pro line and a consumer line ie consumer line having single CPU and Pro line having dual CPU's
so yes i think they will have dual CPU's

JasonGough said:

surely 2.7 x 2, giving 5.4ghz of proccessing will own a 3.6 intel?

Click to expand...

Dual 2.7 does not equal 5.4. It just doesn't work like that. Two processors working together don't work as efficiently as a single one of double the speed.

Wes said:

Dual 2.7 does not equal 5.4. It just doesn't work like that. Two processors working together don't work as efficiently as a single one of double the speed.

Click to expand...

Is that because of information sharing or task splitting? Like does the single processor just have more power to handle a task? (i.e. could you explain, i'm interested)

This is a very untechnical post. Just some personal observations.

When hefty programs such as Final Cut or PS are processing large amounts of information (ie, applying filters or rendering), activitiy viewer shows the program using about 160% of my CPU. Assuming 200% would be perfectly 2 times as powerful as 1 processor, you can see performance-wise it's only a little better than 1 and a half processors. However, what I love about dual systems is the system responsiveness. I have never seen a single program use near 200% of the CPU. However, even when PS or FCP is processing, the system remains just as responsive as when idle. I'm not sure if this is due to Mac OS X or the dual processors (I think some of both). I just know the system responsiveness of XP on a single 2.8 will crawl when it is processing something intense. I've never used a multiprocessor XP system, so I can't comment on that.

Hope this helps a little

Most likely the new Intel Powermacs will be Dual Core machines, they use less power and give off less heat then just two processors by themselves. With the Dual Core option you could see 4 processor Powermacs depending on how much the chips cost. It really comes down to economics whether a dual core or dual proc MacIntel will be made.

As posted above, dual proccessors does not increase the proccessing power, it just increases the number of processes that can be processed at that given power.

Having dual procs. is an effect similar to adding more RAM, as it allows you to run more at the same time.

Well given that dual core intels are out already, I would say there is a good possiblity that a dual dual core Power mactel. However, with that much stuff and redesign I must have to say it depends mostly on the bottom line. If it does make it to see the light of day we are looking at a $3500 system baseline easily.

Macmaniac said:

Most likely the new Intel Powermacs will be Dual Core machines, they use less power and give off less heat then just two processors by themselves. With the Dual Core option you could see 4 processor Powermacs depending on how much the chips cost. It really comes down to economics whether a dual core or dual proc MacIntel will be made.

Click to expand...

Dual processor machines will have to be Xeon. Expensive.

cube said:

Dual processor machines will have to be Xeon. Expensive.

Click to expand...

Why. We don't have any idea what chip Apple will use, and there's nothing to say it will be a current chip. PLus, intel is obviously working on dual core technology (I think they sort of already ahve a pentium 4 using this). It really comes down to this: we have absolutely no idea what configuration or chipset apple will be using.

Josh said:

As posted above, dual proccessors does not increase the proccessing power, it just increases the number of processes that can be processed at that given power.

Having dual procs. is an effect similar to adding more RAM, as it allows you to run more at the same time.

Click to expand...

I have to disagree with this. Single processes are able to use both processors at the same time, effectively doubling the number of computations that can be performed per unit time. Of course they almost never use 100% of both CPUs at the same time in real life, but the principle still applies. That's really the same thing that happens when you have one faster processor. Of course there's also the added benefit of being able to run one task on one processor and another on the other processor so that the CPU isn't tied up by one intensive task. If you don't believe me, fire up something pretty intensive like Compressor or a Final Cut Pro render and then open Activity monitor and observe that a single process is using more than 100% of the CPU. In dual processor Macs, more than 100% CPU use indicates performance of more computations per second than a single CPU can perform alone.

mduser63 said:

I have to disagree with this. Single processes are able to use both processors at the same time, effectively doubling the number of computations that can be performed per unit time. Of course they almost never use 100% of both CPUs at the same time in real life, but the principle still applies. That's really the same thing that happens when you have one faster processor. Of course there's also the added benefit of being able to run one task on one processor and another on the other processor so that the CPU isn't tied up by one intensive task. If you don't believe me, fire up something pretty intensive like Compressor or a Final Cut Pro render and then open Activity monitor and observe that a single process is using more than 100% of the CPU. In dual processor Macs, more than 100% CPU use indicates performance of more computations per second than a single CPU can perform alone.

Click to expand...

This is true and is more apparent because these programs have been coded to be multiprocessing aware.

I think it is very likely the Mactels will have dual core processors. For the PM line anyway.

DP is Dead

The Dual CPU days will die with the G5 , There is no need for it anymore. here are the reasons why.

1. Dual core is out, making dual sockets redundant. Unless you are running a highend server.

2. No intel cpu supports dual cpu configuration save for the Xenon and they cost an arm & leg.

3. A dual socket mobo runs over $200 , the system will run too hot.

4. Cost , Dual core seem to cost about 1/3 rd more then thier single core counterparts , with DP you have to pay double the price as you are buying a seperate CPU.

That being said Dual core/multi core is the way of the future. by late 2007-2008 quad cores will be coming. Do we really still need dual sockets
then? This is just winey Mac Geeks wanting a better toy. DP never made it to
mainstream windows for good reason. because it wasn't necessary and it costs too damn much. Apple only adopted it in the 1st place because it was getting killed in the G4 days when it was stuck at 450mhz. now that Apple will be on par with the rest of the industry , it's no longer needed. no one of sound mind is going to pay $3000 for a DP Pentium Mac. That's just stupid.

the question is will they go dual core for the imacs? i don't thing so. at least not in the near future because only few programs take advantage of it and it makes the imac more hot and a lot more expensive

will they use dual "dual core" systems. that would be like 4 processors. for all the video/graphic people that could be interesting. but such a powermac would be $5000. maybe a flagship model or so.

but i guess we will se the usual single cpu imac line and the dual cpu or dual core cpu powermac for the next three years. after that who knows.

it also means that the current line will have an acceptable speed range (more than 50% performance) compared to the new intels for the next two years.

strider42 said:

Why. We don't have any idea what chip Apple will use, and there's nothing to say it will be a current chip. PLus, intel is obviously working on dual core technology (I think they sort of already ahve a pentium 4 using this). It really comes down to this: we have absolutely no idea what configuration or chipset apple will be using.

Click to expand...

I am talking about dual processor, not dual core. Effectively meaning that the only interesting configuration would be dual dual-core for dual processor.

yes, dual cpu's are here to stay, they are required to increase performance as die shrinking is not working how it used to

as to the original poster 2x 2.7GHz != 5.4GHz even a single 2.7GHz G5 would own a single 3.6GHz P4 at most things, p4's suck and apple is not switching for them they were just the only suitable cpu for the dev box i'd bet anyone here £50 that no netburst (p4 or current xeon) will ever go into any shipping mac.

now as for dual cpu's the transition is going to take a while well into late 2007 because thats when the xeons which will go in the powermac will transition to the pentium m architecture and these will be true SMP multicore 64-bit parts.

as steve said it's going to go up the line from the bottom, and thats exactly how intel is going to transition from the P4 to the PM.

cube said:

I am talking about dual processor, not dual core. Effectively meaning that the only interesting configuration would be dual dual-core for dual processor.

Click to expand...

you said " Dual processor machines will have to be Xeon. Expensive." and I'm saying that's not necessarily true because we don't have any clue what intela nd apple will use in these machines. It could be a totally different processor than what they have out now, so its possible apple could use dual core, dual processors, or dual dual core processors (two dual core processors) we have no idea what they are going to be using. So the fact that the Xeon is the only current dual processor configurable processor now doen't necessarily preclude there from being a dual processor mac. I'm not talking about likelihood here, I'm just saying we don't know anything about the processor that will be used really, so we can't talk in absolutes..

We just don't know, I think that the new intel powermac will have at least one dual proc model.

For those who keep talking about a dual intel powermac using Xeon's, I don't believe this to be true. P4 are crippled Xeon's. Xeon is just a marketing term. Add in cache coherency protocol, and a few tweeks, and you have a Xeon.

Josh said:

As posted above, dual proccessors does not increase the proccessing power, it just increases the number of processes that can be processed at that given power.

Having dual procs. is an effect similar to adding more RAM, as it allows you to run more at the same time.

Click to expand...

But I dont understand adding ram also increases the preformance of single operations

strider42 said:

you said " Dual processor machines will have to be Xeon. Expensive." and I'm saying that's not necessarily true because we don't have any clue what intela nd apple will use in these machines. It could be a totally different processor than what they have out now, so its possible apple could use dual core, dual processors, or dual dual core processors (two dual core processors) we have no idea what they are going to be using. So the fact that the Xeon is the only current dual processor configurable processor now doen't necessarily preclude there from being a dual processor mac. I'm not talking about likelihood here, I'm just saying we don't know anything about the processor that will be used really, so we can't talk in absolutes..

Click to expand...

Dream on that Intel is going to make cheap dual processor capable chips. With the move to dual core, this is even less likely.

As long as the future of PC gaming doesn't require expensive dual processors and etc., I don't mind. Having to upgrade a video card is enough as it is.

what timeframe are all of you guys discussing. if we talk about the future powermacs and what chips will be in there it makes a huge difference if we talk one year, two years or more than two years from now.

i personally am only concerned what happens in the next 18 month. after that my mac will be standard speed anyway, after 2 years it may be lower standard, after three+ years i buy a new one.

Get it through your heads

what makes any of you think apple will put a dual processor system in in an Intel mac.

Alienware , Falcon Northwest , Dell XPS or any upper end brand has never produced a Dual Processor system for non business use. they are too freaken expensive. they cost more then G5's.

Try and build a DP Dell server see how much you will end up spending. Don't even mention Opterons.

Dual core is a godsend because of this simple face . you can have better then DP preformance at a fraction of the cost.

I have seen Gateway Pentium D systems sell for $1100 , try that with a DP Power Mac. No one is gonna buy an Intel mac when they see that $3000+ price tag next to the "Intel Inside" sticker on it. you know that same Intel Sticker that will be on that Gateway system thats 1/2 the price right next too it.

I can build an Athlon X2 system for $1400 that will destroy that Dual 2.7ghz G5 in any benchmark. Heck my Athlon 64 system will kill any G5 in any non-multi treaded app. Face the Future DP is dead as far as u and me go . maybe xserve only.