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Old Oct 23, 2012, 02:14 PM   #1
propower
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Why is HD4000 not good enough on 2012 mini?

For me,

Some light photo and video editing, a ton of pro audio work and general web stuff -- maybe a movie

So for the last 10 years, every graphics card I have used (mostly lowly) have been 100% up to the task. HD4000 seems perfectly capable of delivering again... plus triple monitor support if I need it (I I always have at least two mirrored ones)

So... help me understand... I see SO much complaining about this... What is the negative impact to "YOU" of HD4000 graphics. What exactly will be the cost? A little slower screen redraws? A little slower filter application in photoshop? ... Some monitors not work at all? Is it just all about games??
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Last edited by propower; Oct 23, 2012 at 02:53 PM.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 02:18 PM   #2
chiguy20002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by propower View Post
For me,

Some light photo and video editing, a ton of pro audio work and general web stuff -- maybe a movie

So for the last 10 years, every graphics card I have used (mostly lowly) have been 100% up to the task. HD4000 seems perfectly capable of delivering again... plus triple monitor support if I need it (I I always have at least two mirrored ones)

So... help me understand... What is the negative impact to "YOU" of HD4000 graphics. What exactly will be the cost? A little slower screen redraws? A little slower filter application in photoshop? ... Is it just all about games??
I think this may be mostly about gaming, and some applications. It would be helpful to have some direct comparisons between the HD4000 and the 6630M for graphics performance.

I have not used the Mac mini with 6630M at all, but I used bootcamp to run Skyrim on my MacBook Pro with the HD4000, and it seems to run fine on medium/high settings. We will just have to wait and see the comparisons, but the older Mac mini with 6630M is available refurbed for $549, where the new Mac mini with HD4000 is available for $599.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 02:33 PM   #3
VanCleef2012
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Its a step back from the discrete GPU in my Mac Mini! The 6630m is around 25-35% better than the intel4000. Its only right that they release a new Mac Mini with a 25-35% better discrete GPU! I do game a lot on my mac mini, World of Warcraft, Counter-Strike:GO, Starcraft 2, Diablo 3, etc. With the new World of Warcraft the 6630m can't hold up, I've had to turn down a lot of my settings, CS:GO I had to do the same. I would of loved an upgraded GPU but instead it got worse. Now we have to wait and see if the quad core i7 and intel4000 can work together to smooth out FPS and deliver quality graphics.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 02:44 PM   #4
propower
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Last edited by propower; Oct 23, 2012 at 02:49 PM.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 02:46 PM   #5
Poki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by propower View Post
FWIW... Intel 2820QM (the 2.3GHz CPU option) ranks 252nd on PassMark website -- 6330M is 310.
The CPU is not a 2820qm, it's either a i7-3610/15 or, less likely, a i7-3632qm.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 02:49 PM   #6
propower
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Originally Posted by Poki View Post
The CPU is not a 2820qm, it's either a i7-3610/15 or, less likely, a i7-3632qm.
Thanks... I stand corrected...
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 02:50 PM   #7
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It's good enough for me.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 02:55 PM   #8
chiguy20002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanCleef2012 View Post
Its a step back from the discrete GPU in my Mac Mini! The 6630m is around 25-35% better than the intel4000. Its only right that they release a new Mac Mini with a 25-35% better discrete GPU! I do game a lot on my mac mini, World of Warcraft, Counter-Strike:GO, Starcraft 2, Diablo 3, etc. With the new World of Warcraft the 6630m can't hold up, I've had to turn down a lot of my settings, CS:GO I had to do the same. I would of loved an upgraded GPU but instead it got worse. Now we have to wait and see if the quad core i7 and intel4000 can work together to smooth out FPS and deliver quality graphics.
If you are primarily using your Mac mini for gaming, honestly you would probably be better off just getting a Windows PC for that. Don't get me wrong, I really like my MacBook Pro, and I have bootcamp setup with games on that partition, but I find myself not using that for gaming, and instead using an older Windows 7 PC with an upgraded discrete graphics card. It just works better. I use my MacBook Pro for everything but gaming primarily.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 02:59 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by chiguy20002 View Post
If you are primarily using your Mac mini for gaming, honestly you would probably be better off just getting a Windows PC for that. Don't get me wrong, I really like my MacBook Pro, and I have bootcamp setup with games on that partition, but I find myself not using that for gaming, and instead using an older Windows 7 PC with an upgraded discrete graphics card. It just works better. I use my MacBook Pro for everything but gaming primarily.
Yeah, if you want primarily to. But there are many people like me who want to play some mid-class games like Diablo 3 without having to have two (or, if you want a notebook, three) computers in the house ...
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:08 PM   #10
chiguy20002
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Originally Posted by Poki View Post
Yeah, if you want primarily to. But there are many people like me who want to play some mid-class games like Diablo 3 without having to have two (or, if you want a notebook, three) computers in the house ...
You have a good point. For me, it's my MacBook Pro for everything but gaming and an old Windows 7 Desktop PC with an upgraded discrete graphics card just for gaming.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:11 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by chiguy20002 View Post
You have a good point. For me, it's my MacBook Pro for everything but gaming and an old Windows 7 Desktop PC with an upgraded discrete graphics card just for gaming.
Yep, I have a 2009 MacBook Pro that works well, but it is just too damn slow for video editing and photo developing. Gaming works okay, but if I imagine a Mini with a HD4000 on a 2560x1440 display, I can't imagine this works well ... Maybe I simply have to live a year without gaming, but when I'm getting a new one next year I could get an iMac just as well ...
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:18 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Poki View Post
Yeah, if you want primarily to. But there are many people like me who want to play some mid-class games like Diablo 3 without having to have two (or, if you want a notebook, three) computers in the house ...
got that same issue. I have a 27" Cinema Display and would have issues unplugging just to game on a PC. With it.

Did try d3 on the base 2011, ran at everything on low. Was hoping to play some guild wars 2. I'm probably buying the 2.6 quad core, put in a SSD and 16GB ram. May run reasonably if the CPU was a bottleneck for D3 before.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:34 PM   #13
Poki
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Originally Posted by rezinous View Post
got that same issue. I have a 27" Cinema Display and would have issues unplugging just to game on a PC. With it.

Did try d3 on the base 2011, ran at everything on low. Was hoping to play some guild wars 2. I'm probably buying the 2.6 quad core, put in a SSD and 16GB ram. May run reasonably if the CPU was a bottleneck for D3 before.
How many fps did you get? If you got constant 30, it should be possible to play on mid with the same fps on the newer Mini.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by propower View Post

So... help me understand... I see SO much complaining about this... What is the negative impact to "YOU" of HD4000 graphics. What exactly will be the cost? A little slower screen redraws? A little slower filter application in photoshop? ... Some monitors not work at all? Is it just all about games??
It's about 3D rendering which primarily affects gamers.

For people like you and me, it's basically a non-issue...

I was planning on getting the base model but the quad-core mid-level is the way I am going to go.

If I have figured it out correctly, here are the base model and mid-level CPU stats. The first number is the Passmark CPU mark and the second number is the CPU rank (lower number is better):

3210M 2.5 DualCore i5 3995/269

3615QM 2.3 QuadCore i7 6738/101
3720QM 2.6 QuadCore i7 8669/58
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:37 PM   #15
keeponwaitin
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I just feel like it's a terrible trade-off in not having the discrete where before for the same price, it was offered. Maybe it's not possible with the heat of the discrete and quad together (downgrade to 2.1ghz quad?). I don't know. It looks like Intel is the future for mac mini's.

I don't do much gaming so I will be making my purchase, and I guess Haswell is right around the corner
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:38 PM   #16
rezinous
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How many fps did you get? If you got constant 30, it should be possible to play on mid with the same fps on the newer Mini.
Didn't really check the FPS, I hadn't hit Inferno on my Mini before I sold it. Im pretty sure itd be quite low.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:40 PM   #17
Poki
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Originally Posted by keeponwaitin View Post
I just feel like it's a terrible trade-off in not having the discrete where before for the same price, it was offered. Maybe it's not possible with the heat of the discrete and quad together (downgrade to 2.1ghz quad?). I don't know. It looks like Intel is the future for mac mini's.

I don't do much gaming so I will be making my purchase, and I guess Haswell is right around the corner
It would be possible, but it would make the Mini at least 200 bucks more expensive (100 more for a 35W quad-core CPU like the i7-3632qm and 100 for the graphics card).
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:40 PM   #18
chiguy20002
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Originally Posted by Poki View Post
Yep, I have a 2009 MacBook Pro that works well, but it is just too damn slow for video editing and photo developing. Gaming works okay, but if I imagine a Mini with a HD4000 on a 2560x1440 display, I can't imagine this works well ... Maybe I simply have to live a year without gaming, but when I'm getting a new one next year I could get an iMac just as well ...
Depending on what is important to you, and what you can't wait for determines what you are going to get. If this upgrade of the Mini isn't quite powerful enough, you can wait until next year to see. Or you can just buy a new Windows Desktop PC now for gaming, then upgrade your MacBook next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezinous View Post
got that same issue. I have a 27" Cinema Display and would have issues unplugging just to game on a PC. With it.

Did try d3 on the base 2011, ran at everything on low. Was hoping to play some guild wars 2. I'm probably buying the 2.6 quad core, put in a SSD and 16GB ram. May run reasonably if the CPU was a bottleneck for D3 before.
It's very hard to get a computer that does everything for you, but the 2011 mid level or the base 2012 may work better for gaming than the base 2011. After much experimentation with my MacBook Pro, old Windows 7 laptop, old Windows 7 desktop, I have concluded that the old Windows 7 desktop works best for gaming, over the other two, and my MacBook Pro works best for everything else.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:54 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by chiguy20002 View Post
It's very hard to get a computer that does everything for you, but the 2011 mid level or the base 2012 may work better for gaming than the base 2011. After much experimentation with my MacBook Pro, old Windows 7 laptop, old Windows 7 desktop, I have concluded that the old Windows 7 desktop works best for gaming, over the other two, and my MacBook Pro works best for everything else.
Yeah I agree, just getting the maxed out Mini. Will do some tests. Worst case scenario, I hate it, I'll sell it in December and buy an iMac.

From what I'm reading online about the HD 4000 it seems reasonable enough.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:55 PM   #20
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HD4000 is a lot better then the 3000! I think apple made the right move. Next year will be even a bigger jump in graphics with Haswell.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 04:06 PM   #21
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This HD4000 can Get good rendering Time with finalcut and a fast work with lightroom and tons of raw?
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 04:07 PM   #22
Poki
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This HD4000 can Get Toke rendering Time with finalcut and a fast work with lightroom and tons of raw
Sure it can render big RAW files nearly as fast as a "good" GPU?
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 04:09 PM   #23
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I will use with 2550x1440 res ,can work good ?
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 04:10 PM   #24
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I will use with 2550x1440 res ,can work good ?
For 2D things (e.g. no gaming), sure. Motion 5 could be a problem, though.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 04:32 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by propower
A little slower filter application in photoshop?
Is that the case? I have a Mac Pro 1,1 with the GeForce 8800 GT...would the new Mini be faster or slower than what I already have?
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